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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 9:59:30 PM   
stellauk


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Personally I have a theory that D/s is strongly linked to creativity and much of that what we identify as being dominant or submissive comes out of the soul, rather than the personality or nature.

Any creative process is actually a cycle of four stages - examination, intuition, imagination and application. The second stage of this cycle is spiritual, it comes from deep within and is expressed through flows of energy which we exchange with others through interaction. Interaction is important, because without any interaction there is no creativity.

This is why for many people BDSM is something which is sexual, erotic, sensual. What better example of human creativity is there than the very act of sexual intercourse, which gives us the possibility of creating a completely new human being just like us?

But it is much more than this. It is living. Creativity is a fundamental element of human nature, we are not born dominant, we are not born submissive, but we are born creative, and any form of creativity, from writing a story, taking a photograph, cooking a meal, making love, working, brings us fulfillment and pleasure. We identify ourselves with that part of the process or cycles which we feel most comfortable with fulfilling.

It is through BDSM that we learn to share that deep sense of fulfillment and pleasure through intimacy with others, irrespective of our gender, our sexual orientation, and the role we adopt in such interaction. It does not matter, because whatever role we assume is creative and the creativity and interaction together, with the flows of energy between us, is what brings us fulfillment, pleasure and satisfaction mutually in our intimacy.

It doesn't matter what role you assume, because in the relationship and interaction, or dynamic so to speak, you are being creative, you are giving, you are part of a relationship which is mutually creative and mutually rewarding. The Dominant for example provides guidance, leadership, pain, and the submissive for example through service, through accepting pain and discomfort for the Dominant's pleasure, through submission and making themselves the instrument of the will of the Dominant.

There is D/s in almost any human interaction you can think of, if you see it from a certain perspective and the creative process as a whole requires both our control and our submission. The problems we face when it comes to acceptance is that we are conditioned from an early age to think and behave in certain ways, to interact with others in certain ways, and through this we are encouraged to accept and embrace various prejudices about relationships, about love, about human interpersonal communication which perhaps don't exist in reality. We are conditioned away from certain behaviours and it is perhaps accepting once again these behaviours which makes our own individual personal evolution challenging as we become who we identify as.

But whichever way you look at it it all comes back to creativity and interaction - which is why almost all that we do and associate with BDSM is based on action and reaction, and it is also based on a relationship which is not mutual or equal, but inequal. Why is this so?

It is so because, I feel, we are sharing one creative process or cycle together between two people rather than each having their own individual cycle of creativity in the relationship where it is possible to interact and create for others without engaging in any sort of dynamic. Here in BDSM the creative process or cycle is shared, both Dominant and submissive share the same cycle, and this is why no cycle can ever complete itself, nor any dynamic work, without the cooperation and creativity of both working in unison or harmony. The Dominant needs the submissive in order to complete the cycle or process and vice versa.

Without that cooperation - the decision of the Dominant, and the cooperation and the obedience of the submissive - the cycle breaks down and so too does the dynamic. Each play their part, each are being creative with the objective of seeking the fulfillment and satisfaction of both, each one is giving something and contributing to the cycle, and this is also why, when you stop and think about it, your dynamics and relationships are all based on a complex arrangement of different cycles, cycles within each other, cycles which occur sequentially, some randomly, some in unison and simultaneously, but all of them requiring the creativity and input from both in the dynamic.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 4/2/2011 10:01:08 PM >


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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 10:04:27 PM   
avena


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I have always been a submissive personality type. So I guess you might say I was 'born that way'. But after being stomped on quite painfully, relatively early in my life, by people who wanted to take advantage of my submissive tendancies, I learned to hide that submissiveness behind a very strong front. In fact, I got so good at hiding it, that everyone around me was absolutely convinced I was a dominant personality type.

I had no idea what BDSM was until about 5 or 6 years ago. I stumbled into it online, with a friend of mine actually, who eventually became my first Dom. We had only just begun exploring this whole new realm of self realization, when His death brought an abrupt end to things.

