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FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 1:57:09 AM   
MsMacComb


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Not implying that one has to be directly related to the other, nor that subs, switches and anyone in between is negated, but whats up with this and what seems to be a serious bout of apathy on the part of all women?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060425/news_1n25careers.html 

Also factor in the diminished level of healthcare for women.
The efforts at controlling choice of reproductive rights.
The fact that we are not allowed to go topless in public.
That in N.C., Texas etc, they wish to take our dildos away.
The still existing glass ceiling.
That we are charged more for clothes and hair care than men do.

We are making headway in the numbers in college admittance (actually have surpassed men) but what good is it (to a point) with 33 cents less per dollar in wages?

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 3:46:40 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

Not implying that one has to be directly related to the other, nor that subs, switches and anyone in between is negated, but whats up with this and what seems to be a serious bout of apathy on the part of all women?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060425/news_1n25careers.html 

Also factor in the diminished level of healthcare for women. Do you mean diminished health care for people in general, or are you saying doctors/hospitals/government are targeting and removing care just for women?

The efforts at controlling choice of reproductive rights. If you mean abortion, yes, many men and women feel it is the taking of a life and act accordingly.

The fact that we are not allowed to go topless in public. I agree with you totally on this *grins*.... all kidding aside, it isn't fair.

That in N.C., Texas etc, they wish to take our dildos away. And men's toys too. It's not a gender thing.

The still existing glass ceiling. It exists in some places, not in others. The women in my office make more than I do due to seniority, not quality or quanity of work.

That we are charged more for clothes and hair care than men do. This is usually done by women.... and ya'll usually have more hair to work on. As for clothing....women seem more willing to pay more, so the market will respond to that, it seems.

We are making headway in the numbers in college admittance (actually have surpassed men) but what good is it (to a point) with 33 cents less per dollar in wages? As alluded to above, equal (or higher) pay based on quality and quanity should be the way, life is imperfect though.

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 4:00:18 AM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Do you mean diminished health care for people in general, or are you saying doctors/hospitals/government are targeting and removing care just for women?

 I will refer you to another thread.
 http://www.collarchat.com/%22The_New_Lies_About_Women%27s_Health%22/m_355154/tm.htm 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you mean abortion, yes, many men and women feel it is the taking of a life and act accordingly. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Indeed. South Dakotas new law makes it so that a rapist (or incest) means that the father has visitation rights. 
This would be a trend that other states wish to follow. Incest, rape, makes no difference, woman have no options for an abortion unless a doctor says its required to save the mothers life.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with you totally on this *grins*.... all kidding aside, it isn't fair. 

 Pervert.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
It exists in some places, not in others. The women in my office make more than I do due to seniority, not quality or quanity of work. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Or maybe they are smarter and more efficient than you.  


As alluded to above, equal (or higher) pay based on quality and quanity should be the way, life is imperfect though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Yes, this is what we should be trying to remedy right?


< Message edited by MsMacComb -- 5/4/2006 4:02:17 AM >


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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 4:16:48 AM   
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quote:

Indeed. South Dakotas new law makes it so that a rapist (or incest) means that the father has visitation rights. 
This would be a trend that other states wish to follow. Incest, rape, makes no difference, woman have no options for an abortion unless a doctor says its required to save the mothers life.


The thought of "visitation rights " for rapists or those performing incest (which are rapists too, I know) is horrific. I generally support the pro-life stance when looking at "convenience" abortions, which make up the majority of them... I don't like the idea of abortions in rape/incest situations, but I understand them.
 
quote:

The women in my office make more than I do due to seniority, not quality or quanity of work. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Or maybe they are smarter and more efficient than you.  


 
Noooooo lol.... there are two there. One woman is just as smart as me, and can do her job as well, if not better, than me, but she very very seldom does. She spends a fair amount of time outside smoking, or reading the newspaper, or doing her bills. The other........I can outdo with minimal effort... and she will be gone if and when I become Chief High Muckity Muck lol....
 
And yes, trying to remedy life's flaws is a good thing.
 
