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RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 9:32:51 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Aylee, can you nominate a single area of human endeavour that is not characterised by diversity? Some test where humans failed to perform across a range of results? Where everyone is the same? Or everyone performs to the same standard? If one exists, I've never heard of it.

Or any area of everyday life where humans all perform to the same standard? Cooking? Running? Thinking? Talking? Writing? Working? Posting to CM? Tastes? Fashions? Likes and dislikes? Any area, discipline, or skill? Test humans in any area and you will get a range of results. People perform across a range of diversity.

All humans are diverse. We're the same and we're different at the same time. We are diverse. That diversity is all around you and me and everyone else every second of every day.

That diversity is the impetus for change and renewal. Without change and renewal things become stagnant and die. The tendency to diversify through random mutation is the driving force of evolution - without it, we wouldn't be here. Humans as we know them wouldn't have evolved. The world as we experience it would have died off long ago without this tendency to diversify.


Tweakabelle,

Let's say that I am going to build a house. For this I will need a diverse workforce. An architect, plumber, electrician, roofer, the sheet-rock dude, the window dude, you get the idea.

If instead, you bring me a diverse workforce consisting of a black dude, white dude, gay dude, a woman, a catholic, a Mormon, you get the idea, and they are ALL plumbers, I will never get my house built.

The first is functional diversity. It is very useful. I do not bother celebrating it though.

The second consists of non-functional or status diversity. It is not useful. I see no reason to celebrate it.

SexyBossyBBW (henceforth to be referred to as SBBBW) just posted a list of a bunch of people. Given her objections to my opinion on the usefulness of non-functional diversity I can only take from that she believes that color, religion, sexuality, ethnicity, language, et cetera is what makes a person worthwhile.

She lists Barack Obama. So what is important to her about Obama is that he is black / half-black, whatever. NOT that he was elected President of the United States.

I do not feel that color, religion, sex, et cetera are important. I do think that focusing on these kinds of differences creates problems. It is just surface crap that has nothing to do with your abilities or worth as a person.

SBBBW seems to think that the surface stuff is the sum of a person.

So, when I build my house I want and would values a functionally diverse work crew. Their non-functionally diverse aspects make no difference to me.

< Message edited by Aylee -- 3/27/2011 9:33:45 AM >

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 12:46:59 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

The second consists of non-functional or status diversity. It is not useful. I see no reason to celebrate it.


Aylee, the example you gave to illustrate what you call "non-functional or status diversity" is not "non-functional or status diversity" - it is just plain stupidity. When I hear of someone attempting to build a house using just plumbers, I will give your claim serious consideration.

Do you have a serious example of what you mean by this? By serious I mean something that is not a strawman-type example, not contrived and likely to occur in the real world.

Between now and then ('cause I fear I might be waiting a while for your example) could you offer an example of any area of human behaviour where human performance is not characterised by diversity as requested?

If you are unable to offer such an example, do you then agree that a fundamental characteristic of human behaviour is its diversity?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/27/2011 1:16:13 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 1:05:27 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

Aylee

"Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence."
John Jay, 1st Chief Justice of the United States, President of the Continental Congress, Federalist Papers, 1787

quote:


I do not feel that color, religion, sex, et cetera are important. I do think that focusing on these kinds of differences creates problems. It is just surface crap that has nothing to do with your abilities or worth as a person.
SBBBW seems to think that the surface stuff is the sum of a person.



Earlier in the the thread, you offered the John Jay quote approvingly to support your position criticising diversity. The section I have bolded clearly privileges stuff that you later refer to as "the surface crap" of a person.

It seems to me that your latest position (the second quote, the first paragraph of which I agree with totally) directly contradicts and undermines the first.

Am i missing something? Perhaps you could reconcile the contradiction for me.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/27/2011 1:35:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 1:31:23 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Earlier in the the thread, you offered the John Jay quote approvingly to support your position criticising diversity. The section I have bolded clearly privileges stuff that you later refer to as "the surface stuff" of a person.

It seems to me that your latest position (the second quote, the first paragraph of which I agree with totally) directly contradicts and undermines the first.

Am i missing something? Perhaps you could reconcile the contradiction for me.

No. I provided that quote to show that this country was NOT founded on diversity.

And yes, you are missing something. Race, language, age, sex, culture and even whether someone is homosexual is how you judge and stereotype people. These things are not important to me. Focusing on or "celebrating" those things creates further division in humans.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 1:42:12 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

The second consists of non-functional or status diversity. It is not useful. I see no reason to celebrate it.


Aylee, the example you gave to illustrate what you call "non-functional or status diversity" is not "non-functional or status diversity" - it is just plain stupidity. When I hear of someone attempting to build a house using just plumbers, I will give your claim serious consideration.

Do you have a serious example of what you mean by this? By serious I mean something that is not a strawman-type example, not contrived and likely to occur in the real world.

Between now and then ('cause I fear I might be waiting a while for your example) could you offer an example of any area of human behaviour where human performance is not characterised by diversity as requested?

