RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (Full Version)

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Hippiekinkster -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 12:26:57 AM)

To paraphrase, "I may not agree with what a man wants to burn, but I'll defend to the death his right to burn it."
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tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 12:44:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

He burned a book. How is that promoting violence?


He knew exactly what the outcome would be. He knew he was, at very best, recklessly endangering lives. He had been fully appraised of the potency of the forces he was setting in motion. Was it Petreaus who pointed out to him that his actions would endanger American troop's lives?

Reactions of the type we have witnessed are not reasonable, not sane, not logically or morally defensible but they are entirely predictable - they are products of the same narrow mindedness, self righteousness, absolutism and bigotry that Jones epitomises. A position enabled in toto by the moral absolutist claims of monotheist religion. Had the positions been reversed and Jones a Muslim in Mazar-I-Sharif, does anyone seriously doubt he would have been at the front of the mob, egging them on and calling for blood?

If people are suggesting he is not responsible for the consequences of his actions - the hallmark of adult responsibility let's remember - they are effectively saying he is deranged. He may well be. He cannot IMHO claim a defence of innocence, the only question is whether he is sane or not.

To my eyes Jones knowingly set in motion a chain of events that resulted in the massacre. Without his cynically reckless narcissistic self promoting self interested intervention, 12 more human beings would be alive today and the world would be a slightly saner, healthier place



isoLadyOwner -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:18:15 AM)

The Muslims who beheaded UN workers are responsible for beheading UN workers.

There will always be something for Islamists to take offense at. Be it a political cartoon, providing girls with an education, allowing women to drive, or a preacher burning a piece of paper in Florida.



Aylee -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:21:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Alee

To me it would be different if he were not warned... Let me put it this way...Common sense told you and me that if he burned that book someone...most likely Americans would be killed. I knew it...you knew it...he knew it...and he did it anyway.

To me he is a murderer...worse then the people who did the killing. They did it out of ignorance and the worship of a bastardized version of a great religion. He did it knowing full well he was putting lives in danger.

He is not a Christian… he is a psychotic megalomaniac that at best deserves to be committed but I’d rather see him locked up for the rest of his life.

Butch


Burning a book, ANY book, is not the same as killing someone. This dude, halfway around the world, burned my holy book so I am going to kill this innocent person is NOT a justified response. This is not eye for an eye. This is not 'punishment to fit the crime.'

What happened to Islam being the fucking religion of peace?

These folks are nothing but thugs. They are using terror to promote their religion.

The preacher in Florida has the RIGHT to burn the Koran. Islamist killers do not have the right to enforce their 'holy laws' upon him by killing innocents unless he toes their line. Period fucking stop.



tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:27:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: isoLadyOwner

The Muslims who beheaded UN workers are responsible for beheading UN workers.

There will always be something for Islamists to take offense at. Be it a political cartoon, providing girls with an education, allowing women to drive, or a preacher burning a piece of paper in Florida.

So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?

Why would any sane person make that choice?



isoLadyOwner -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:31:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: isoLadyOwner

The West's "gift" of Democracy or whatever Obama is getting people killed for in Afghanistan will surely make the UN's sacrifices worthwhile.

Thirty seven US soldiers died in Afghanistan this March in Obama's Operation Enduring Freedom.

Perhaps the people of Afghanistan will settle down and behead fewer innocent people after a few more years of occupation.




What in the fuck are you babbling about?

Remember that cowboy guy who led us into Afghanistan?



Of course I remember "that cowboy guy who led us into Afghanistan".

I also remember that Obama is the President currently prosecuting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and interjecting the USA in a Libyan Civil War to the tune of $550,000,000.

Are the Depleted Uranium Warheads Obama has been killing people with in Libya any less toxic because he is a Democrat?

I am saying that Obama is a hypocrite who continues to kill people in the Middle East on a daily basis and his supporters are responsible for far more bloodshed than Terry Jones ever will be.

Dropping Depleted Uranium Warheads is a good way to get rid of Nuclear waste.

Maybe Obama and Hillary want to be rid of that awful stuff and Libya looked like a good place to dump it.




isoLadyOwner -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:35:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: isoLadyOwner

The Muslims who beheaded UN workers are responsible for beheading UN workers.

There will always be something for Islamists to take offense at. Be it a political cartoon, providing girls with an education, allowing women to drive, or a preacher burning a piece of paper in Florida.

So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?

Why would any sane person make that choice?


Why would any sane person use Depleted Uranium Warheads on behalf of Muslim Insurgents in a Libyan Civil War? Obama and Hillary know and humanitarian reasons don't ring true.

Terry Jones is a citizen of the USA, he did not surrender his right to free speech when Obama ascended to the Presidency.




tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 1:56:40 AM)

Would you like to answer the questions I posed please isoLadyOwner?

The questions were:
quote:

tweakabelle

So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?

Why would any sane person make that choice?


Pretty simple straightforward questions - yes, no and I don't know are all perfectly adequate answers, if that helps.



isoLadyOwner -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 2:03:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Would you like to answer the questions I posed please isoLadyOwner?

