RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining

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Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:25:40 PM)
what is a state? what is a county? what is a city? collective bargaining power. :) (usually against its own constituency) 51% forces the 49% to do something they do not want to do!

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:29:45 PM)
If the teachers are already striking the kids are already without their precious education, so why not fire them and start from scratch. Giving in to the outrageous union demands has already led to unsustainable budgets and the brink of bankruptcy, so there is really no choice.

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:31:27 PM)
quote: Democrats can remain holdouts for that deal. What You Never Learned from Schoolhouse Rock [image]http://www.newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/cartoon_500/cartoons/stopabill.jpg[/image] Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/cartoons#ixzz1GAiDRTCI

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:31:29 PM)
Wouldnt you think part of his budget shortfall is his own fault?

TheHeretic -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EternalHoH you equate 'public servant' to 'slave of the taxpayer'. Here's some reading for you, Eterna. http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/12/class-war/singlepage

Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Although the Republicans believe they have scored a coup d'etats by passing the collective bargaining piece without the budget-requiring quorum, there really is nothing new that has happened in the balance of power. The deal has always been: accept the public-sector financial concessions in exchange for no change in the collective bargaining rights. Democrats can remain holdouts for that deal. Republicans would have to repeal what they passed, not much different than agreeing to the compromise before they passed it. In fact, they can make repeal a precondition to returning. Actually, the above is true. There were no financial changes in what they passed, no budget changes. What happened was Walker removed the financial part, and just went after the collective bargaining. It does nothing to help with the budget shortfall. a stale mate seems to still be in effect. that does not make sense either. in this state it only takes 4 people to be a quorum. they might mean equal suffrage? and what is so bad about that? the 14th amendment was passed without equal suffrage and no one seems to care about that?

kdsub -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:34:17 PM)
Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights? Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:35:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights? Butch we do not have teachers here. we have social indoctrination squads.

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:36:37 PM)
Now on that, Im not sure. I believed they were saying they had to have all republican senators in attendance, and at least one democrat, to have enough people to make a quorum. Under the Wisconsin state Constitution, each chamber of the legislature needs 3/5 of the members present for votes on budgetary matters. That means 20 Senators. Republicans have only 19.

EternalHoH -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:38:14 PM)
A couple of quotes from your link: "There was a time when government work offered lower salaries than comparable jobs in the private sector but more security and somewhat better benefits. These days, government workers fare better than private-sector workers in almost every area" "One would think that a “3 percent at 50” retirement would be a good enough deal for most people. Most workers in the private sector would probably jump at such an opportunity. But many public safety officials aren’t satisfied with a system that allows them to retire with 90 percent or more of their final year’s pay at young ages." You notice a theme here? The private sector got screwed out of similar perks by their corporate bosses, so now apparently its the public sector's turn. Its a pity party being held by the "new poor" of the private sector. They got the wrong enemy in their gun sights. Is it the public sector's fault that the private sector was first sold on the idea of a steak dinner that turned out to be a popcorn fart all along?

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:41:32 PM)
Unsustainable pay and benefit packages is a problem across the nation taz, Wisconsin isnt an anomaly. Look at Californias ongoing public unions disaster, for example. Its already driven california so deep into the hole that there may be no hope other than bankruptcy and starting over, cancelling pensions and the whole nine yards. Something has to give, before everything breaks. The standard Dem answer is raise taxes until every business goes broke and the last wealthy individual has left the state, but thats not a real solution. Cutting some of these outrageous compensation packages is.

Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:42:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Now on that, Im not sure. I believed they were saying they had to have all republican senators in attendance, and at least one democrat, to have enough people to make a quorum. Under the Wisconsin state Constitution, each chamber of the legislature needs 3/5 of the members present for votes on budgetary matters. That means 20 Senators. Republicans have only 19. Its just a fucking piece of paper! we also have ARTICLE 1 SECTION 14. All lands within the state are declared to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer term than fifteen years in which rent or service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of land, hereafter made, are declared to be void. allodial means NO PROPERTY TAXES and we ALL PAY PROPERTY TAXES! Its just a fucking piece of paper!

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:43:00 PM)
The likeliest scenario is that most of the teachers would go back to work in the same classroom they had abandoned. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights? Butch

kdsub -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:45:17 PM)
HERE is a good link to read... it is one of many that will confirm its facts. Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:47:38 PM)
yeh instead of doing it right and abolishing the public indoctrination system altogether quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The likeliest scenario is that most of the teachers would likely go back to work in the same classroom they had abandoned. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights? Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:47:38 PM)
140 million in tax cuts... without a way to make up the shortfall they were already projecting. Not very fiscally sound to me.

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:49:37 PM)
quote: Its just a fucking piece of paper! If that were true, then why didnt they just vote without the last person? Why not have all the republican senators vote on it and pass it into law?

Brain -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:50:32 PM)
You wish! Well it's not going to be that easy. All of them Republicans are going to be recalled, especially Mr. Walker. And people in Wisconsin, hopefully the country, will not vote Republican for a generation. And you will have Gov. Walker to think it. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR Stalemate broken. They strike, they get fired, and the whole pension problem goes away. There are plenty of school districts that have laid off young teachers that would love a crack at those jobs, even if they do have to take a sustainable benefits package, and you can clear 20-40% deadwood out of any public works dept, anywhere, anytime. Most likely, the ones making the most noise will be coming from that group anyway. What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?

Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:50:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub HERE is a good link to read... it is one of many that will confirm its facts. Butch care to point out the FACTS? I did not see any

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:52:11 PM)
It is if youre trying to attract business and grow the economy, which that strategy beats the Dem alternative (driving out business and choking the economy) every time its tried. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl 140 million in tax cuts... without a way to make up the shortfall they were already projecting. Not very fiscally sound to me.

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