RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself

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slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 6:23:06 AM)
They were not,I repeat not Isolated incidents.As a matter of fact they were so prevalent that Washington on a number of occasions had cause to issues orders against such actions....so yes,your statement,as far as it went,could be viewed as truthful.But it could also be said that many who fought under the banner of those same founders did in fact visit wars hardships on woman and children.That also would be a factual statement .War,as I said is dirty...believing one side in any such affair to be above that is,I am sorry to say, childlike.

truckinslave -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 6:28:01 AM)
quote: ,your statement,as far as it went,could be viewed as truthful Thank you. Winning!!! [:D]

ArizonaBossMan -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 6:32:57 AM)
Ya know, who cares what that preacher does? He can do that. This is the United States of America. Who is at fault for the riots in Afghanistan? Duh. The rioters. These muslims are in perpetual outrage. That has never changed. SO WHAT?!

PeonForHer -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:06:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Ya know, who cares what that preacher does? He can do that. This is the United States of America. Who is at fault for the riots in Afghanistan? Duh. The rioters. These muslims are in perpetual outrage. That has never changed. SO WHAT?! So it'd be sensible not to create even more of a war than you've already got.

thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:19:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: the american revolutionaries did target women and children of the tories. Care to try to back that up? Perhaps if you were to acquire a history book written for an adult you might disabuse yourself of your ignorance in this area...Then of course there is google for those who are alergic to books.

truckinslave -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:23:34 AM)
We already did this. You might review posts 258, 259, 260, 261, and 262. Mixing all that hostility with the stupid is a really bad idea, dude.

stellauk -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:35:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Ya know, who cares what that preacher does? He can do that. This is the United States of America. Who is at fault for the riots in Afghanistan? Duh. The rioters. These muslims are in perpetual outrage. That has never changed. SO WHAT?! So what? Well I can spell it out, but (1) I don't think you'll get it and (2) even if you do, you won't accept it. But let's give it a go, right? 1. This concept of 'freedom' that the more loonie right wing contingent among you keep going on about no longer exists. It's a crock of BS. Check out the PTA (Prevention of Terrorism Acts), you might also like to take a look around you and see stuff like homes being foreclosed, people losing jobs, others struggling to find work, others struggling to survive and the American economy resembling what tactfully I would describe as a dog's dinner. 2. America ain't Number One any more and hasn't been for some time. Before the world would pay attention to what the US President said, but since y'all decided to give a village idiot two terms most of us now keep up mainly for shits and giggles. It might have been different but starting two wars on a crock of bullshit and lies lost Americans a lot of credibility. 3. Understand that unlike you, who sees no difference between a Muslim and a terrorist, almost a full ten years after ONE terrorist attack, I can make a distinction between the loonie cross-waving Koran burning extreme right wing fascist element of American society, the more moderate, and probably deeply disenfranchised and disappointed conservatives who, together with what you would probably describe as libtards, make up a majority of decent, hard working Americans. 4. Also unlike you I don't have a superiority complex and a limited Americo-centric perspective of the world which is fed and played upon by plenty of made up stories and bullshit by right wing media concerns such as Fox News and anything else owned by people like Turner and Murdoch. Americans are not the only victims of Al Qaeda terrorist attacks you know. But the level of hatred and ignorance shown towards Muslims on these two threads has been quite staggering. Y'all must be so proud of yourselves for exercising your 'freedom' of personal self-expression but I also wonder whether you are just as proud of displaying just how bigoted and ignorant you appear to be as well. Is this part of what being American is really about? Is it? You know this is how it looks from the outside. Seems you guys just can't get through life without having some commonly perceived object of hatred, whether it be Muslims, Russians, Mexicans, or among the loonie right wing elements liberals, socialists, even your President. What's it like to have that 'freedom' without any sense of personal responsibility or consideration for others? You know, not to have any sort of consideration for all the US servicemen who are still out there, thousands of miles from their family, there on the frontline, in among all the danger, or even not to care about those who have died and the families who have been bereaved as a result of these wars. Not to mention all those servicemen who went out there, fought and survived, but they have come back with lives ruined as a result of stuff like PTSD, the ones who still remember, experience flashbacks, and those who have come back to nothing. I'm not even going to mention all the Iraqis and Afghanistanis who have died, been displaced, and suffered, and there's no point even mentioning it, because it won't change anything to you. They're not American see, they're something less, not worth any sort of consideration seeing as you've elected to label them all as terrorists and radicals. But please don't mind me, nor these words. They're not important right? I'm not an American, I don't share your Americo-centric views which keep you wrapped up in your own little world of illusions divorced from the reality of what is really going on in the world. This is just a lesser opinion from a lesser person. Don't let it stop you from being a proud, patriotic American who has the freedom to say what he likes, when he likes, how he likes, about who he likes and fuck the consequences.

slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:43:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: ,your statement,as far as it went,could be viewed as truthful Thank you. Winning!!! [:D] You measure winning in a puzzling way.Shall I continue with your education and point you towards the many edicts and laws passed by those same Founding Fathers in which the property of Tories was confiscated by rebel authorities as the war lingered on. Or perhaps you could look up the number of loyalists who fled this land,leaving behind property and holdings in fear of the rapacious manner in which the victorious side intended to deal with them?By the way their fear was well grounded. There are few saints in war,death and destruction have a way of turning a man against what Lincoln referred to as "our better angels".Your childlike need to keep the Founders upon some pedestal in which they are no longer subject to human frailties is cute,but as I said child like....so now do your victory dance and pat your self on the back....you are safe in your willful ignorance.

kdsub -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:51:56 AM)
It was not only a war of Independence but also a civil war... Just keep in mind that many of these Tories were combatants in the war not innocents. Butch

thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 8:52:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave We already did this. You might review posts 258, 259, 260, 261, and 262. Mixing all that hostility with the stupid is a really bad idea, dude. No "we" did not. I have simply pointed out the ignorance that you seem so proud of. Ignorance is not all that difficult to eliminate for those who wish not to be so.

slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 9:58:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub It was not only a war of Independence but also a civil war... Just keep in mind that many of these Tories were combatants in the war not innocents. Butch No one is claiming otherwise,at least no one that I know of....acts were committed on both sides against the other that today would be considered war crimes.A number of these with official(Colonial gov't on the one side Loyalist on the other) seal of approval....war,indeed,is hell.

