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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 10:06:35 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		it depends on what it is, really. everyone has a brand of honesty that works best for them, and their relationships tend to reflect that. people lie for all sorts of reasons, some are malicious lies, and others are the "not so bad" lies for which we have a plethora of euphemisms. =p i believe in honesty, while allowing for a person to make a mistake, or to lie to me about something nice. =p haha
too much lying, particularly malicious lying, or where it borders on pathological -- meh... once i start figuring the lies out, if there are just too many, i'll wander away.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 3/13/2011 10:31:55 AM >

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 10:26:50 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

I could not forgive any lie told to protect the liar.


This is such a generalization. Say your 6 yr. old child broke a vase. You see it and ask them if they broke it. They fear punishment and say "no, I didn't. The dog did it." So as this would be a "lie told to protect the liar," that is unforgivable? Just one example of how there are many shades of gray in questions like this.............luci

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 10:37:13 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Pretty sure that was about adults. Ya know..those who understand the ramifications of lying to people.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 5:59:06 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
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Status: offline 		After my first dom was diagnosed with cancer i found out that he didn't have a college degree as he had previously said. Did i dump him and run? No - because even if he wanted to make himself appear more appealing by lying, he lied because he wanted ME!

It didn't affect the relationship that we had built over the past five years, so in the long run was not important.
The only thing it did was make me question any of his history that he had given me prior to our being together - but , like the degree, it didn't affect our life together, so i didn't particularly care.

There was nothing malicious in his lying - he lied to inflate his resume, so to speak.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 7:43:34 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: butynbrains

i have been lucky enough to experience (in the past) a loving D/s relationship in which there was ABSOLUTE honesty. Previous to that relationship i had only vanilla relationships, but in those i would have said i was pretty honest. Once i experienced *absolute* honesty in  a relationship i saw the difference was night and day. For me,  absolute honesty in the relationship isn't simply a "perk" of a D/s relationship, its a necessity.

Do you find that you agree? Within a relationship that professes to be based on honesty (not solely, but as a core value) are there lies you can forgive or would anything not completely honest be reason to move on/end the relationship? i think it is prob diff if you're getting to know someone vs. already in a long term, committed relationship, but perhaps not. Looking forward to hearing others thoughts :).




I seriously do not believe that absolute honesty exists. I expect that people have lied, and will continue to lie. If they are lying to me it is my responsibility to figure out why and determine if I can change it, or accept it.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/13/2011 11:51:35 PM   
TheShrew


Posts: 519
Joined: 2/15/2009
From: The state I live in? Confusion.
Status: offline 		A lie, probably.
A liar, probably not.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 2:04:06 AM   
TotalDiscipline


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShrew

A lie, probably.
A liar, probably not.





so..you mean no?


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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 3:23:10 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		one lie..or transgression.. I will ABSOLUTELY not forgive is someone who says I will never put my hands on my partner in anger,.. and then does.

many (but not all) others MIGHT have a mitigating circumstance that I *may* be willing to take in to account.

oh yeah.. CHEATING doesnt fall into that last category.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 3:30:13 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		Short answer - yes.

What is true and what is false is generally only a matter of perception.

Perception and reality are individual, not just to a person, but also to time and space.

A lie in itself is insignificant, the significance comes from the intent and the effect.

The same can be said of perception.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 4:19:35 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

Short answer - yes.

What is true and what is false is generally only a matter of perception.

Perception and reality are individual, not just to a person, but also to time and space.

A lie in itself is insignificant, the significance comes from the intent and the effect.

The same can be said of perception.


Stella, the last two lines are perfection.

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 7:08:20 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not very forgiving when it comes to lies, even white lies.  The thing is, I usually see through them or discover them at some point, and what this does is chips away at my level of trust in the other's word.  Sure I might shrug off a white lie or two, but the consequence of those lies is a gradual erosion of what used to be an amazing level of trust.  The next thing I know, I don't believe little compliments he says, or whether or not he really is happy with my service, etc.  Everything is up for questioning, because I don't know if he's saying something to spare my feelings or if he really means it.

Other than to hide a nice surprise, I don't see a place for lies in a relationship. In my relationship, I see more damage than good.  This is not to say he hasn't told me white lies - he has. But those moments cause me to think, "Uh huh" the next time he says something similar.

My standards about honesty are pretty high.  If I can't trust what he is telling me, what's the point?  If he can't return my level of honesty with the same, we're in for some problems down the road.  He knew this about me when embarking on our relationship, so this would come as no surprise to him.  I recall the first time he said a tiny little white lie to try to spare my feelings, I ended up feeling really disappointed, like we lost something cool.  It's just not worth it to me. 


