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RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 7:50:17 AM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


Unless we are willing to call what they want to do criminal, shouldn't the final decision rest with them, DC? Isn't it their cute potato?




This "leaving it to them, because its their cute potato" is precisely why Medicare is going broke.  This same irrational decision-making happens everyday among the families of octogenarians in this country, and at present, Medicare is obliged to pay for it, no questions asked.   But rather than have that rational discussion in this country, we simply kick the can down the road and borrow more from China to fund it all.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 8:06:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What bothers me is the fact that the parents are in denial over the vegetative state.

LONDON, Ontario, February 24, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Dying one-year-old Joseph Maraachli’s family says two new videos of him flailing and reacting to tickling belie his hospital’s claim that he is in a permanent vegetative state.

,,,,,,,

“How can a baby be in a vegetative state who has his hands tied - as we speak - for him to not pull out his tube?” asked Joseph’s aunt, Samar Nader. “How does a baby in a vegetative state respond to combing or tickling?”

“What really boggles my mind is how we’re not allowed to videotape him or have media outlets watching him to show the public what he’s like,” she added. “That’s very frustrating.”

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-videos-show-vegetable-baby-joseph-reacting-to-parents

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 8:49:47 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well now, that's much better than we have typically come to expect from you, Ken. Of course, the article fails to mention that the mother in the Hudson case was determined to be psychologically impaired. You can get a much fuller account by reading, Incompetent Decisionmakers and Withdrawal of Life-Sustaining Treatment: A Case Study, written by the director of Texas Children's Hospital's legal department.

Flco has also been very helpful (by accident, I'm sure) in quoting and bolding the bit of your link that makes it very clear that the Texas law applies to the specific hospital making the decision, and insures that the family has time to try and veto that decision by voting with their feet.



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Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:04:12 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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So you think we need death panels to streamline our state funded medical care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

This "leaving it to them, because its their cute potato" is precisely why Medicare is going broke.  This same irrational decision-making happens everyday among the families of octogenarians in this country, and at present, Medicare is obliged to pay for it, no questions asked.   But rather than have that rational discussion in this country, we simply kick the can down the road and borrow more from China to fund it all.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:05:19 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I saw that article. Reminded me of the Schiavo video.

Agree on the denial part. I'm sure you have come across more than your fair share of these types of parents/wives/husbands/siblings who are so deep in it that they can not see the reality in front of them when their loved one is in a state such as this. They are the most difficult and challenging folks I have ever encountered.

Coming from a personal place : My Dad was severely burned in a fire. 90% of his body, yet he survived, if you can call it that. He was tubed and vented and everything else. I was his Healthcare Proxy and when I arrived at the hospital I met with the MDs and had all the tubes removed and requested palliative sedation. While it was the most emotinal, heartbreaking decision I have ever made, it was also the easiest. I like to think it comes from a place of respect for my Fathers life. I still cry about it, I hurt from it, there are days I wish I had delayed it a day or two so I could have been with him that little bit longer, but it was the absolute right thing to do for him. It wasn't about my pain or my hope for a miracle.

That is why I said I am torn. I * understand * these people on one level, yet having gone thru it, albeit my Dad had lived a full life, I could not have gone and sat with him day in day out with no hope of ever having a "person " < my Dad > with me. Nor could I have sat by and seen him as a blob of meat in a bed with no independent life function.

mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 3/20/2011 9:08:14 AM >

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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:06:30 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		Come on Rich,  that's the best you can do.

How is the Texas Death Panel better?   Remember now Texas is one of the reddest of states and the Republicans have been making the laws there for ages.

It was nice of you to skip over the fact that no other hospital would take the child.  Much like no hospital in the US was interested in taking the Canadian child EXCEPT for the faith based one who wished a political statement.

There should be a special in hell for those who wish to political games withe life of a dying child.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:16:25 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

This "leaving it to them, because its their cute potato" is precisely why Medicare is going broke.  This same irrational decision-making happens everyday among the families of octogenarians in this country, and at present, Medicare is obliged to pay for it, no questions asked.   But rather than have that rational discussion in this country, we simply kick the can down the road and borrow more from China to fund it all.



Thanks for agreeing with my earlier assessment that this sort of thing is an inevitable consequence of publicly funded health care, Eterna.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:18:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I worked the spectrum. From geriatric and nursing homes, to new born nursery and labor and delivery. The later being where most expect the happiest moments of their lives. And, often they do.