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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 4:55:21 AM   
Lashra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

Not implying that one has to be directly related to the other, nor that subs, switches and anyone in between is negated, but whats up with this and what seems to be a serious bout of apathy on the part of all women?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060425/news_1n25careers.html 

Also factor in the diminished level of healthcare for women.-I think healthcare is a big issue that needs to be addressed in this country (USA) so many people cannot get healthcare because they don't have insurance. Now addressing the issue of healthcare for women, I honestly think sometimes we are still seen as second class citizens. I refuse to go to male doctors anymore because I had too many misdiagnosis and some were just plain rude with no bedside manner.
The efforts at controlling choice of reproductive rights.-As far as I'm concerned a woman has a right to do with her own body as she thinks best. NO law, religion or state has the right to tell her otherwise. Alot of men don't want the responsibility of  a child, so I believe the chances of alot of them stepping in to stop her is low. If the pro-lifers wish to adopt all these children, then more power to them. You can push birth control all you want but the truth is not everyone is going to use it all the time and accidents DO happen. Also if they are going to punish women by forcing them to bare children they do not want, why not make the Fathers of these children have vasectomies? They deserve some form of punishment as well.
The fact that we are not allowed to go topless in public.- I personally don't want to and I hate it when guys dont wear their shirts. I dont want to see their hairy manboobies or their ribs sticking thru.
That in N.C., Texas etc, they wish to take our dildos away.-The bible belt is the problem here and the men are probably jealous that they aren't so well endowed
The still existing glass ceiling.
That we are charged more for clothes and hair care than men do. -We do usually have longer hair and for alot of women its because their male mates desire it to be so. I personally keep mine long because I prefer it that way. As far as clothes go, I honestly wear alot of men's pants,shoes,coats, sometimes a tshirt. Because they are cheaper and who can tell the difference?

We are making headway in the numbers in college admittance (actually have surpassed men) but what good is it (to a point) with 33 cents less per dollar in wages?-If we get more girls into math, science and engineering you will see this change over time. As women put themselves in a better positions of power the difference will close.

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 5:17:46 PM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra. Also if they are going to punish women by forcing them to bare children they do not want, why not make the Fathers of these children have vasectomies? They deserve some form of punishment as well.
 


You know thats something I wondered about with the new South Dakota law (assuming its upheld). If the mother doesnt want the child, the law says she can't abort, is she in a sense "owned" by the state? If so, are they going to pay for her and the childs living expenses?

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 6:07:23 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

You know thats something I wondered about with the new South Dakota law (assuming its upheld). If the mother doesnt want the child, the law says she can't abort, is she in a sense "owned" by the state? If so, are they going to pay for her and the childs living expenses?


There will be "back room" abortions, and there will be many more children given up for adoption. I think alot of people also hope there will be an increase in responsibility and common sense.... And there will be problems and tragedies.
 
I don't have a magic cure-all for any of life's ills, abortion included. But it would help if society/government put a serious effort into sex education and birth control, and if individuals of both sexes would think before acting, meaning keep your fucking pants up and dresses down if you aren't protected, or ready to be a parent emotionally and financially.
 
I don't want to pay to raise your kids, and I don't want to see unborn children killed because the mother and/or father doesn't want them.
 
Solutions, anyone?


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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 6:39:39 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I don't want to pay to raise your kids, and I don't want to see unborn children killed because the mother and/or father doesn't want them.
 
Solutions, anyone?
How about you (generic you ) keep your nose out of my business, ESPECIALLY as you are saying you want nothing to do with raising my kid?
I dislike abortion as birth control, but I hate seeing youngins suffer much more than I lose sleep over who is visiting family planing clinics.   My standard reply to pro lifers is something I heard a comedian say some years back :  "how about you get out of my way and stop telling me what to do with my body, until after you've taken care of all the f****** born."

As for feeling apathetic toward women's rights MsMacComb, I don't really...   I work on making myself better able to survive every day, and do what I can to help inform women (young and old) around me every day.   I'm not even a little bit surprised by the political trend/direction of the past several years;   I felt intensely about these issues before the last 2 presidential/other elections.   Since aproximately half of the nation was too lazy to get off their asses and go vote, I figure they deserve whatever gets shoved down our throats by the folks who actually got up in greater numbers and participated in choosing the future.     M

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 7:00:49 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I don't want to pay to raise your kids, and I don't want to see unborn children killed because the mother and/or father doesn't want them.
 
Solutions, anyone?
How about you (generic you ) keep your nose out of my business, ESPECIALLY as you are saying you want nothing to do with raising my kid?
I dislike abortion as birth control, but I hate seeing youngins suffer much more than I lose sleep over who is visiting family planing clinics.   My standard reply to pro lifers is something I heard a comedian say some years back :  "how about you get out of my way and stop telling me what to do with my body, until after you've taken care of all the f****** born."

