RE: Why can 't we do this in the US?

RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 5:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: This is the melting pot. How do you like getting melted Exactly. And it's what gives our kids the best chance to thrive - we meet anybody on a more or less level field, and not so much inbreeding in most places. And the inbreeders are entitled to their chance, too, if they think it's their best shot. Hey, I'll melt Salma hayek any day. Melting pot is awesome. Salad bowl is what is happening.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 5:24:57 PM)
"And it's what gives our kids the best chance to thrive " Sure, if we gave them a decent education. T^T

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 6:52:21 PM)
quote: if we gave them a decent education. that's another topic. But we see what's going on in Wisconsin.

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 6:54:06 PM)
quote: Salad bowl is what is happening That is a product of US commercialism making us a crossroads. I don't see it as a bad thing, and I'm more sure that nobody would like the alternative.

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 6:59:39 PM)
quote: Most of them are Cuban too. Not American, Cuban. Miami PD says it only hires US citizens. http://www.miami-police.org/requirements.html

Hillwilliam -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 7:30:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: Most of them are Cuban too. Not American, Cuban. Miami PD says it only hires US citizens. http://www.miami-police.org/requirements.html I should have clarified. If you ask a non-English speaking 3rd generation US citizen who lives in Dade County, FL what his nationality is, a LARGE percentage will NOT say American. They will say Cuban. I'm sorry. If you dont even CLAIM to be American, much less have pride in that fact, get the fuck OUT. Not Cuban-American....Cuban. Period The CANF (Cuban American National Foundation) sees themselves as a government in exile. The only prob is that noone elected them. they will probably have a large role in post Castro cuba because they send millions of $ in contributions to congress. There is a saying in Hialeah that loosely translates as "Cubans shit in the melting pot" The graft and corruption of miami makes Chicago look like kindergarten. The place is basically a corrupt latin-American country When I told an acquaintance that it was apalling, he said and I QUOTE. "That's the way we do business in the old country" I told him that maybe that's why the old country is such a piece of shit he had to leave.

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 8:08:34 PM)
quote: should have clarified. Well, every ethnic group has its own issues, and of course the Cubans are basically here because they aren't commies. Never mind what else they may or may not be, they personified our fears of commies, and yeah, the cubans & congressmen alike have benefited. No so much Joe 6-pack. And the marielitos didn't help things either. And while we can see in retrospect that those fears were misplaced, it's also fair to say that a lot of that fear was the reasonable result of commie chest-thumping. I'm not so sure there will be a post-Castro Cuba. Things seem pretty stable, and they may have made arrangements for succession. I doubt that the commies will welcome back people they will see as carpetbaggers. But all politics is local, and FL is a swing state. So who knows? So tell me, how do you get along with the Haitians?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 8:49:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: should have clarified. So tell me, how do you get along with the Haitians? The ones I worked with when I was working thru college and grad school tended to get off the boat, find a relative to live with. 2 days later, they have a job and the next week, they are enrolled in a free English class. By the second generation, their attitude is "I'm not Hatian, Im an American" and they say it in fluent, near accentless English. What a concept eh?

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 8:59:24 PM)
quote: second generation, their attitude I don't think most Haitians have been around long enough for a 2nd generation. That said, my view is always that people should be dealt with, rewarded and punished, as individuals, and not collectively. The only weakness in that is of course people do work cooperatively, so it's as my father said, you need to be careful in choosing your friends.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 9:20:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: second generation, their attitude I don't think most Haitians have been around long enough for a 2nd generation. That said, my view is always that people should be dealt with, rewarded and punished, as individuals, and not collectively. The only weakness in that is of course people do work cooperatively, so it's as my father said, you need to be careful in choosing your friends. Check your history. The Hatian Exodus started in the 70's Assuming a teenager gets off the boat in 75, they could easily have American-born Grandkids. A friend from HS was in the coast guard doing interdiction in the early 80's during the height of the rafters from Cuba and Haiti. They picked em up in the straights of FL, divided em up, took the Hatians back to Port au Prince and brought the Cubans to miami. Thank you Ron Reagan. The claim was that the Hatians couldn't show they were opressed in their homeland. The fact, I suspect, was Cubans vote exclusively Republican and Reagan was in office at the time. The rumor was that when the Hatians were repatriated, they went into a warehouse for processing. The Ton Ton Macoutes (Duvalier's secret police) were waiting. A lot of them never came out of that warehouse alive.

kdsub -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 9:22:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yes all official documents should be in English... if needed or desired other translations could be provided... what is the big deal here? Then what would be special about the official language? quote: Don't you think bringing up the deaf is just a little far reaching? ASL isn't English quote: All police reports should be in English and how or why would a national language stop police from communicating in another language if necessary? Butch See my first response. quote: The US is not a nation state and multiculturalism is widely accepted: as long as a person makes living somehow, nobody cares about the language skills Domken I hate to argue with you we often agree but I think you are being unreasonable about this. There is nothing special... that is my point... to be a naturalized citizen you must show a rudimentary grasp of English so this law would not affect citizenship in any way. What it will do is assure all citizens in this nation will be schooled in English and there will be less discrimination against those citizens and immigrants with poor communication skills. English is just the majority language now… if it were Spanish I would say the same… it is not which language that is important just that there is a common language to allow all citizens to communicate. I also believe all school children in all school districts no matter their ethnic configuration should be taught in English as the primary language and I think the national language should guarantee this. A common language is not discrimination it is the opposite… It is an attempt to bring all people of different ethnic backgrounds together by communication. As for ALS I didn’t mention it you did… but it has nothing to do with this discussion that I can see. Butch

Edwynn -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/5/2011 11:48:45 PM)
What a question, and what a good introduction as to how the US keeps going downhill. It has apparently escaped your notice (along with 98% of other Americans, most painfully felt in US pedagogical "understandings") that almost every other country, even in far less developed lands, have at least one or two other languages as just an automatic part of their study. In my own university experience (at this late age) we have been flooded by Italians due to an economics department exchange program. They all speak English fairly well, some just a bit better than native speakers, (this as a product of a putatively "lesser" country, yet other languages are part of the program at early age, yet the US insists upon learning the English language, and this language only, and taught quite badly at that). These young Italians speak English as well as almost 1/3 of the other native born students here. Are you sure that you want to proceed in this vein, and add further to the embarrassment already in place? The instructive part here is that people who want to keep dragging this country down insist on the best methods for the process. Damn! we are good, aren't we?

