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RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/13/2011 4:13:29 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

I remember seeing reports about a few experimental reactors that could survive on convection cooling after a shutdown.


Those are, IIRC, capable of doing that only in a null-state, i.e. not in active use at the time, nor subject to external forces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69
and... Anyone heard if the waste fuel rod cooling pond water is still intact at these places? There'll be hell to pay if that stuff gets dispersed.


By definition, if there has been strong isotope leakage, which there has, then it must have been vented, at least partially, at some stage.

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/13/2011 7:08:04 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I am enjoying reading the replies, BUT at the end of the day, it is still not known exactly what or how much damage has been done.

Japan struggles to manage nuclear leaks

Let's hope there is no melt-down or long term effects to people and the environment.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/13/2011 7:16:49 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, I think it's a great idea to get away from (foreign/all) oil.
But it will have consequences.
One of those consequences is that Saudi Arabia et al will then be overpopulated, hungry, dead broke, without prospect, and seething with hatred of all things non-Muslim.

Which is actually an improvement save for the hungry part. Hunger compels action.

I do not hide my hatred of the KKK, Islam, and other violent intolerant sexist groups.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/13/2011 7:17:44 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911



For starter I think its Much power that Man can handel
Its so powerfull that even its wast has much power over Man kind....

I dont remember what happend in 1986 Chernobyl disaster in Ukrain but I remember up till 90 people was suffering from it..
When I looked into it they was saying it was a (leak) in a reactor ...... Holy What???? a leak?
now how about one of the reactors will expolde ....... Oh my .... not only asia or north america will suffer .... the whole World will suffer . If there will be a World Left !!
But, there is a good usage of that power , medically, for making elecrticity, & i know that russians use it for the heating up water in winter.
My Only Hope is one day Soon we will find another way.


I agree and I really enjoy your posts.
..................Holy What????? a leak?
I also hope, soon we will find another way!

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/13/2011 7:25:33 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ashjor911)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/13/2011 7:17:55 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		They will have neither income nor food, just their Koran-inspired hatred of you, the infidel.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/13/2011 8:17:27 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

They will have neither income nor food, just their Koran-inspired hatred of you, the infidel.



It is actually spelled Qur`an. And if you had actually researched it, you might actually learn that the people you are afraid of happen to be a minority of fanatics.

You keep pointing out that it is fanatic christians that perform violent acts and that they are a minority.

What do you have, two sets of rules?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/13/2011 8:45:25 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

What do you have, two sets of rules?


You and I both, I suspect, grew up spelling it Koran. You changed to suit them. I didn't. Imagine.
If Christians start flying planes into, say, mosques, I'll rethink my position.
If 27% of Christians in, say, London, say that they would not report knowledge of future subway bombings, I'll rethink my positions.
When Christians in Europe talk of taking all Arab nations, turning them into Europia, and subjecting Arabs to involuntary servitude, I'll rethink my position.
When Christians not only become suicide bombers out to kill Palestinian women and children and they become the rock stars of my faith, complete with posters in WalMart memorializing their butchery and their families are paid bonuses by Christian dictators, then, hell, yes, I will rethink my position.
In any case, they want their holy war, and they cannot be denied save by surrender.

Which means there are no rules.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Thoughts on living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plan... - 3/13/2011 8:45:43 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69
I remember seeing reports about a few experimental reactors that could survive on convection cooling after a shutdown.

Those are, IIRC, capable of doing that only in a null-state, i.e. not in active use at the time, nor subject to external forces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69
and... Anyone heard if the waste fuel rod cooling pond water is still intact at these places? There'll be hell to pay if that stuff gets dispersed.

By definition, if there has been strong isotope leakage, which there has, then it must have been vented, at least partially, at some stage.

The convection cooling was for a "scram'd" reactor and provided a "fail safe" shutdown.

The storage pool is usually outside a containment vessel; the isotope leakage could be from vented steam contaminated with debris from the core shattering or melting (venting would be from the primary loop).

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 12:15:16 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

What do you have, two sets of rules?


You and I both, I suspect, grew up spelling it Koran. You changed to suit them. I didn't. Imagine.
If Christians start flying planes into, say, mosques, I'll rethink my position.
If 27% of Christians in, say, London, say that they would not report knowledge of future subway bombings, I'll rethink my positions.
When Christians in Europe talk of taking all Arab nations, turning them into Europia, and subjecting Arabs to involuntary servitude, I'll rethink my position.
When Christians not only become suicide bombers out to kill Palestinian women and children and they become the rock stars of my faith, complete with posters in WalMart memorializing their butchery and their families are paid bonuses by Christian dictators, then, hell, yes, I will rethink my position.
In any case, they want their holy war, and they cannot be denied save by surrender.

