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Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions in ... - 3/12/2011 4:48:35 AM

Marini

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Okay, as/if the tsunami was not enough.

Now, explosions are rocking Japanese nuclear plants, 5 reactors are in 'PERIL".

Most of us have heard that man would surely destroy this world, if/WHEN that occurs, nuclear plants will probably be involved.

The coverage on the nuclear plants is easy to find, as Japan is being rocked to its core, I want to hear other people's thoughts on that so interesting technology we call "Nuclear Power Plants".

Don't all major developed countries have them?
With all the unrest breaking out here and there and everywhere it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that these sort of accidents, could happen elsewhere.

Chernobyl anyone?
Thoughts on nuclear plants?
Why do I hear Madonna's "Material girl" in my head and keep replacing it with the words "We are living in a Nuclear world?"

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/12/2011 4:57:49 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/12/2011 4:54:15 AM

JohnWarren

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All the reports I've seen said the plants all acted as they were designed. At loss of power they shut down. There was some minor venting but it wasn't a health risk.

Compare that to the death rate that coal causes both direct deaths and indirect from emissions. The same goes for oil. Look at what recently happened in the Gulf of Mexico.

Oh, and the fuel in a power plant cannot go critical. If you're looking for an explosion risk, LNG is a lot better candidate

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 3/12/2011 4:55:47 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/12/2011 4:55:10 AM

RapierFugue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thoughts on nuclear plants?

The problem is that, for as long as we're so heavily dependent on fossil fuels, and the cost of those is rising so much, there's currently no other viable option for developed countries with little or no natural resources.

Are they safe? Absolutely not. But they're pretty much the only way forward for countries like Japan (who generate a third of their electricity from nuclear sources). Renewable sources like wind and tidal aren't capable of generating more than a tiny proportion of what an industrialised nation needs, so people will have to get used to disasters like this, or massively reduce their consumption.

What makes the Japanese situation so interesting is that their nuclear industry is in private hands, and has an appalling record on both safety, and attempted cover-ups of accidents, so I wonder what the Japanese government will do when the dust finally settles (and stops glowing) ...

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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/12/2011 4:56:40 AM

RapierFugue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

All the reports I've seen said the plants all acted as they were designed. At loss of power they shut down. There was some minor venting but it wasn't a health risk.

I'd wait and see before saying "not a health risk", if I were you. Lots more will come to light in the coming weeks, and Japan's nuclear industry has a long and dark history of covering up bad news.

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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/12/2011 4:59:37 AM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

All the reports I've seen said the plants all acted as they were designed. At loss of power they shut down. There was some minor venting but it wasn't a health risk.

I'd wait and see before saying "not a health risk", if I were you. Lots more will come to light in the coming weeks, and Japan's nuclear industry has a long and dark history of covering up bad news.

This is my train of thought, at the VERY least.
And I do mean, VERY LEAST.

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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/12/2011 5:15:03 AM

DarkSteven

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Um, John, the reaction to create power IS a criticality, a controlled, sustained one.

Aside from that, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 5:37:53 AM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Okay, as/if the tsunami was not enough.

Now, explosions are rocking Japanese nuclear plants, 5 reactors are in 'PERIL".

Most of us have heard that man would surely destroy this world, if/WHEN that occurs, nuclear plants will probably be involved.

The coverage on the nuclear plants is easy to find, as Japan is being rocked to its core, I want to hear other people's thoughts on that so interesting technology we call "Nuclear Power Plants".

Don't all major developed countries have them?
With all the unrest breaking out here and there and everywhere it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that these sort of accidents, could happen elsewhere.

Chernobyl anyone?
Thoughts on nuclear plants?
Why do I hear Madonna's "Material girl" in my head and keep replacing it with the words "We are living in a Nuclear world?"

From what I have read, there has been one explosion, not multiple explosions.
According to reports, radiation levels at the plant where the explosion was have actually dropped in the area post explosion, after rising steadily. The reason for the explosion is yet unknown.

There was a fire at one plant and that has been extinguished.

Of course this is serious.
People in Chernobyl are still dying.