Aneirin -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 5:53:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellauk quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Ya know, who cares what that preacher does? He can do that. This is the United States of America. Who is at fault for the riots in Afghanistan? Duh. The rioters. These muslims are in perpetual outrage. That has never changed. SO WHAT?! So what? Well I can spell it out, but (1) I don't think you'll get it and (2) even if you do, you won't accept it. But let's give it a go, right? 1. This concept of 'freedom' that the more loonie right wing contingent among you keep going on about no longer exists. It's a crock of BS. Check out the PTA (Prevention of Terrorism Acts), you might also like to take a look around you and see stuff like homes being foreclosed, people losing jobs, others struggling to find work, others struggling to survive and the American economy resembling what tactfully I would describe as a dog's dinner. 2. America ain't Number One any more and hasn't been for some time. Before the world would pay attention to what the US President said, but since y'all decided to give a village idiot two terms most of us now keep up mainly for shits and giggles. It might have been different but starting two wars on a crock of bullshit and lies lost Americans a lot of credibility. 3. Understand that unlike you, who sees no difference between a Muslim and a terrorist, almost a full ten years after ONE terrorist attack, I can make a distinction between the loonie cross-waving Koran burning extreme right wing fascist element of American society, the more moderate, and probably deeply disenfranchised and disappointed conservatives who, together with what you would probably describe as libtards, make up a majority of decent, hard working Americans. 4. Also unlike you I don't have a superiority complex and a limited Americo-centric perspective of the world which is fed and played upon by plenty of made up stories and bullshit by right wing media concerns such as Fox News and anything else owned by people like Turner and Murdoch. Americans are not the only victims of Al Qaeda terrorist attacks you know. But the level of hatred and ignorance shown towards Muslims on these two threads has been quite staggering. Y'all must be so proud of yourselves for exercising your 'freedom' of personal self-expression but I also wonder whether you are just as proud of displaying just how bigoted and ignorant you appear to be as well. Is this part of what being American is really about? Is it? You know this is how it looks from the outside. Seems you guys just can't get through life without having some commonly perceived object of hatred, whether it be Muslims, Russians, Mexicans, or among the loonie right wing elements liberals, socialists, even your President. What's it like to have that 'freedom' without any sense of personal responsibility or consideration for others? You know, not to have any sort of consideration for all the US servicemen who are still out there, thousands of miles from their family, there on the frontline, in among all the danger, or even not to care about those who have died and the families who have been bereaved as a result of these wars. Not to mention all those servicemen who went out there, fought and survived, but they have come back with lives ruined as a result of stuff like PTSD, the ones who still remember, experience flashbacks, and those who have come back to nothing. I'm not even going to mention all the Iraqis and Afghanistanis who have died, been displaced, and suffered, and there's no point even mentioning it, because it won't change anything to you. They're not American see, they're something less, not worth any sort of consideration seeing as you've elected to label them all as terrorists and radicals. But please don't mind me, nor these words. They're not important right? I'm not an American, I don't share your Americo-centric views which keep you wrapped up in your own little world of illusions divorced from the reality of what is really going on in the world. This is just a lesser opinion from a lesser person. Don't let it stop you from being a proud, patriotic American who has the freedom to say what he likes, when he likes, how he likes, about who he likes and fuck the consequences. Stella, once again, Bravo !

kdsub -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 9:29:14 PM)
I respect you and stella's opinion on many subjects but her post, you seem to agree with, is childish, naive, and narrow minded...Really quite below her normal intelligent insight. You both sound like jealous siblings to a big brother. Butch

Aneirin -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 9:48:23 PM)
On the contrary, examine what she is saying, for you will see much of it in this forum, but if it is you are thinking there is jealousy in my mind, think again, for Britain has also been a super power at one time and the people of Britain have seen that power wane. Perhaps the same is now happening to America, America has passed it's peak and is also descending for it sure looks that way with what you lot report on and what we see from over here. But in the loss of UK world privledge guess what, it's nicer now, we no longer have to go around bullying the world, sure there are still some pillocks into that, but from my observations many Britons are quite happy being inhabitants of an island off the coast of Europe, for we are learning not to fear everyone and where there is a deficit of fear, people are more relaxed. The youth, most of them don't care for Britain's past glory because it does not serve their futures and many of them are intelligent enough to understand the role of policing the world makes one's country a target for those who don't like being policed. But as the youth get older, more of Britain's old guard fade away and with them goes the memories of what it was like to hide behind an iron fist.

tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 10:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I respect you and stella's opinion on many subjects but her post, you seem to agree with, is childish, naive, and narrow minded...Really quite below her normal intelligent insight. You both sound like jealous siblings to a big brother. Butch Kdsub, stellauk was responding to drivel from ArizonaBossMan, whose posts ooze bigotry arrogance and ignorance from every pixel. His aggressive provocations invite impassioned responses. Reading stella's post I was struck how easily she could have been describing Australian rednecks. Most of the time all it would take is to substitute 'Australia' for 'America' and bingo! you've got a pretty accurate picture of my local rednecks and bigots. One thing that strikes me whenever I have the misfortune to encounter this type of person is that, for all their opinionated belligerence about the world outside Australia, very few of them have ever visited the non-Western world - in fact most have never left Australia, not even for a holiday. If it is suggested to them that they would benefit from actually visiting a place like Iraq or Iran or Egypt and seeing things for themselves, they tend to find sad weak excuses not to even consider the idea. ("Australia has everything I want to see"/"too many wogs"/"there's nothing there to interest me".... you get the picture. They're comfortable in their ignorance and choose to avoid anything that might challenge their (imaginary) world view. So these people know virtually nothing about the outside world bar what the media feeds them. Basic cultural customs defeat them entirely - they're flummoxed by Hindu bans on meat-eating or Muslim bans on alcohol. They arrogantly assume that the standards that Westerners expect of each other are shared by non-Western people and apply everywhere on the planet. They judge everybody by these standards and are loudly outraged when they find other people play by different rules, not the rules these rednecks insist must be imposed on the non-Western world. Their first and only solution to any issue is violence. Then they shriek loudly in wounded outrage whenever a non-Westerner adopts the very same strategies they recommend. So, in that sense, stella's post rang true for me. If your rednecks are much the same as our rednecks then I wonder if there isn't more than a ring of truth in stella's post for you guys too .....

Hippiekinkster -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/6/2011 11:42:12 PM)
quote: Tweaky: Kdsub, stellauk was responding to drivel from ArizonaBossMan, whose posts ooze bigotry arrogance and ignorance from every pixel. His aggressive provocations invite impassioned responses. Well, I certainly wouldn't waste a single second responding to a sockpuppet, but if Stella gets off on it, ... Really bizarre fetish, though, making believe sockpuppets are real. From your description, I'd say Ami and Aussie rednecks spring from the same stick... Scots-Irish protestants. That would be a fascinating thesis. One thing is very likely true; that particular subculture is quite unlikely to possess a passport. You have adequately described their xenophobic characteristics; no need to revisit them. One thing that is rarely touched on is the level of cognitive dissonance relative to non-redmecks. C-D is a symptom of the degree to which fear - particularly the fear of death - exisits in that subculture. C-D and Terrror Management are outside the scope of this thread, however. (I'm sure you have noticed how difficult it is to have a discussion about concepts on this forum. Most threads are Lowest Common Denominator threads about Current Events. I'll link you to a thread about C-D if you want, and I can find it) It is from that subculture that the more extreme forms of Protestant Cults spring, too, and that is what Jones practices - "Redneck Religion.

tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/7/2011 1:08:20 PM)
Yes. You might well be right. It's a fascinating place to study - that point where individual and social dynamics meet , why certain ideologies make sense to certain people, how fear and ignorance manifest themselves in political perspectives and social phobias. But that's hardly for here .... For me, this thread discusses what happens when two similar positions in different cultures find themselves in a position of antagonism. I find it hard to distinguish between either the motives or the activities of Jones and the mullahs who organised and directed the riots. For mine, if you put Jones into Afghani culture, he'd be one of those organising the riot. If you put the mullahs into Western culture, they'd be the ones burning the Korans. Perhaps that's one more reason why they find themselves in conflict - they recognise so much of themselves in each other, and they sure don't like what they see. To which we can add, neither does anyone else.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/7/2011 2:12:04 PM)
Tweaky - excellent point about the interchangeability of Jones and the rioters. I find myself in the uncomfortable position of being thoroughly disgusted by Jones' action, whilst simultaneously defending his right to perform such action. Jones is morally repugnant to me. But what is also repugnant to me is the attempt by some to assert that the murders were no worse than the burning of a book, and that Jones is responsible for those murders. I have yet to see any argument based on anything other than Appeals to Emotion. Moving along, here's the thread about cognitive dissonance. I could have written the OP better. http://www.collarchat.com/m_3372364/mpage_1/tm.htm I think a strong case can be made for conservatives, regardless of their culture, being more prone to Cog.D., and also a case can be made connecting conservatism to well-developed Terror Management coping strategies. A belief in an afterlife is, IMO, the definitive coping technique. That would also be an interesting thesis. Which means it would go over like a Led Zeppelin. (I mean, look how many threads here are the intellectual equivalent of "Look at Kim Kardashian's Dress!") I think I'll start a thread rating system for P&R. [sm=banana.gif][sm=angel.gif][sm=hippie.gif]