Which means there are no rules.



In Islam, it is considered an insult to call the Qur'an; koran, as that is a deviation from the true word. In Islam, the Qur'an is perfect and any mistakes in spelling are frowned upon, but generally expected of the unbeliever through ignorance, but if one knows the correct term, why not show respect and use it as anything other is disrespect.

The Qur'an (Recitation) are the literal words of God in their original Arabic language. Muslims believe that it was dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Jibril over an interval of 23 years. The text was originally in oral and written form; it was later assembled together into a single book, the Qur'an. Its name is often spelled "Koran" in English. This is not recommended, as some Muslims find it offensive. It is the only book that is considered free of tahrif (error).

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 9:01:28 AM   
ashjor911


Posts: 7793
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: balcony, having a Smoke
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

One of those consequences is that Saudi Arabia et al will then be overpopulated, hungry, dead broke, without prospect, and seething with hatred of all things non-Muslim.



let me get that right : you care about the people of KSA?... really?
let me tell you one thing... If the oil is gone & it will run out of KSA it going to have the biggest gold mind the the regon
I dont think they will be dead broke,

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
I do not hide my hatred of the KKK, Islam, and other violent intolerant sexist groups.

by saying that it make you a mamber of one of the sexist groups....
& you beeing a member in one the sexist groups you are talking about ..... so you dont hide the hate to yourself?

Good luck with that


_____________________________

"operative" working undercover for the federal government of bangladesh.

my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
licensed to give formla

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 10:08:22 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		If my.... Arabic?.... was better than your English I would try.
Alas, it's not.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to ashjor911)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 10:20:34 AM   
ashjor911


Posts: 7793
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: balcony, having a Smoke
Status: offline 		If you Think that was Even close To Arabic
you are mistaken my friend....
Arabic Can not be written in English or Latin Letters such as A B C

_____________________________

"operative" working undercover for the federal government of bangladesh.

my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
licensed to give formla

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 10:27:07 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		No, he was expressing that he didn't know if you spoke and wrote arabic or some other system, but that in any case, he probably wouldn't be facile at it anyhow.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 10:42:03 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

If you Think that was Even close To Arabic
you are mistaken my friend....
Arabic Can not be written in English or Latin Letters such as A B C



I am sure this is not the first time that you have come across someone who speaks some language better than you, yet understands basic concepts not so well.


As for myself, I enjoy and look forward to all your input to this forum.


Note that it was beyond his comprehension to even thank you for attempting to learn a language other than what you grew up with, he could only insult you for not speaking a foreign language perfectly.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/14/2011 10:48:07 AM >

(in reply to ashjor911)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:01:30 AM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		A 3rd reactor has suffered an explosion, worst one yet, they are saying the fuel rods may have been melted and the reactor core was exposed for a period of time.  So 3 reactors now are under siege by rescue workers trying to bring them under control before total meltdown.  Be aware wind is still headed into the pacific and a US carrier has been hit with a wave of radiation.  It is VERY possible that radiation could reach the west coast of the United States.  But of course I hope this will not come to pass.  My best wishes go out to those in Japan and those on the west coast.  I truly hope that the situation will come under control and there will be minimal damage.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:11:09 AM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		...

So much misinformation. If you care to learn a bit about how this is going I direct you to this site:

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

If you'd like to learn about viable solutions to coil/oil power I suggest this site:

http://energyfromthorium.com/2010/03/29/kirk-sorensen-teac2-talk/

Of particular note in this second link is that it can use nuclear waste as fuel.


Okay, so, here's the big problem. The nuclear reactors are already shut down. Also, this reactor can NOT turn into a Chernobyl. Their reactions have stopped. They have been since the earthquake first hit. What hasn't shut down is the residual radiation from all the other stuff in the plant. That's why it needs to be cooled. Anything can cool it, they just don't resort to anything first (like sea water containing boric acid) until they don't have another option... Read the first link.

Oh yeah, all of those gasses people are talking about. Most have a half-life ranging from barely barely a second to a few seconds. Some have a half-life that are longer. If you're in the effected zone it's the same as getting a thorax x-ray. I really wish people would start bitching about all the radiation coal releases; which is, ironically, worse than any nuclear power plant (Carbon-14 anyone?).