The issue also isn't that with the loss of power and them not shutting down as they are supposed to, the issue is that there needs to be enough water and it needs to circulate. The venting is causing a loss of water and the back-up batteries to keep the water circulating only last so long and... there may be some leakage in the structures.
Some of the containment stuctures are still solid enough it seems to contain the radiation fron the leaking and venting but that does not solve the issue of lowered water volume in the reactors.
They have been evacuating people to avoid health risks in the even a Chernobyl type accident occurs; they seem to think a 6 mile radius is sufficient.

As far as nuclear power goes, we are somewhat limited in our options for energy production.
This winter, instead of oil prices falling as they typically do, they rose.
We saw it in our gas stations and our home heating bills.
They are only expected to go up further this summer.

Mining for coal is not without human cost.
Oil rigs... well, we all know what damage they can do and it isn't damage that just goes away quickly.

I don't fault Japan for choosing an option that makes them less dependent on others.

Edit: clarity

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 3/12/2011 5:39:30 AM >

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 6:01:05 AM

DomKen

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Reports are that the reactor building exploded but that the reactor vessel did not. That is at odds with the detection of radioactive caesium and iodine near the reactors. Those isotopes are produced by the fission.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 6:03:17 AM

mnottertail

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Was that the plant they were having the cooling problem with trying to shut down the reactor I assume?

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 6:06:41 AM

DomKen

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Fukushimi Daiichi reactor is the one that had the explosion and was having coolant issues yesterday.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 6:11:22 AM

mnottertail

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the blow up makes sense then. and yeah, ain't a two by four in the roof cracking scenario then, it would make sense that there is a rupture of some sort.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 8:46:04 AM

Marini

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

[From what I have read, there has been one explosion, not multiple explosions.
According to reports, radiation levels at the plant where the explosion was have actually dropped in the area post explosion, after rising steadily. The reason for the explosion is yet unknown.

There was a fire at one plant and that has been extinguished.

Of course this is serious.
People in Chernobyl are still dying.

The issue also isn't that with the loss of power and them not shutting down as they are supposed to, the issue is that there needs to be enough water and it needs to circulate. The venting is causing a loss of water and the back-up batteries to keep the water circulating only last so long and... there may be some leakage in the structures.
Some of the containment stuctures are still solid enough it seems to contain the radiation fron the leaking and venting but that does not solve the issue of lowered water volume in the reactors.
They have been evacuating people to avoid health risks in the even a Chernobyl type accident occurs; they seem to think a 6 mile radius is sufficient.

As far as nuclear power goes, we are somewhat limited in our options for energy production.
This winter, instead of oil prices falling as they typically do, they rose.
We saw it in our gas stations and our home heating bills.
They are only expected to go up further this summer.

Mining for coal is not without human cost.
Oil rigs... well, we all know what damage they can do and it isn't damage that just goes away quickly.

I don't fault Japan for choosing an option that makes them less dependent on others.

Edit: clarity

Thank you for this well thought out and informative response.
I know very little on this subject, but when you wake up after 4 hours
sleep and start hearing words like "possible nuclear melt-down in Japan",
it is very alarming.

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/12/2011 8:47:06 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to angelikaJ)

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 9:40:55 AM

angelikaJ

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This seems to be the latest:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/

They are going to try to cool them with seawater and that may work but seems a bit iffy.
They have expanded the evacuation areas.

There is a lot more content.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 9:47:03 AM

Aneirin

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Beware the media in how they report anything, for they always tend to sensationalise everything they report on.

But nuclear power, to me it is a way to go, as lets face it, fossil fuels just have to go as it seems the fossil fuel dependent countries are now being held for ransom by those that produce the fuels. So, as a means of avoiding future conflict, fossil fuel dependent countries should be looking for a more viable energy source so that they can prosper, not fail or be dragged into war.

But of nuclear, where profit is the over riding aim, nuclear should not be in private company hands, as the only hands I will accept, is a nations hands, energy generated by a nation for a nation.