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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 7:13:09 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not very forgiving when it comes to lies, even white lies. The thing is, I usually see through them or discover them at some point, and what this does is chips away at my level of trust in the other's word. Sure I might shrug off a white lie or two, but the consequence of those lies is a gradual erosion of what used to be an amazing level of trust. The next thing I know, I don't believe little compliments he says, or whether or not he really is happy with my service, etc. Everything is up for questioning, because I don't know if he's saying something to spare my feelings or if he really means it.


Could not have said it better myself!

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 8:19:48 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: butynbrains

i have been lucky enough to experience (in the past) a loving D/s relationship in which there was ABSOLUTE honesty. Previous to that relationship i had only vanilla relationships, but in those i would have said i was pretty honest. Once i experienced *absolute* honesty in  a relationship i saw the difference was night and day. For me,  absolute honesty in the relationship isn't simply a "perk" of a D/s relationship, its a necessity.

Do you find that you agree? Within a relationship that professes to be based on honesty (not solely, but as a core value) are there lies you can forgive or would anything not completely honest be reason to move on/end the relationship? i think it is prob diff if you're getting to know someone vs. already in a long term, committed relationship, but perhaps not. Looking forward to hearing others thoughts :).




Absolute honesty isn't something I've ever expected from anyone. Nor do I give it. I'm incapable of being 100% honest.

M and I have never made any declarations of complete honesty...our relationship and the people we are simply isn't based on that at all. It's not THAT important to us overall.

People lie, that's all there is to it, I hardly ever think about it.

agirl



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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 8:33:55 AM   
TheShrew


Posts: 519
Joined: 2/15/2009
From: The state I live in? Confusion.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShrew
A lie, probably.
A liar, probably not.


so..you mean no?


What I mean is yes to one, and no to the other.
If someone told me "a" lie to protect me, calm me in a heated moment, spare me from negativity in a public setting etc .. these I could forgive.
But there are some people in life who are just liars. They constantly lie about everything. It doesn't seem to matter if it's insignificant or important. These I could not forgive.
{Although, it would be a moot point because I would not associate with a person that is so untrustworthy. My neice has an ex like this. I've no idea why, the man simply lies about everything. This is why he is her ex.}

< Message edited by TheShrew -- 3/14/2011 8:35:44 AM >

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 11:00:31 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		A litlte white lie told to spare my feelings i would forgive in a heartbeat.

Lying about something big that is a deal breaker for me. Master and i have this honesty and trust thing gong on. We have been togther for 5 years and he has never lied to me not mr to him.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/14/2011 11:13:16 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I'm not very forgiving when it comes to lies, even white lies. The thing is, I usually see through them or discover them at some point, and what this does is chips away at my level of trust in the other's word. Sure I might shrug off a white lie or two, but the consequence of those lies is a gradual erosion of what used to be an amazing level of trust. The next thing I know, I don't believe little compliments he says, or whether or not he really is happy with my service, etc. Everything is up for questioning, because I don't know if he's saying something to spare my feelings or if he really means it.


Could not have said it better myself!


Thank you, tazzy.  I figured I'd be in the minority with this one, but honesty IS important to me.  My standards are what they are.  Overall, while I realize 100% honesty can be difficult or perhaps even impossible, it's what I strive for in my intimate relationships. 


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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/16/2011 1:19:43 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Pretty sure that was about adults. Ya know..those who understand the ramifications of lying to people.

Maybe. The statement was a general one so I don't really know. But "ya know," not all adults "understand the ramifications of lying to people" either. I think that's kind of the point. So they do it anyhow. Can I forgive lying? Yes. I can't possibly think of every single instance where I could or could not or would or would not but, in general, if it's someone I care enough about to want to keep around, damn right I can forgive...........luci

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/16/2011 1:23:07 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

one lie..or transgression.. I will ABSOLUTELY not forgive is someone who says I will never put my hands on my partner in anger,.. and then does.

many (but not all) others MIGHT have a mitigating circumstance that I *may* be willing to take in to account.

oh yeah.. CHEATING doesnt fall into that last category.


So how are you with... say... having all your clothes ripped off while washing dishes and being TOTALLY VIOLATED?

Jus askin.
SLURP~


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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/16/2011 1:25:43 PM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
Joined: 5/5/2010
Status: offline 		Ah ok
thank you for explaining.

But isn't it weird we dislike beeing lied to...but we accept beeing lied for?

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RE: Any Lies You Can Forgive? - 3/16/2011 1:41:29 PM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline 		From the start, my former SO lied on his profile. He's 10 years older and 25lbs heavier. He also sent me a pic from 20+ yrs ago. I forgave the "deception" and thought we could move on. He'd won me over with his wit, intelligence and personality, so I wasn't concerned with his looks.
Unfortunately it was the least of his lies. After 3 years of a "monogamous committed" relationship, he emailed me a lame excuse for breaking up. His biggest lie of all: he's not a widower, his wife is very much alive.

I'm hesitant now to even say I'd forgive any lies. I'll make those decisions when I have to.


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