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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 1:18:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States. Not one person has ever been killed in this country because of one of those plants. I would say that they are safe.

3 people have died in the US from nuclear plant accidents.

edit: got the number killed wrong

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/14/2011 1:28:10 PM >

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 1:19:04 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We are living in a nuclear world;
and I am just a nuclear girl.........

Oh ya!

We are living.........

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 1:40:43 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States. Not one person has ever been killed in this country because of one of those plants. I would say that they are safe.

3 people have died in the US from nuclear plant accidents.

edit: got the number killed wrong


Slipping on a banana peel in a nuclear plant control room doesnt count.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 1:42:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States. Not one person has ever been killed in this country because of one of those plants. I would say that they are safe.

3 people have died in the US from nuclear plant accidents.

edit: got the number killed wrong


Slipping on a banana peel in a nuclear plant control room doesnt count.

They were killed by a reactor going prompt critical and blowing up.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 2:50:28 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		Have a source? I can't find anything related except what's been labeled as a hoax and explanations that during meltdown Cs-137 and I-131 occur within primary containment which supposedly leaks 1% of contained gasses a day into containment 2, until normal conditions.

< Message edited by zenny -- 3/14/2011 2:53:19 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 3:52:33 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		I spent half an hour with different search parameters and reading different news sources and can't find what your talking about. All I find is "meltdown releases this stuff" without mention of it staying within primary containment. On the news I have watched besides this I've seen experts essentially call the hosts idiots for their fear mongering and inability to understand. So provide a source that specifically says primary containment has failed and all the Cs-137 and I-131 is being released into the atmosphere or let it be. Preferably something remotely credible. Nice ad hominem, u mad.


< Message edited by zenny -- 3/14/2011 3:59:50 PM >

(in reply to ChiDS)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 4:17:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

Have a source? I can't find anything related except what's been labeled as a hoax and explanations that during meltdown Cs-137 and I-131 occur within primary containment which supposedly leaks 1% of contained gasses a day into containment 2, until normal conditions.

http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=caesium

Cs-137 and I-131 are fission products and occur during normal operation of any uranium fueled fission reactor. The caesium had to come out of the fuel rods.

(in reply to zenny)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 4:47:16 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States. Not one person has ever been killed in this country because of one of those plants. I would say that they are safe.

3 people have died in the US from nuclear plant accidents.

edit: got the number killed wrong


Slipping on a banana peel in a nuclear plant control room doesnt count.

They were killed by a reactor going prompt critical and blowing up.



Uh, you might want to add a little fact to that statement, the accident in question was the result of a control rod being pulled too far out which resulted in a STEAM explosion, by the reactor going critical.

This should explain the term critical to you:

quote:

In a nuclear reactor, the neutron population at any instant is a function of the rate of neutron production (due to fission processes) and the rate of neutron losses (via non-fission absorption mechanisms and leakage from the system). When a reactor’s neutron population remains steady from one generation to the next (creating as many new neutrons as are lost), the fission chain reaction is self-sustaining and the reactor's condition is referred to as "critical". When the reactor’s neutron production exceeds losses, characterized by increasing power level, it is considered "supercritical", and; when losses dominate, it is considered "subcritical" and exhibits decreasing power.



quote:

On January 3, 1961, the only fatal nuclear reactor accident in the U.S. occurred at the NRTS. An experimental reactor called SL-1 (Stationary Low-Power Plant Number 1) was destroyed when a control rod was pulled too far out of the reactor, leading to core meltdown and a steam explosion. The reactor vessel jumped up 9 feet 1 inch (2.77 m).[56] The concussion and blast killed all three military enlisted personnel working on the reactor. Due to the extensive radioactive isotope contamination, all three had to be buried in lead coffins. The events are the subject of two books, one published in 2003, Idaho Falls: The untold story of America's first nuclear accident,[57] and another, Atomic America: How a Deadly Explosion and a Feared Admiral Changed the Course of Nuclear History, published in 2009.[56]


< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 3/14/2011 4:48:40 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 5:08:38 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Maybe you think I said something I didn't.

3 people died when a reactor went prompt critical and blew up.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 6:02:00 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Maybe you think I said something I didn't.

3 people died when a reactor went prompt critical and blew up.



A reactor going critical is when it is generating a SELF SUSTAINING reaction. I posted the complete story of the accident in which three men died. The reactor did not go critical, it failed to cool down and resulted in a steam explosion and a core meltdown. Reactors can not go super critical and explode, they meltdown and generate a steam explosion, which is something entirely different.

You might also want to make it known it was an experimental design, and when the control rod was pulled too far out, the core overheated and melted down.

There have been 13 incidents involving American reactors, that are listed. Two, the Explosion at SL-1, National Reactor Testing Station, and three mile island resulted in radioactive material being released into the environment. Only one accident resulted in deaths.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 3/14/2011 6:09:40 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 6:15:32 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		He's got a point, Jeff.  The reactor was shut down, and lifting that essential control rod resulted in sudden criticality and an extremely rapid rise in power/temperature.  I've seen "prompt critical" used in other accident reports, including Medvedev's The Truth About Chernobyl.  It's a "prompt" surge in neutron generation.

as an aside, Medvedev's book is an excellent account of an engineering disaster.  Well worth digging out of the library.