But of the earthquake that damaged these Japanese reactors, I am very surprised the resultant tsunami has not been more in the news, and I can only think of the Japanese people now after that disaster.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 10:01:40 AM

ashjor911

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For starter I think its Much power that Man can handel
Its so powerfull that even its wast has much power over Man kind....

Back in 1990 in the first gulf war the US forces use Ammunition with a littile of the (Depleted uranium) inside of it.
I remember watching CNN back then & how the one of the US Tanks was shooting on one Iraqi tank (Soviet made tank not iraqi made), & the iraqi tank was exploding after just 1 shot.
I am not talking about was right or wrong .... it was War & war has its own laws....
however, people which was living in the area of the Battle zone or around it, suffered from sever Multiple injuries of cancer & Birth defects in the new born babies,
Untill now they are suffering from Cases of infertility both men & women.

These cases have raised the attention of scientists & few of them was going to the Battle Zones back in 1998-2000, & the Radiation Levels was Terrifying.....

I dont remember what happend in 1986 Chernobyl disaster in Ukrain but I remember up till 90 people was suffering from it..
When I looked into it they was saying it was a (leak) in a reactor ...... Holy What???? a leak?
now how about one of the reactors will expolde ....... Oh my .... not only asia or north america will suffer .... the whole World will suffer . If there will be a World Left !!
But, there is a good usage of that power , medically, for making elecrticity, & i know that russians use it for the heating up water in winter.
My Only Hope is one day Soon we will find another way...

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 12:35:15 PM

truckinslave

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quote:

So, as a means of avoiding future conflict, f

Well, yes, in the sense that I think you mean it: that less reliance upon oil will decrease the chance of Western aggression.

But it guarantees Arab (hence, Muslim) aggression.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 12:42:02 PM

jlf1961

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Truckin, considering that we are subject to the price whims of OPEC, getting away from oil is a GOOD idea.

By the way, your Islamaphobia is showing

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 12:42:04 PM

mnottertail

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Hardly so,. since we won't be fucking in their internal affairs, having no 'vital interests' in those countries.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 1:29:23 PM

Edwynn

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All these posts about why we "need" more nuclear generated power, due to the problems with other means ...

And not a single word yet on solutions that would reduce the hazards and consequences of all of them; namely, energy reduction through serious efforts towards greater efficiency across the board.

All these trillions of government (i.e., taxpayer) dollars thrown at oil and nuclear all these decades, and all people can say is "we need more of it."

As long as we still keep throwing more millions at outdated methods and keep paying more to engineers to find where more oil is or how to build nuclear plants more cheaply than we pay them to find better methods of processing, manufacturing, transporting, etc. with least amount of energy consumption in mind, then we should expect the wars and "accidents" to be the norm that they in fact have become.

So then, just to be the oddball here ...

Cogeneration.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/energy/energy_efficiency/l27021_en.htm

But people in these discussions so often look at a given alternative in isolation and say "but that could never replace oil."

By itself, no. But after dismissing 20 different items as being insufficient to the task of replacing the current war-necessitating and infinite-debt-necessitating and laughable-but-good-deal-making-environmental-band-aids paradigm, does it ever occur to anyone that putting enough of these separate alternatives into use at once has a cumulative affect that could indeed make a serious dent in energy dependency, especially on the environmentally destructive and world destabilizing fuels presently in use?

Just a matter of priorities.

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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/12/2011 1:30:08 PM

DomKen

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From the CNN article linked above:

quote:

On Saturday night, three patients at a hospital tested positive for radiation exposure, according to the Japanese public broadcasting station NHK, citing a statement from Fukushima Prefecture

The three were randomly selected from a group of 90 hospital workers and patients who were already at the medical facility -- about three kilometers from the Daiichi plant -- before Friday's massive quake. The patients were outside of the hospital awaiting evacuation at the time of the explosion.

and

quote:

Japan's nuclear agency said there is a strong possibility that the radioactive cesium the monitors detected was from the melting of a fuel rod at the plant, adding that engineers were cooling the fuel rods by pumping water around them. Cesium is a byproduct of the nuclear fission process that occurs in nuclear plants.

It sounds like at least one reactor vessel has been breached. A large area downwind is likely contaminated.

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