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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 1:13:00 AM   
hlen5


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When you say we started it all, how far back are you going? Are you talking about propping up Mubarek for decades or are you implying we agitated for Egypt's revolution (even though the current upheaval in the Mid-East started in Tunisia)?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 1:16:51 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Do you think if we have been interfering with other countries' governance (and I agree) it's our obligatin to help them out? "

What do you mean if ? You know damn well that we started the whole thing. Now should we finish it ? That is a good question. ............



I guess I should have said "since" instead of "if"!!


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 1:36:20 AM   
Jaybeee


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I doubt the government of 300 million people will alter it's foreign policy based on the confusion of one female citizen. But it's not a good idea to interfere, look how many soldiers you lost in Afghanistan.

:)

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 2:42:30 AM   
tweakabelle


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Here's an interesting perspective on the history of US-Egypt relations. According to this view, it has little to do with Egyptian or American welfare.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/egyptrev.html

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 2:45:22 AM   
luckydawg


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Yes, Egypt is a monster for making peace with Israel.

At least the Rape while screaming Jew Jew makes sense, in that view point.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 2:58:34 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

If the reports of him using jet fighters are true we should impose a no fly zone. It would be easy and cheap. Be great, if our allies and partners would help pay the costs, but we are pretty much used to them not.


Do you have any idea what it costs (in money, I won't get into the political aspect) every time some zoomie yells "Fox Three" into his radio mike?


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 3:42:52 AM   
luckydawg


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if he is bombing his own people, it is worth taking the air from him.

What does it cost exactly?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 4:18:51 AM   
Aneirin


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People of any country aren't the problem, it's the wankers in charge, and anyone in power does not, contrary to what they say, give it up.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 7:55:47 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Here's an interesting perspective on the history of US-Egypt relations. According to this view, it has little to do with Egyptian or American welfare.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/egyptrev.html


Thank you for this link. Is If Americans Knew's sole focus the Palestine/Israel conflict?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 7:58:51 AM   
Moonhead


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It isn't quite the sole focus, but it is most of it.
I'd always thought that was a bit obvious, though: why else would the Arab countries all hate you so much?

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 8:06:35 AM   
hlen5


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They're not that fond of you all, either.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 8:09:43 AM   
mnottertail


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They had 1st Earl Haig, as well as Kipling, didn't they?



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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 8:28:54 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

if he is bombing his own people, it is worth taking the air from him.

What does it cost exactly?


$84,000 in 2007 dollars.  And if the call is "mayday," even assuming he gets a ride back sitting upright in the HH-60G instead of in a body bag, it gets a lot more expensive.  These damned people like Bush want us to spill our children's blood and country's money to make the world safe so people who don't know what a vote is can get a different dictator.  It's time for conservatives to run the country.  People who know the value of a dollar and have respect for the right of people to chose what they want rather than having it shoved down their throat.




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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 9:26:41 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Heck, John, that's just the cost of the missile. Dont forget the cost of fuel and maintenence for 2 jets (at least) the cost of fuel and operating costs for the aircraft carrier battle group. Salaries and upkeep for the thousands of sailors that keep that zoomie flying.

Every "Fox 3" can run to the hundreds of millions.

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 9:34:49 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Heck, John, that's just the cost of the missile. Dont forget the cost of fuel and maintenence for 2 jets (at least) the cost of fuel and operating costs for the aircraft carrier battle group. Salaries and upkeep for the thousands of sailors that keep that zoomie flying.

Every "Fox 3" can run to the hundreds of millions.


Hell, I was just giving him the "low" end of the deal.  He could argue that the ship and plane had to be somewhere although combat cycle is a lot more expensive than peacetime training.  But, that AIM is GONE and all the cash with it.

It's time someone took a look at the checkbook.


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 10:26:24 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

LadyP, Thank you!


Can we just talk about what is within the scope of what we can/can't, should or should not do, without slamming political parties?

It seems to be going pretty good so far. 

I do think we need to start looking at it from the can/can't point of view.  What's honestly feasible and what's really practical?  If we're going to look at should/shouldn't, we might want to do that from our own perspective, rather than what other countries think.


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 11:24:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

that the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't do "something" about Libya (or other political hotspots right now)?

Listening to the BBC overnight and NPR during the day, they have reported on both attitudes from people interviewed.

There are those who say we should enforce a no fly zone. Don't they realize only the threat of force would make that effective? We can't afford the conflicts we are in now. We can't afford our domestic policies!

We are being slammed for not being forceful enough. When Obama says our sympathies are with the protestors, we are accused of not doing enough.

What the heck? We're imperialistic interlopers if we do anything, and we're do-nothings if we don't go in full bore, guns blazing. We're mighty damn convenient for other "first-world" countries to point a finger at.

I know once this is posted, content can't be guaranteed, but please let's not devolve into right and left sniping (please, with sugar on top??).


Hlen, depsite what you may think based on the few English who post on here (and it's fair to say most tow the line because human beings like to be part of the group), about 99.9% of people in this country couldn't care less what you do and couldn't tell New York from Alabama on a map. A few wry smiles as the self-proclaimed freedom country (not the only one by the way, you can put Britain and France in that bracket, too) runs amok around the world, granted, but all in all you're not really on the radar - France has been the object of our attention for hundreds of years and will continue to be our adversary for the forseeable future. And the wry smiles acknowledge that you're not doing anything that we haven't done - that's politics - more a case that you (as a country) seem more susceptible to actually believing the righteousness of the actions of your government and foreign policy.

You seem like a decent enough lot, but you ain't anywhere near as important as you'd like to think. You're not damned if you don't etc.

And, someone will put some links to some newspaper reports here and there, but these people have to write something in the international section. I would say that by and large you get a decent write up in this country - primarily for music and films. People in this country understand that what you're doing now has been done before by the English - the spread of liberal values around the world. I mean, you took the baton from us, so you ain't damned here. It's more a case that we know what we are; you seem to think you're something entirely different to what your actions suggest.


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 11:33:05 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It seems to be going pretty good so far. 

I do think we need to start looking at it from the can/can't point of view.  What's honestly feasible and what's really practical?  If we're going to look at should/shouldn't, we might want to do that from our own perspective, rather than what other countries think.



Agreed!

To chime in with what both you and NorthernGent said, "People (/the US?) wouldn't worry so much about what other people think of them if they realized how seldom others do."

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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 11:41:06 AM   
LaTigresse


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No I am not annoyed at all.

Regardless of all the faults in the US, we are a super power. We are a country that others look to in many ways.

On one hand we like the cool factor and power that gives us, but on the other hand (just as in life) that power comes with responsibilities......like it or not. There is the reality that with that Suuuuuuuuuuuper Power status comes some major headaches. I would venture to say that all quite often, we end up stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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RE: Is Anyone Else Annoyed.....? - 2/25/2011 11:51:16 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am sure some conservative talking head is going to promote the idea that we should send in the military.

It didn't take long. 7 posts into a thread in which the OP asked for some serious discussion about what could be done and what could not be done and someone from the left had to throw down the gauntlet.

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