kdsub -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/7/2011 2:36:59 PM)
quote: But what is also repugnant to me is the attempt by some to assert that the murders were no worse than the burning of a book I don't know about the others...but I've said more than once I believe the killing is the real crime here... but knowingly instigating the killing is just as heinous and deserves equal punishment. This opinion should not be hard to understand or need proof except in the actions of those involved. Butch

ashjor911 -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/7/2011 3:58:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: stellauk quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Ya know, who cares what that preacher does? He can do that. This is the United States of America. Who is at fault for the riots in Afghanistan? Duh. The rioters. These muslims are in perpetual outrage. That has never changed. SO WHAT?! So what? Well I can spell it out, but (1) I don't think you'll get it and (2) even if you do, you won't accept it. But let's give it a go, right? 1. This concept of 'freedom' that the more loonie right wing contingent among you keep going on about no longer exists. It's a crock of BS. Check out the PTA (Prevention of Terrorism Acts), you might also like to take a look around you and see stuff like homes being foreclosed, people losing jobs, others struggling to find work, others struggling to survive and the American economy resembling what tactfully I would describe as a dog's dinner. 2. America ain't Number One any more and hasn't been for some time. Before the world would pay attention to what the US President said, but since y'all decided to give a village idiot two terms most of us now keep up mainly for shits and giggles. It might have been different but starting two wars on a crock of bullshit and lies lost Americans a lot of credibility. 3. Understand that unlike you, who sees no difference between a Muslim and a terrorist, almost a full ten years after ONE terrorist attack, I can make a distinction between the loonie cross-waving Koran burning extreme right wing fascist element of American society, the more moderate, and probably deeply disenfranchised and disappointed conservatives who, together with what you would probably describe as libtards, make up a majority of decent, hard working Americans. 4. Also unlike you I don't have a superiority complex and a limited Americo-centric perspective of the world which is fed and played upon by plenty of made up stories and bullshit by right wing media concerns such as Fox News and anything else owned by people like Turner and Murdoch. Americans are not the only victims of Al Qaeda terrorist attacks you know. But the level of hatred and ignorance shown towards Muslims on these two threads has been quite staggering. Y'all must be so proud of yourselves for exercising your 'freedom' of personal self-expression but I also wonder whether you are just as proud of displaying just how bigoted and ignorant you appear to be as well. Is this part of what being American is really about? Is it? You know this is how it looks from the outside. Seems you guys just can't get through life without having some commonly perceived object of hatred, whether it be Muslims, Russians, Mexicans, or among the loonie right wing elements liberals, socialists, even your President. What's it like to have that 'freedom' without any sense of personal responsibility or consideration for others? You know, not to have any sort of consideration for all the US servicemen who are still out there, thousands of miles from their family, there on the frontline, in among all the danger, or even not to care about those who have died and the families who have been bereaved as a result of these wars. Not to mention all those servicemen who went out there, fought and survived, but they have come back with lives ruined as a result of stuff like PTSD, the ones who still remember, experience flashbacks, and those who have come back to nothing. I'm not even going to mention all the Iraqis and Afghanistanis who have died, been displaced, and suffered, and there's no point even mentioning it, because it won't change anything to you. They're not American see, they're something less, not worth any sort of consideration seeing as you've elected to label them all as terrorists and radicals. But please don't mind me, nor these words. They're not important right? I'm not an American, I don't share your Americo-centric views which keep you wrapped up in your own little world of illusions divorced from the reality of what is really going on in the world. This is just a lesser opinion from a lesser person. Don't let it stop you from being a proud, patriotic American who has the freedom to say what he likes, when he likes, how he likes, about who he likes and fuck the consequences. Stella, once again, Bravo ! Remarkable

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