M


I saw you had responded and thought, "ut oh" *grins*.......M, I hate to see kids suffer too, but I can't give abortion an "ok" just because it may keep some from that. And even though I don't want to raise anyone else's kids, we both know there's no getting around it....I certainly wouldn't let a child starve or go without medical care.
 
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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 10:59:51 PM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
As for feeling apathetic toward women's rights MsMacComb, I don't really...   I work on making myself better able to survive every day, and do what I can to help inform women (young and old) around me every day.   I'm not even a little bit surprised by the political trend/direction of the past several years;   I felt intensely about these issues before the last 2 presidential/other elections.   Since aproximately half of the nation was too lazy to get off their asses and go vote, I figure they deserve whatever gets shoved down our throats by the folks who actually got up in greater numbers and participated in choosing the future.     M
 

Hardcore far right religious wingnuts:
Fight for the rights of an unborn child.
Cut spending on services for said child.
Deny assistance to said childs impoverished single mother.
Hack up "no child left behind", so child gets left behind.
Cut programs for mentals and physical health for said disadvantaged child to build bridges to nowhere.
Deny counseling for said child when he gets into trouble as a teen.
Refuse to spend money for diagnosis and treatment when said *child* displays symptoms of bi-polar etc.
Take hardass attitude towards treatment and assistance when said *child* gets out on parole after more serious crime.
Ignores said *child* when he is homeless and desperately needing mental health and other assistance.
Gets "tough on crime" when said 24 year old *child* commits murder due to deperation and voices in head.
Executes said *child* for his crimes.
Go to church (ignore 90% of scripture especially the 6th commandment, thou shall not kill) and pat self on back for compassionate conservatism and "family values".
Get up following morning and fight for the rights of unborn child (then repeat process again and again and again).
Makes no sense to me.

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/4/2006 11:10:55 PM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


I don't have a magic cure-all for any of life's ills, abortion included. But it would help if society/government put a serious effort into sex education and birth control, and if individuals of both sexes would think before acting, meaning keep your fucking pants up and dresses down if you aren't protected, or ready to be a parent emotionally and financially.
 Solutions, anyone?
 

Just like you said. Education and options. But right now the only official agenda is abstinence. Which doesnt work, never has and never will. Something about teens and young people and hormones or something. You would think they'd figure that out. This hormone thing has been around for a few years I think.
Now you have druggists not only refusing to sell the morning after pill, period, but also condoms, and birth control to minors and legislators backing this up or instigating it. Theres no end to the stupidity.

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 3:00:57 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


I don't have a magic cure-all for any of life's ills, abortion included. But it would help if society/government put a serious effort into sex education and birth control, and if individuals of both sexes would think before acting, meaning keep your fucking pants up and dresses down if you aren't protected, or ready to be a parent emotionally and financially.
 Solutions, anyone?
 

Just like you said. Education and options. But right now the only official agenda is abstinence. Which doesnt work, never has and never will. Something about teens and young people and hormones or something. You would think they'd figure that out. This hormone thing has been around for a few years I think.
Now you have druggists not only refusing to sell the morning after pill, period, but also condoms, and birth control to minors and legislators backing this up or instigating it. Theres no end to the stupidity.


Teaching abstinence is fine, but you're right in that it isn't a solution by itself. I think the kids also need to be taught, in graphic terms, the consequences of abortion, and sexually transmitted diseases, and no one should be unable to get birth control devices. As for the morning-after pill.... I really don't know enough about it to give constructive comments, but being pro-life, I'm not sure if I could support its use. I hope the catholic church gets onboard as regards birth control someday, that would help........

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 3:23:02 AM   
MsMacComb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Teaching abstinence is fine, but you're right in that it isn't a solution by itself. I think the kids also need to be taught, in graphic terms, the consequences of abortion, and sexually transmitted diseases, and no one should be unable to get birth control devices. As for the morning-after pill.... I really don't know enough about it to give constructive comments, but being pro-life, I'm not sure if I could support its use. I hope the catholic church gets onboard as regards birth control someday, that would help........
 

I'm pro life as well but don't think the federal government should be the one to decide what women can do with our bodies.
Link about the "success" rate of Bush's abstinence only program in Ohio. I first saw this on the news months and months ago.
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=32408

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 4:02:32 AM   
Dustyn


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Perhaps if American adoption were able to be followed without being a contortionist, it would help a bit... perhaps a bit of self responsibility... and hey, it's the woman's body to do with as she sees fit...