After that, I went vanilla for several years. But it didn't feel right, so I slowly came wandering back. But I was confused and felt rather lost, and spent a lot of time trying to figure out where I really belonged. If I was truly submissive, dominant, or somewhere in between. It took a while, but I unearthed my long buried submissiveness, and in it, found a place that I belonged. But it took D walking back into my life, to really bring it home.

Being his sub...kneeling at his feet...I AM home.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 10:06:43 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Except for those who really believe they arrived in this world from the womb already a Dom, Domme, or submissive we all trasitioned into this type of life that we call D/s. Can you recall how it was when your first made the trip and the problems you found and how you handled them?

The problems for the "D" type I believe were different that those of the "s" type so if you can be bold enough to so state them, it may well be helpfull to those just now arriving.

What say you?

CP

Hmm, my biggest hurdle was in accepting that it was ok to trust someone else to take the lead.

I am not submissive, I never have been...I have always been an independent, know it all, POS that believed only I had the answers Couple that up with an intense NEED to actually HURT, both physically and emotionally...you have a time bomb on your hands lol.

I had to learn to accept that another just might be strong enough; both emotionally and physically, to literally stop me, toss me behind him, and keep me there...by force if necessary. Once I accepted that, the desire to keep him happy became easy.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 10:16:38 PM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
But whichever way you look at it it all comes back to creativity and interaction - which is why almost all that we do and associate with BDSM is based on action and reaction, and it is also based on a relationship which is not mutual or equal, but inequal. Why is this so?



While I like and agree with almost all of your post, this one paragraph troubles me.   Indeed, the post right after yours brings out the part that troubles me and your last 2 paragraphs seem to accentuate it.

The relationship IS mutual!!!!!!   A sub DOES enjoy being submissive, it is in our nature and it gives us pleasure to do so.   A Dom DOES enjoy being dominant, it is in their nature and it gives them pleasure to do so.  If it pleases both, how can you say that this NOT mutual?

Equal is a similar but more complex question.   I view equality as a level of mutual respect and (to a lesser extent) effort.  Submissives tend to take great pleasure in pleasing their Dom (especially Goreans) and they do tend to go to greater effort, but how many of us have seen a Dom go to great effort to set up a dream fantasy for His/Her sub?   Both efforts are a labor of love and both take pleasure in pleasing the other.

Mutual and equal is more about enjoyment and fulfillment than anything else.   If both respect, love, and desire to enjoy life WITH their partner then it works.   When disrespect sets in.....it falls apart, regardless of the nature of the relationship.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 10:24:47 PM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

Personally I have a theory that D/s is strongly linked to creativity and much of that what we identify as being dominant or submissive comes out of the soul, rather than the personality or nature.




Nope. Completely disagree. I think there are a lot that don't have a creative bone in their body. They only do what is textbook and it doesn't matter one bit who or how they interact with their partner.

I think it's chemistry, not creativity, that brings out the best.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 10:53:26 PM   
girlygurl


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In my past relationships I was submissive, although I had no name or label for it.

I was about 32 when I had my first BDSM experience. I loved it! The dominance, the kink in bed, the single tail that he made, the corset he made for me, the eyebolts he put in the ceiling to restrain me... all that I experienced and I just thought we were having great sex
I had no idea of this BDSM life. I couldn't even tell you what the letters stood for. I had no idea that others had the same desires, needs, and wants that I had. I don't like to admit it, but I was pretty naive on the subject of kink and the like. There were times I questioned my desires and thoughts, and often thought I was a freak for such thoughts.

At the age of 42 I met a man who changed my life. Through discussion, and getting to know one another I discovered that I wasn't alone in my thoughts. He opened doors that I didn't know existed. Over time He not only lead me to be completely free with my desires, He also introduced me to "things" I wouldn't have ever considered participating in.

There was never a discussion with Sir about defining me as a submissive. I just am.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/2/2011 11:11:10 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

I think it's chemistry, not creativity, that brings out the best.