And sometimes they do not. Its extremely hard telling new parents their child isnt going to make it, or that the complications associated with the delivery has left their child brain damaged. There is no mysterious window into the womb one can open to check on the baby.

And its one of the rare areas that parents do make many of the decisions, and one that has the highest lawsuit rates.

Take a guess why. mbmn, you would know why. I doubt others put it together quite this way.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:26:36 AM   
EternalHoH


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Joined: 5/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thanks for agreeing with my earlier assessment that this sort of thing is an inevitable consequence of publicly funded health care, Eterna.




Gee, is there an abundance of private insurers tripping over themselves to sell private insurance to octogenarians whose families with power of attorney simply refuse to let go?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:27:04 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Now that the Sarah Palins been proven right, and death panels are an admitted fact:

Will these cost-cutting death panels be elected, or chosen by politicians?

Will they not eventually feel pressured to "cut costs" further and further, depending on budgets and the ever larger pool of elderly baby boomers?

Will the death panels ever have agendas, and what will be any appeals process be like.?

And will the costs associated with funding the death panels themselves ever be a target for savings.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:28:30 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
"Free" state health care will drive private insurers out of business in a hurry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

Gee, is there an abundance of private insurers tripping over themselves to sell private insurance to octogenarians whose families with power of attorney simply refuse to let go?



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:31:45 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So you think we need death panels to streamline our state funded medical care.





So counseling hospice over heroic, costly, and inefficient 11th hour medical procedures (driven by psychological denial of pending death) defines a 'death panel' in your mind?

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:32:56 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Now that the Sarah Palins been proven right, and death panels are an admitted fact:

Will these cost-cutting death panels be elected, or chosen by politicians?

Will they not eventually feel pressured to "cut costs" further and further, depending on budgets and the ever larger pool of elderly baby boomers?

Will the death panels ever have agendas, and what will be any appeals process be like.?

And will the costs associated with funding the death panels themselves ever be a target for savings.



Palin, or anyone else, has yet to show exactly what it is in the health care law that would establish a "death panel". Their one attempt was the insistance that setting up a payment for a 15 minute consult for Drs with patients to review their advanced directives was quickly, and completely, shot down.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:34:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

death panels are an admitted fact:




They walked right into that one, didn't they, Sanity?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:35:32 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

"Free" state health care will drive private insurers out of business in a hurry.




Artful dodging of the question. 

Under a private system, what corporate insurance outfits would be tripping over themselves to offer private health insurance to a subset of the population that spends 90% of their lifetime health expenses in their final 2 months of life?  Is that a sound business practice for any corporation that isn't high on drugs?



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:36:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Who walked into what? There are no "death panels" which is a phrase coined by Palin herself. A "death panel, as she chooses to define it, is a panel who makes health care decisions for us. The panel in Canada made no decisions, It upheld the decisions made by the Drs.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:37:14 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

death panels are an admitted fact:




They walked right into that one, didn't they, Sanity?



Yes, you did walk right into that.  Even a private sector insurance system has them, too.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:38:15 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

You really want to talk about "Artful dodging of the question"?

Okay, lets talk about that...

You still havent answered the following:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So you think we need death panels to streamline our state funded medical care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

This "leaving it to them, because its their cute potato" is precisely why Medicare is going broke.  This same irrational decision-making happens everyday among the families of octogenarians in this country, and at present, Medicare is obliged to pay for it, no questions asked.   But rather than have that rational discussion in this country, we simply kick the can down the road and borrow more from China to fund it all.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:41:21 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Looks like your team needs to huddle for a minute and decide among yourselves whether theyre needed or not

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Who walked into what? There are no "death panels" which is a phrase coined by Palin herself. A "death panel, as she chooses to define it, is a panel who makes health care decisions for us. The panel in Canada made no decisions, It upheld the decisions made by the Drs.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Canadian Death Panel Thwarted - 3/20/2011 9:41:43 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

Gee, is there an abundance of private insurers tripping over themselves to sell private insurance to octogenarians whose families with power of attorney simply refuse to let go?



There only needs to be one, Eterna. It's a niche market. Since my attitudes on heroic measures are quite different from that, such costs wouldn't be impacting what I shell out for health insurance. There is also the option, in a private enterprise based health system, of the family just paying for the care themselves.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 180
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