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:22:19 AM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		My information is not misinformation.  I'm listening to what Russia Today has to say about it.  Why would RT report misinformation to scare their own people considering the eastern most part of Russia is only 100 miles off the coast of Japan?   It would better suit their interests to lie in the other direction to calm their people if they were to do so.  In fact from what I have seen so far most media sources ARE trying to downplay the situation.  The only reason this cannot turn into another Chernobyl is because the reactors are not cooled by graphite, which would carry the radiation further.  But as for your idea of half life.  If this were true then please explain how the US Carrier detected radiation 100 miles off the coast of NE Japan? In fact I will quote the seventh fleet myself; "The source of this airborne radioactivity is a radioactive plume released from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi Nuclear Power Plant.".  If you need a source you can start with this: http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/article966131.ece/US-carrier-moves-away-from-Japan-over-radiation

(in reply to zenny)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:30:57 AM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		The corporate media is almost unanimous in its appraisal of the nuclear crisis unfolding in Japan – the meltdown of multiple nuclear reactors will not result in a Chernobyl-style disaster.

Japanese government: We’re in control, nothing to worry about here, now move along. According to the Japanese government, the explosion at the Fukushima Daiichi No. 3 reactor is not much to worry about. Officials said the inner reactor container remained intact, but this information should be taken with a large grain of salt – the Japanese government has a fairly extensive track record of covering up its nuclear accidents and mishaps.
In 2003 alone, Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) shut down 17 plants because the company had falsified records pertaining to a series accidents that pale in comparison to what is now unfolding at Fukushima and other nuclear power plants in the country. TEPCO is the largest electric utility in Japan and the 4th largest electric utility in the world.
“The nuclear power plant failures and explosions near Fukushima, Japan are an excellent case example of the failure of government. Here, the Japanese government has been horribly derelict before, during and after this incident,” writes Mike Rogers from Tokyo. “I am not talking about just the Japanese government here. I am talking about all governments. All governments lie all the time. It is the nature of government to do so.” A former nuclear power plant designer said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed, the BBC reported yesterday. He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems.
Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was “highly unstable” and that if there was a meltdown the “consequences would be tremendous.” Mr. Goto made his comments prior to the explosion of a second reactor at the Fukushima plant earlier today.
Goto said that the failure now unfolding at Fukushima represents “many Chernobyls.” He said further explosions will spread radioactive material over a very wide area, well beyond the 20 kilometer evacuation zone set up by the authorities over the weekend. The single Chernobyl event that began on April 26, 1986, released as much as 300 times the lethal radioactive fallout of the Hiroshima bomb, according to the Hiroshima Internaltiona Council for Health Care of the Radiation-exposed. Radiation had been released for 10 days and scattered in different directions as the wind shifted. Cecium-137, strontium-90, iodine-131, and plutonium were the major radiation source for the contamination. Millions of people in the Soviet Union and Europe were exposed.
Gotto’s “many Chernobyls” scenario is now playing out in Japan and the government is covering it up. If the situation is not contained in record time, the above figures taken after Chernobyl will be dwarfed.
The Soviet military followed the same disastrous course the Japanese government is now following – a massive cover-up of the scope and severity of the crisis, including wide-scale falsification of medical histories, the disappearance of people’s records so the state would not have to compensate them, and the wholesale looting of evacuated houses and abandoned churches (see John Vidal’s article about Chernobyl, Hell on Earth).
“This is a terrible situation indeed, but there is a very important lesson in life for all of us in this mess,” concludes Mike Rogers from his perch in Tokyo. “I believe that this is a lesson that is teaching us personal responsibility and it is also teaching us to have a healthy skepticism of the state and its proclamations.”

< Message edited by ChiDS -- 3/14/2011 11:32:51 AM >

(in reply to ChiDS)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:33:12 AM   
ashjor911


Posts: 7793
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: balcony, having a Smoke
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS

A 3rd reactor has suffered an explosion, worst one yet, they are saying the fuel rods may have been melted and the reactor core was exposed for a period of time.  So 3 reactors now are under siege by rescue workers trying to bring them under control before total meltdown.  Be aware wind is still headed into the pacific and a US carrier has been hit with a wave of radiation.  It is VERY possible that radiation could reach the west coast of the United States.  But of course I hope this will not come to pass.  My best wishes go out to those in Japan and those on the west coast.  I truly hope that the situation will come under control and there will be minimal damage.


not only wave of radiation
I remember in london in 1990 it was 4 years after chernobel & there was acide rain


_____________________________

"operative" working undercover for the federal government of bangladesh.

my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
licensed to give formla

(in reply to ChiDS)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 11:35:15 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
TY zenny, great information there.


I remember reading about thorium some years ago. Great prospects in that direction.


As an economist (actually, an 'aspiring' economist, as I'm still a year away yet from getting the BA) the first question here would be "how much does it cost?" followed directly by "who is going to pay for it?"



Any energy production scheme that could stand on its own, with out government (i.e., taxpayer) help would get my ear. The oil and nuclear heavily subsidized schemes will be with us forever, so that is what any new proposal would have to deal with and overcome economically. Tough task.













(in reply to zenny)
Profile   Post #: 60
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