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Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 1:43:04 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
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Status: offline 		that the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't do "something" about Libya (or other political hotspots right now)?

Listening to the BBC overnight and NPR during the day, they have reported on both attitudes from people interviewed.

There are those who say we should enforce a no fly zone. Don't they realize only the threat of force would make that effective? We can't afford the conflicts we are in now. We can't afford our domestic policies!

We are being slammed for not being forceful enough. When Obama says our sympathies are with the protestors, we are accused of not doing enough.

What the heck? We're imperialistic interlopers if we do anything, and we're do-nothings if we don't go in full bore, guns blazing. We're mighty damn convenient for other "first-world" countries to point a finger at.

I know once this is posted, content can't be guaranteed, but please let's not devolve into right and left sniping (please, with sugar on top??).

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 1:48:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		America is somebody's whipping post on every issue....can't spend your whole life annoyed!

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 1:55:00 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Not Just the US...Ghadaffi (however he is spelling it today) got into everyones "good side" for the past few years. US< the UK, Canada and much of europe.
Personally I thought it was a matter of time before the worm turned
Getting more troops in harms way is the last thing should be discussed
its just asking for trouble on so many fronts, and no one can afford it.
Get the Citizens of the friendlies out safely, use diplomacy but bombing the hell out of the region isnt gonna do any good.
Not just the US is out on a limb here, not just to blame, this is one that should be taken collectively



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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 1:59:00 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		If the reports of him using jet fighters are true we should impose a no fly zone. It would be easy and cheap. Be great, if our allies and partners would help pay the costs, but we are pretty much used to them not.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 2:16:28 PM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline 		Actually, I thought you did a pretty good job with the original.  I think we have similar thoughts on the matter.  No course of action or lack of action will be 'right'. 

I'm going to wish you the best of luck on your topic, though.  You might just need it.


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 2:27:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Personally I thought it was a matter of time before the worm turned



This doesnt mean what you apparently think it does.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 3:08:59 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		I am sure some conservative talking head is going to promote the idea that we should send in the military.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 4:28:17 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		LadyP, Thank you!


Can we just talk about what is within the scope of what we can/can't, should or should not do, without slamming political parties?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 4:43:28 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		hlen you are correct, America and the UK are in the same boat. The one difficutly is that there are some places we shouldnt get involved in and some we should. At times, and I mean recent history, both the UK and US have been guilty of foreign policy not being equal to whats right and wrong. This results in getting stick from both sides of the argument.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 5:49:41 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		hlen, I'm not reading all the replies. I have one thing to say and it's about expressive of my attitude that we should've let them people alone.

The skeletons are escaping the closet.

Who did what first ? Who needs the oil for drinking water apparently ? Who has been trying to influence the area in their favor using the force of government for private gains for well over fifty years ?

That would be those with the skeletons in the closet.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 6:09:35 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

If the reports of him using jet fighters are true we should impose a no fly zone. It would be easy and cheap. Be great, if our allies and partners would help pay the costs, but we are pretty much used to them not.

Easy n cheap?

If a carrier battle group with aorund the clock air cover is easy n cheap wtf do you call expensive?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 6:11:53 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		The US government should do nothing in the middle east, bring all US troops home, and spend our tax dollars on us, the American people!!

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 6:26:27 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		I think it's just the internal media trying to scrutinse our governments actions, I don't reckon people in Denmark, or Japan, or wherever....are thinking 'why doesn't the UK/USA do something?'....although with Egypt in particular there was a 'why did usa do that' when mubarak was the bad guy of the hour....but in general I don't think the 'damned either way' thing actually exists.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 7:27:18 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		The policy for UK/US should be same as it is any other time, and any other country. If UK/US get involved with this round of disturbances, people might well ask, why there and not here, for the middle east is not the only place in the world where dictators rule with an iron fist.

My personal thoughts, UK/US, keep the fuck out of it, no more meddling, coz if it goes wrong, which it always does in some shape or form, it is the UK/US citiizens that get the reprisals, not the politicians and military..