If you are unable to offer such an example, do you then agree that a fundamental characteristic of human behaviour is its diversity?


Again, there are TWO types of diversity here. Useful and non-useful.

If I am going to build a house I am only interested in one type. Can you do the job I need you to do? So, I need a plumber, an electrician, yadda, yadda.

I am not interested in hiring someone based on race, language, age, sex, culture and hetero/homosexuality.

Celebrating an achievement is one thing. YAY! You made it through boot camp!

Celebrating your genes is ridiculous. YAY! My genes give me a skinnier body than you!

So have fun judging and placing value you on people because of their skin color or religion or sexual partner. Don't ask me to join in.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:23:31 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

Suffice it to say that there are several that post in this forum that consider themselves to be left wing or right wing, but the wings themselves would disown them.




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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:29:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		What was it Twain said about any club that would have him as a member?




_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:36:46 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That was Groucho Marx, not Twain, surely?

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:37:58 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Nope Twain.....Groucho was funny,Twain was a literary genius.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:41:01 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Fair enough. Didn't realise he'd nicked that one.
Where in Twain did he find that? I don't think it's one I've read. (I'd hope that I'd remember it if I have.) Somewhere in the letters?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:53:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Fuck Moon,I owe you an apology....I searched and searched for that Twain quotation...and couldn't find it,till I searched Groucho Marx Quotations....and lo and behold there it was.
As I said ,I owe you an apology.....so "I'm sorry,you were right and I was wrong"
And have been for years.....curious.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 2:59:28 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		It's very easy to misattribute a good line, and they both had fine 'taches...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 3:29:49 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What was it Twain said about any club that would have him as a member?





Were you thinking of this one:

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.
Mark Twain



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 3:48:37 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That was Groucho Marx, not Twain, surely?


Dont mention Marx, you will only set Sanity off again.

Still, didnt Marx say "there aint no sanity clause" at some point.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 3:51:55 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Feh. Do we really want Sanitary spoiling a literary discussion?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 3:54:44 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		"Knock knock"......"Whos there"......"Is Lenin ? "

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 3:58:25 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		"Knock knock"..."Come in"..."You cunt!"

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 4:01:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What was it Twain said about any club that would have him as a member?





Were you thinking of this one:

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.
Mark Twain


No,moon had it right it was something Marx,Groucho that is,said....but I saw that one in my search of Twain's quotes...and the thought that came to mind is....the more things change,the more they stay the same(who said that I have no clue...nor do I care...lol)

p.s still awaiting that pm wherein we discuss You hurting me....really,really bad.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 4:23:37 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

The second consists of non-functional or status diversity. It is not useful. I see no reason to celebrate it.


Aylee, the example you gave to illustrate what you call "non-functional or status diversity" is not "non-functional or status diversity" - it is just plain stupidity. When I hear of someone attempting to build a house using just plumbers, I will give your claim serious consideration.

Do you have a serious example of what you mean by this? By serious I mean something that is not a strawman-type example, not contrived and likely to occur in the real world.

Between now and then ('cause I fear I might be waiting a while for your example) could you offer an example of any area of human behaviour where human performance is not characterised by diversity as requested?

If you are unable to offer such an example, do you then agree that a fundamental characteristic of human behaviour is its diversity?


Again, there are TWO types of diversity here. Useful and non-useful.

If I am going to build a house I am only interested in one type. Can you do the job I need you to do? So, I need a plumber, an electrician, yadda, yadda.

I am not interested in hiring someone based on race, language, age, sex, culture and hetero/homosexuality.

Celebrating an achievement is one thing. YAY! You made it through boot camp!

Celebrating your genes is ridiculous. YAY! My genes give me a skinnier body than you!

So have fun judging and placing value you on people because of their skin color or religion or sexual partner. Don't ask me to join in.

Unable or unwilling to provide a single serious example of your cherished "non-useful" diversity Aylee.

Unable or unwilling to abandon your strawman example.

Unable or unwilling to nominate a single instance of human behaviour/endeavour that isn't characterised by diversity.

Unable or unwilling to resolve the contradictions pointed out in your position.

Unable or unwilling to answer whether diversity is a fundamental feature of human behaviour of not.

Instead a series of comical attempts at a comical defence of a comical (mis)understanding/caricature of diversity. This position screams denial to me.

The diversity of life, of humans, of human behaviour, of Nature is all around us every second of every day. We can choose to recognise it, or choose to deny it. Like kids caught with their hands in the cookie jar who deny stealing the cookies, those who choose denial are only fooling themselves. Ultimately they are the only losers.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/27/2011 4:25:05 PM >

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RE: The changing face of America - 3/27/2011 4:55:32 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I will amend my last statement. Diversity does give us good ethnic restaurants. However an excellent Thai restaurant in every city is hardly something to have national concern over.


Taking your thought to its logical end point there should be no such thing as Thai rest. or a Italian rest. There should only be american cuisine. Silly?

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Profile   Post #: 120
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