Termyn8or -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 12:14:14 AM)
I've noticed that, but with exceptions. One from Russia, one from Poland and one from West Africa. All the others speak English better than most US citizens. One, with whom I had corresponded with while he was in Sweden, had exemplary spelling and grammar in text, then I spoke to him on the phone a few times and his diction was right up to spec. I also noticed that some immigrants or multilinguals go so far as to pronounce each letter in the word. Not only is it highly intelligible, they make it sound natural. For example they will say "pwerto rico" instead of the americanized "porter rico". Then I have one friend born and raised here who goes so far as to pronounce the "H" in words like who, where and when. It sounds natural, but he is not from another country. Well he does have an unusual background, and went to private school, but how it is he started doing that is still beyond me. It takes all kinds and....... Then there are others who do not speak well, no matter where they're born. All this aside, some countries require multiple languages. That doesn't mean they don't have a national language, but they don't want their people to be at the disadvantage we are. And we are. We of all societies, promoting this multiculturalism and free trade, hell we should know twelve languages before the ninth grade ! Why don't we ? And why can't we even seem to teach one language effectively ? We know why and it ain't pretty. We work against ourselves, we prey upon ourselves. We kill ourselves. And we seem to be enjoying every minute of it. T^T

jack8007 -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 12:15:42 AM)
quote: US insists upon learning the English language, and this language only Yeah, that's a subtext here, embarrassment that the vast majority of Americans speak only one language.

TotalDiscipline -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 12:29:26 AM)
That most smaller countries learn the language of their bigger brother is mostly economical. It is handy of course if you can. Makes visits to your neigbour countries way more eassier. I don't mind talking English and German ( I am from the Netherlands)..but what worries me is that once in a while people in my country want to swap our language completely for English. It seems they only can think in extremes. Either everything or nothing. But our language is already a mixture of French, GErman, English and Dutch. In time..there will be a whole new language

joether -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 3:59:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is nothing special... that is my point... to be a naturalized citizen you must show a rudimentary grasp of English so this law would not affect citizenship in any way. Last I checked, one does not need to show a rudimentary degree of American-English to become a US Citizen. In fact, one does not even need to learn American-English to live, work, and play in the USA. HOWEVER, learning the language of the land, would open doors previously barred from the individual. More job options, travel to different parts of the country, and even taking part in goverment (they pay taxes, why not be proactive in goverment?). Creating any sort of law, even an Amendment that demands that the offical language of the USA is English (or as we generally know it as, American-English), would be thrown out of court. 1st Amendment would trump the law in a heart beat. "Freedom of Speech", is generally a concept surprisingly not widely understood. I didn't write the laws, but that is how its understood. If you look to the true motive of the person(s) demanding that American-English be made the offical language, generally hold rather racist viewpoints towards groups of people that do not, as part of their culture and region (i.e. chinatown in Boston, MA), speak American-English. Its disguised on the idea, that it would reduce the cost to hire people to translate material from one to the other or vise versa. Again, 1st Amendment would trump any law that requires a US Citizen, a legal/illegal alien, diplomate, or any other person, found under the US Goverment, to speak only in American-English. If the SCOTUS voted 8-1 regarding the Westboro Baptists Church to protest at soldier's funerals....take a wild guess how they would vote on something as plainly obvious as limiting the 1st Amendment. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub English is just the majority language now… if it were Spanish I would say the same… it is not which language that is important just that there is a common language to allow all citizens to communicate. Venture to certain parts of the USA, and you'll find that American-English is not the majority language spoken. It would be like stating the only people that live in the USA, are direct decendants of Europe. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I also believe all school children in all school districts no matter their ethnic configuration should be taught in English as the primary language and I think the national language should guarantee this. I agree, but not for the reason(s) you discribe, but what I did, above. Their parents will teach them their native language without a doubt; but the schools will teach them English. In the end, the student is bi-lingual, which is a benefit to us as a whole in the nation. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub A common language is not discrimination it is the opposite… It is an attempt to bring all people of different ethnic backgrounds together by communication. Kind of like communism for languages? A common language has been shown not to reduce playground bullies anymore then not knowing it. But what if someone simply refuses to learn English? You going to threaten/force them to learn the language with stiff penalties? That is a case that will lose in court. You want a common language that EVERY person on this planet understands? Try music....

rulemylife -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 4:29:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Plenty of people born in the US can't speak English properly. Does that mean I'll start having to call chips crisps and fries chips?

TotalDiscipline -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 4:30:36 AM)
quote: You want a common language that EVERY person on this planet understands? Try music.... rappers don't like metal and vs. music is no winner either

rulemylife -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 4:34:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: US insists upon learning the English language, and this language only Yeah, that's a subtext here, embarrassment that the vast majority of Americans speak only one language. I speak Canadian, and it's a very difficult language to learn.

Moonhead -> RE: Why can 't we do this in the US? (3/6/2011 4:59:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 quote: language being effectively deader than latin I dunno - I hear a lot of 3rd worlders speaking French. Lot of Africans. Good point. I was forgetting there's a lot of Africans who speak French.

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