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 7:55:14 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

hlen, I'm not reading all the replies. I have one thing to say and it's about expressive of my attitude that we should've let them people alone.

The skeletons are escaping the closet.

Who did what first ? Who needs the oil for drinking water apparently ? Who has been trying to influence the area in their favor using the force of government for private gains for well over fifty years ?

That would be those with the skeletons in the closet.

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Are you saying the chickens are coming home to roost? Do you think if we have been interfering with other countries' governance (and I agree) it's our obligatin to help them out?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 8:59:29 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Hlen5, I agree, what the hell does Libya have to do with the U.S.?
Let them take care of their own problems.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/24/2011 9:02:53 PM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		The West is caught on a hook of its own making. A long history of complicity with dictators and autocrats and support for Israel has made the West anathema in the Arab world. So any ground forces are out of the question.

There doesn't appear to me to be any reason why a no-fly zone can be instituted. Led by NATO, and with the consent/involvement of neighbouring governments, it would offer the poor Libyans fighting for freedom some relief from Ghaddafi's butchers.

One thing we all can do is educate ourselves about the Middle East and the Arab world. Judging by some of the posts I see, there is a definite need for it.

IMHO there's no better place to start than Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilisation" (Harper Collins, London 2005). Fisk is a legendary award-winning Middle East correspondent for leading UK paper "The Independent", Beirut resident for 35 odd years, fluent Arabic speaker and probably best known as the only Western journalist to interview Osama bin Lost.

His book covers over a century of Western involvement (interference?) in the Arab world and Iran. Factual, comprehensive, easy to read and passionate - highly recommended!

When the current turmoil settles down eventually, the West is going to have to devise new ways of dealing with a resurgent Arab world. Knowing our history and acquainting ourselves with the Arab world will enable us to make better decisions and policies than we have in the past.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/24/2011 9:06:04 PM >

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 12:10:59 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"Do you think if we have been interfering with other countries' governance (and I agree) it's our obligatin to help them out? "

What do you mean if ? You know damn well that we started the whole thing. Now should we finish it ? That is a good question.

What happened to the USSR ? They could no longer exercise control, their money had run out. It really is all about money. Money begets power, the power is used to beget more money. For five thousand years.

We are at the end of a cycle in history, think about it. Everybody owes everybody. Instead of paying up they chose to form alliances. No problem, just watch it. The whole idea of this country was to get away from that shit. That is where we are supposwed to stand, not where we are now.

But to just fuck half the world up and walk away ? That's an interesting point. It wouldn't be nice. But then again if they keep doing fuzzy math on the numbers, we won't be able to afford anything. And don't let anyone tell you it is on one side of the aisle or the other. They are all the same. Their kids get deferrments, they got them too, or assigned to some low risk duty. How many were actual grunts, ground forces ? I actually liked Bush 1, but he was a pushbutton hero.

Yes, an exhalted pilot. A guy that flies over a house or building with people in it and pushes the buttom at exactly the right time. And then flies to the nearest friendly base. Much more of a hero than the grunts living in mud with everyone trying to kill them, eating MREs and shitting in the woods. It's clear who are the heroes, and it's clear that people go through life with blinders on.

But the world is just fine.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 12:30:24 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am sure some conservative talking head is going to promote the idea that we should send in the military.


and who is the first one to instigate left right sniping


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 12:35:59 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

hlen, I'm not reading all the replies. I have one thing to say and it's about expressive of my attitude that we should've let them people alone.

The skeletons are escaping the closet.

Who did what first ? Who needs the oil for drinking water apparently ? Who has been trying to influence the area in their favor using the force of government for private gains for well over fifty years ?

That would be those with the skeletons in the closet.

T^T


Are you saying the chickens are coming home to roost? Do you think if we have been interfering with other countries' governance (and I agree) it's our obligatin to help them out?



I will tell you all a long forgotten little golden nugget about the world.

go to google books and look up the east india company.

How they go in and create nations. (including ours)

when you take over countries by conquest there are rules, and yes you accept liabilities or at least should have.

chickens coming home to roost!

cant think of a better way to say it.



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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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