The questions were:
quote:

tweakabelle

So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?

Why would any sane person make that choice?


Pretty simple straightforward questions - yes, no and I don't know are all perfectly adequate answers, if that helps.


"So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?"

Yes its OK.

It is OK because Terry Jones is a citizen of the USA, he did not surrender his right to free speech when Obama ascended to the Presidency.

The foreseeability of murderous Islamists beheading UN workers being a probable direct consequence of burning that paper seems to be religious profiling (although this behavior is hardly unexpected).

"Why would any sane person make that choice?"

Responding to your second question would require me to accept that Terry Jones is sane.

Yes, no, or I don't know aren't adequate responses when I do not accept the proposition that Terry Jones is sane.








tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 2:42:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: isoLadyOwner




"So it's OK to choose to "burn a bit of paper" even if you're fully aware that a probable direct consequence of burning that paper is an unknown number of deaths to innocent people?"

Yes its OK.

It is OK because Terry Jones is a citizen of the USA, he did not surrender his right to free speech when Obama ascended to the Presidency.


First of all, thank you for addressing the question directly.
Sadly, I am not convinced this is a question of the right to free speech. No one has denied Jones his rights as far as I can recall. What is being questioned is his judgement. And perhaps his morals.

It's a peculiar moral system that insists his 'right' to burn a piece of paper takes precedence over an unknown number of innocent deaths that will occur if that paper is burnt. Frankly I'm glad I'm unfamiliar with such a moral scale.

How does burning "a piece of paper" (of no legal consequence whatsoever ) become more precious, more important than human life?


quote:

iosLadyOwner
"Why would any sane person make that choice?"

Responding to your second question would require me to accept that Terry Jones is sane.

Yes, no, or I don't know aren't adequate responses when I do not accept the proposition that Terry Jones is sane.


While I share your reservations about Jones' sanity, the questions asks about "any sane person" not just Jones. It could be that you are obliquely conceding that it's insane to burn bits of paper when you know it's almost certain to cause innocent deaths. If this is the case, I'm afraid I need you to state that clearly.

So sorry but I feel obliged to put the question to you again:

Why would any sane person make [Jones'] choice?







Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:30:06 AM)

isolady's overlooking a pretty basic point here: the issue isn't some cretin in Florida's right to burn a few books, it's more the attention seeking way he chose to do so, and the fuss in the media over it.
That's what caused the trouble.



Charles6682 -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:30:39 AM)

Did they just now find out about this stupid white trash moronic preacher just now?!Dam,I guess not much news goes on the TV over there!



Charles6682 -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:32:26 AM)

This moronic preacher was in Tampa a few months ago to hold some event.I think about 10 people showed up.10,I say!!I'm surprised even that many showed up.This guy is a hack.He just wanted media attention.



Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:34:31 AM)

Yep.
Hopefully the tosser will be getting a lot more in the months to come, as well. [;)]



Charles6682 -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:34:44 AM)

For once,I agree.

What I find odd about this controversy is how, when one ditz in the West burns a Koran or draws a cartoon of Mohammad with a bomb in his turban and that somehow justifies Muslims on the other side of the globe rioting and murdering innocents by the score, while when they burn Christians or Hindus or 'witches' or stone rape victims we just yawn. No one over here really even hears about it.

Just another day, you know?

Muslims are free to walk anywhere in the West and our laws protect them, yet if we walk in their midst we must be "respectful' of their ways, in other words be very afraid or scared to be ourselves.

Call me a rebel but Ive always disagreed with such double standards.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/2/2011 11:29:19 AM >

_____________________________




Hippiekinkster -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:41:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

isolady's overlooking a pretty basic point here: the issue isn't some cretin in Florida's right to burn a few books, it's more the attention seeking way he chose to do so, and the fuss in the media over it.
That's what caused the trouble.

It doesn't matter.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

And that's all there is to it.



Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:45:30 AM)

Not my point.
If people are going to hold idiot boy culpable for the deaths, then so are the media outlets who've been publicising his burning desire to destroy a few qurans ever since he got a lot of attention over bottling out of doing so last year.



ClassIsInSession -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:46:11 AM)

You cannot end the fighting by inciting more of it. What this preacher did was cause the deaths of innocent people. He knew by doing it he would incite the same fundamentalist fervor in a different religious segment than his own. It is like leaving a loaded gun on a playground knowing full well that the odds are high a child will pick it up and someone will die.

If he wants to believe Christianity is the way to eternal life, that is his right, most certainly as it is just as much my own, but, he is taking part in the same sort of tyranny, if only by symbolic action, of the Spanish Inquisitors or the christians that led the crusade.

The teaching of Christ are explicit in holding the one law most important, to love thy neighbor as thyself. This man disobeyed that simple law with his actions.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:47:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not my point.
If people are going to hold idiot boy culpable for the deaths, then so are the media outlets who've been publicising his burning desire to destroy a few qurans ever since he got a lot of attention over bottling out of doing so last year.
Who is idiot boy?



Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/3/2011 4:55:02 AM)

Jones the book burner.
Who else would I be referring to?



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