As I have always said, usually through a hail of flaming and thrown objects:

"If it is alive, let's just cut the cord and see what happens.  If it can live without medical help, then hey, it's alive and I'll admit it loudly and proudly, but if it doesn't, I expect you to do the same for me."

So far, no one has been willing to take me up on that... *sigh*

- Dustyn


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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 4:14:01 AM   
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I say this respectfully..... to me, and others, it is not just about the woman's body...... there is another life involved.
 
If you believed the life of a child was in danger, what would you do? Ignore it?
 
I understand how a woman doesn't want the government to tell them what to do with their body... I hate being told what to do, and when government butts in too far.... and pregnancy is so personal..... but again, some feel there are two involved, not just one.
 
When does it stop being ok to abort? How far along?

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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 5:01:32 AM   
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"When does it stop being ok to abort? How far along?"

Very simple.  When the fetus is developed to the point that it is possible for the internal systems to operate independant of the mother's.  Last I knew, this was feasable no earlier than roughly 22 weeks, give or take a week for individuality in genetic structures and what not...

So I'd say anything up to about 20 weeks.

"If you believed the life of a child was in danger, what would you do? Ignore it?"

Well, if it's out of the womb, then I'd do something about the situation.  If it's not, then it's up to the woman.  When I can get pregnant, I'll consider myself a viable person to hold more than just an opinion, but since I have a penis, I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon.  I consider the reverse of the situation, and I sure as HELL don't want some yutz 5 states away showing up in my town, brow beating me for my own, personal choice.

- Dustyn


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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 5:11:12 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

"When does it stop being ok to abort? How far along?"

Very simple.  When the fetus is developed to the point that it is possible for the internal systems to operate independant of the mother's.  Last I knew, this was feasable no earlier than roughly 22 weeks, give or take a week for individuality in genetic structures and what not...

So I'd say anything up to about 20 weeks.

"If you believed the life of a child was in danger, what would you do? Ignore it?"

Well, if it's out of the womb, then I'd do something about the situation.  If it's not, then it's up to the woman.  When I can get pregnant, I'll consider myself a viable person to hold more than just an opinion, but since I have a penis, I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon.  I consider the reverse of the situation, and I sure as HELL don't want some yutz 5 states away showing up in my town, brow beating me for my own, personal choice.

- Dustyn



So, after 20 weeks or thereabouts, it's not ok to abort, but a woman should still have the right to do so?
 
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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 8:34:29 AM   
Vendaval


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I personally know 3 families who have had to make very difficult decisions in regards
to abortion.  I believe it is a matter between the woman, her family and her physicians.
 
#1 The daughter of one of my friends, a young woman in her 20's at the time,
     was pregnant for the first time and went to the hospital for the ultra-sound.
     Something did not look quite right. The doctors had her go to another hospital
     with better equipment.  The new tests revealed that the fetus had no back skull,
     the brain was exposed and it was impossible for the fetus to survive outside
     of the womb.  They made a very personal and painful decision to abort.
 
#2 A married couple I know had 1 healthy child.  The tests during the next
    pregnancy showed severe defects in the fetus, spina bifada to be precise.
    They made a very personal and painful decision to abort.

#3 Another family, a good Catholic family to be precise, had an unplanned
    pregnancy.  They already had children and after the last birth the woman
    had her tubes tied.  Well, she ended up being that one in a million or so
   statistic where she did become pregnant again, in her tubes.  In order to
   save her life, an emergency abortion was performed.
 
   All three of these situations required very personal and painful decisions
   on the part of the women and their families. 
 
   Regards,
 
   Vendaval


 

 

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 5/5/2006 8:35:15 AM >


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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 4:26:53 PM   
Vendaval


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Information on Emergency Contraception, also known as the morning after pill.
 
"Emergency Contraception, The Basics"
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/ec/pub-emergency-contraception.xml

http://www.4woman.gov/faq/econtracep.htm
U.S. Department of Health & Human Servicees
womenshealth.gov
The Federal Government Source for Women's Health Information

http://ec.princeton.edu/
Not-2-Late.com
The Emergendcy Contraception Webstie

Regards,
 
Vendaval


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Teaching abstinence is fine, but you're right in that it isn't a solution by itself. I think the kids also need to be taught, in graphic terms, the consequences of abortion, and sexually transmitted diseases, and no one should be unable to get birth control devices. As for the morning-after pill.... I really don't know enough about it to give constructive comments, but being pro-life, I'm not sure if I could support its use. I hope the catholic church gets onboard as regards birth control someday, that would help........