Now there's been a third explosion (reactor 3).  I've also found it interesting that a relief valve was malfunctioning for this one, because that happened on several Babcock & Wilcox reactors here in the US, back in the '70s.


< Message edited by outhere69 -- 3/14/2011 6:19:25 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 6:39:51 PM   
MissAnnaRose


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2010
Status: offline 		All three reactors are in, at least, partial meltdown. The zirconium alloy fuel rod casings have already cracked from the heat just from nuclear decay -- not from a self-sustaining reaction, which was stopped with the control rods -- leading to the reaction producing hydrogen and leading to the explosions. If the fuel rods open up and 235U and 239PU melt and gather in the containment vessel, critical mass could be reached, resulting in a breach of the containment vessel and a release of a huge amount of radiation into the atmosphere (meltdown). 

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:10:38 PM   
MissAnnaRose


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2010
Status: offline 		Unit #2 may be melting down now. Latest news is "...the bottom of the container that surrounds the generator's nuclear core might have been damaged. Another agency spokesman, Shinji Kinjo, says that "a leak of nuclear material is feared." I suspect that when they say the bottom of the container is damaged, it means 235U and 239Pu were released from damaged fuel rods and collected in the bottom of the vessel, reached critical mass (and a temp of 5000 degrees), and burned right through...

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/14/2113962/3rd-reactor-loses-cooling-at-japan.html#ixzz1Gd7JOnjQ

(in reply to MissAnnaRose)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:25:37 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		It's really getting nasty now:

" Japan faced the likelihood of a catastrophic nuclear accident Tuesday morning, as an explosion at the most crippled of three reactors at the Fukushima Daichi Nuclear Power Station damaged its crucial steel containment structure, emergency workers were withdrawn from the plant, and much larger emissions of radioactive materials appeared immiment, according to official statements and industry executives informed about the developments."

(in reply to MissAnnaRose)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:27:41 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
Great reporting MissAnnaRose!

This is on all the cable news channels as I type.

Breaking News! Fourth Reactor Now on Fire, more radiation released!

I don't think we really know exactly what the hell is going on over there, every day we find out more and more.

Why are so many, so quick to start the "Oh this is nothing?" bullchips?

At the very least, Japan is certainly having a "nucelear scare" right about now.


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to MissAnnaRose)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:27:55 PM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAnnaRose

Unit #2 may be melting down now. Latest news is "...the bottom of the container that surrounds the generator's nuclear core might have been damaged. Another agency spokesman, Shinji Kinjo, says that "a leak of nuclear material is feared." I suspect that when they say the bottom of the container is damaged, it means 235U and 239Pu were released from damaged fuel rods and collected in the bottom of the vessel, reached critical mass (and a temp of 5000 degrees), and burned right through...

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/14/2113962/3rd-reactor-loses-cooling-at-japan.html#ixzz1Gd7JOnjQ



Yes indeed.  People on the west coast of the US and Hawaii, should take precautions.  If it were me, I would rather spend a couple bucks and be wrong.  Than have not spent it before the RUSH for it and get screwed.  The wind IS heading your way.

(in reply to MissAnnaRose)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:32:27 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		Now it looks like reactor 4's on fire (from CNN's Just Breaking blog):

[10:12 p.m. ET Monday, 11:12 a.m. Tuesday in Tokyo] A fire has erupted in a fourth reactor at the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, a top adviser to Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan announced Tuesday.

(in reply to ChiDS)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:38:02 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We are living in a nuclear world;
and I am just a nuclear girl.........

Oh ya!

We are living.........


shake that money maker!
Make it pop!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:39:54 PM   
MissAnnaRose


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2010
Status: offline 		This is especially bad news superimposed on the earthquake and tsunami. My heart goes out to all of those affected.

The containment buildings are designed to blow (to protect the core) but if the cores aren't cooled, it's really just another step toward a meltdown.

Unit #2 will emit more dangerous radioactive substance into the atmosphere if it melts, because it used MOX fuel -- a mix of 235U and 239Pu. But all reactors get approximately 30% of their energy from 239Pu, because it's formed from 238U, which makes up approximately 96% of the uranium used for fuel in a reactor. 238U -- the inert uranium -- is a fertile isotope that absorbs a neutron and, through decay, forms plutonium. But the reactors that start out using the mix of uranium and plutonium are much more dangerous to health.  France and Germany have many reactors that use MOX fuel in a much, much higher concentration than unit #2.



(in reply to ChiDS)
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RE: Living in a nuclear world? Nuclear Plant Explosions... - 3/14/2011 7:47:51 PM   
MissAnnaRose


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2010
Status: offline 		I don't have cable, but I'm glad to know I'm keeping up with them :-)

(in reply to ChiDS)
Profile   Post #: 100
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