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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: FemDoms and Feminism. - 5/5/2006 4:34:24 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I personally know 3 families who have had to make very difficult decisions in regards
to abortion.  I believe it is a matter between the woman, her family and her physicians.
 
#1 The daughter of one of my friends, a young woman in her 20's at the time,
     was pregnant for the first time and went to the hospital for the ultra-sound.
     Something did not look quite right. The doctors had her go to another hospital
     with better equipment.  The new tests revealed that the fetus had no back skull,
     the brain was exposed and it was impossible for the fetus to survive outside
     of the womb.  They made a very personal and painful decision to abort.
 
#2 A married couple I know had 1 healthy child.  The tests during the next
    pregnancy showed severe defects in the fetus, spina bifada to be precise.
    They made a very personal and painful decision to abort.

#3 Another family, a good Catholic family to be precise, had an unplanned
    pregnancy.  They already had children and after the last birth the woman
    had her tubes tied.  Well, she ended up being that one in a million or so
   statistic where she did become pregnant again, in her tubes.  In order to
   save her life, an emergency abortion was performed.
 
   All three of these situations required very personal and painful decisions
   on the part of the women and their families. 
 
   Regards,
 
   Vendaval 


There certainly are situations where abortions are needed, to save the mother's life is a good example. I don't envy anyone that finds themselves in such hardship.
 

"According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of the nation’s leading abortion provider, Planned Parenthood:

At current rates, an estimated 43 percent of American women will have at least one abortion by the age of 45.
  • Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.
  • Fifty-two percent of U.S. women having abortions are younger than 25 years old.
  • About 13,000 abortions each year are attributed to rape and incest—representing 1 percent of all abortions.3 "





      Social Reasons (given as primary reason)


           - Feels unready for responsibility
      21%

           - Feels she can't afford baby
      21%

           - Concern for how baby would change her life
      16%

           - Relationship problem
      12%

           - Feels she isn't mature enough
      11%

           - Has all the children she wants
      8%

           - Other reasons
      4-5%




         TOTAL:
      93%


      "Hard Cases" (given as primary reason)



           - Mother's Health
      3%

           - Baby may have health problem
      3%

           - Rape or Incest
      1%




       
        TOTAL:




      7%



      Source:  Aida Torres and J.D. Forrest, "Why Do Women Have Abortions?"
      Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 20 No. 4 (July/August 1988) p. 170.
       
      According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, there has been nearly 40,000,000 abortions in the United States from 1973 through 1998. If the above cited statistics are correct, that means over 37,000,000 were for "convience".
      -------------------
      Week 3

      At this point, the blastocyst, or developing embryo, is looking for a spot to implant in the uterus.  Early formation of the central nervous system, backbone, and spinal column has begun.  The gastrointestinal system has also begun to develop with the kidneys, liver, and intestines forming.  The heart has begun to form. 

      Week 5

      The embryo’s tiny heart begins to beat by day twenty-one.  The brain has developed into 5 areas and some cranial nerves are visible.  Arm and leg buds are visible and the formation of the eyes, lips, and nose has begun.  The spinal cord grows faster than the rest of the body giving a tail like appearance which disappears as the embryo continues to grow.  The placenta begins to provide nourishment for the embryo.   

      Week 7

      Major organs have all begun to form.  The embryo has developed its own blood type, unique from the mother’s.  Hair follicles and nipples form and knees and elbows are visible.  Facial features are also observable.  The eyes have a retina and lens.  The major muscle system is developed and the embryo is able to move.

      Weeks 9-12

      The heart is almost completely developed and the heart rate can be heard on a Doppler machine at the doctor’s office.  Most major organs and tissues have developed and red blood cells are now produced in the liver.  The face is well formed and the eyes are almost fully developed.  The eyelids will close and not reopen until the 28th week.  Arms, hands, fingers, legs, feet, and toes are fully formed.  Nails and earlobes start to form and tooth buds develop in the gums.  Fetus can make a fist with its finger.  Testosterone (male sex hormone) is produced by the testes in male fetus. 

      And so on. For anyone wishing to see images of the fetal development spoken about above, here are a couple of many links:  http://www.wprc.org/trimester1.phtml   or http://www.realalternatives.org/pregnant/fetaldevelopment.htm




      < Message edited by Level -- 5/5/2006 4:36:18 PM >

      (in reply to Vendaval)
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