THAT I agree with.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 3:17:20 AM   
lally2


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i personally dont think that you can just decide to be a sub and then go off and be one without there being at least some element of need or desire or personality trait already present.  you have to really WANT this at some core level to withstand the bumps and twists this relationship style brings with it.

so, with that said, ive always been a sub, but what i found very difficult to learn was letting go of the threads of control id always had with regard to choice, decisions, acceptance and so on up until the moment i stepped fully into Ds and Ms.

it isnt about letting go of ego, i realise that, but it kinda feels like that.  letting go of choice and control over my body and mind to another was a big struggle.  was ok when we were doing something i liked or wanted to do, but when a D took me down another route the tendancy was to think WTF!

it was a long learning curve and wanting this helped me to stick with it.

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 3:29:18 AM   
myotherself


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I echo what Lally has so eloquently said.

I hated 'normal' sex. The sensations always felt muted and vague and I wanted to really FEEL. I did have a bf who did a bit of tying up, which was nice. But I always wanted someone to just take me when he wanted to, in whatever way he wanted, preferably leaving me bruised and sore afterwards. That made me feel so sexually desirable it makes me all 'swishy' inside to think about it

I 'discovered' bdsm in my late 30s through a rather convoluted route, and it's taken me until now to totally embrace my slave nature. I have a man who does what he wants with my body, when he wants to. He might want to beat me, bite me or ... anything else And I finally feel like a sated, happy, desired sexual being.

At the beginning of our relationship we discussed our limits and they pretty much matched. I know the things that would have me running screaming are no-go's for him too. So now, he gets to decide. It wasn't easy at the start, particularly when I just didn't want to do what he wanted, or I wasn't in the mood. But now I'm working on getting over that and the reward is totally worth the effort.


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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 3:48:13 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Except for those who really believe they arrived in this world from the womb already a Dom, Domme, or submissive we all trasitioned into this type of life that we call D/s. Can you recall how it was when your first made the trip and the problems you found and how you handled them?

The problems for the "D" type I believe were different that those of the "s" type so if you can be bold enough to so state them, it may well be helpfull to those just now arriving.

What say you?

CP

Interesting question.
I don't remember entering this lifestyle formally. Theee wasn't a 'lifestyle' I knew of for many years. I just remember being different, very, and experimental and risk taking.
But I do remember, of course, being submissive and enslaved and feeling that that was the way I was born and deeply so.
As I am a twin my sense of being conjoined to another is emotional. And so as a slave it was happy/pain to constantly be processing emotional masochism. Until it wasn't. Until the emotional masochism outweighed what I felt I was receiving. That indeed I was getting nothing in terms of energy back.
And with that realisation I began to switch as it was the only thing that got me out of a limdo.
Now I DO remember deciding to change to the other side of the kneel.
This feels now like I can be whomever and whatever I want to be. And choose. And be in control.
I have taken all of those skills that I experienced and want to learn from and was curious about as a submissive.
Rope work, the landing of a cane or a crop, the sensation of a collar, the touch and the feel of latex, sensation play, asphixiation, smacling, the strength of a whip on the skin and probably much more. But most of all I am finding the understanding of the dynamic instinctual and natural now and free from the emotional cramps that so beset me.

My slave likes it too.
All good.



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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 3:50:34 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
.

it isnt about letting go of ego, i realise that, but it kinda feels like that.

Quoted 'cos I loves ya lally


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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 3:57:01 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:


This is why for many people BDSM is something which is sexual, erotic, sensual. What better example of human creativity

stella: I've requoted you with a slight change of meaning.....
My feeling is that bdsm is creative and inspirational and yet it's also instinctual.
So would the concept of creative instinct be a good one to work with?
And how lol..........


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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 4:10:06 AM   
kalikshama


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OP - I've always appreciated kinky or rough sex, was delighted when I stumbled across BDSM in 1997, had a bit of a conflict between feminism and submission, which I have long resolved.

quote:

Personally I have a theory that D/s is strongly linked to creativity and much of that what we identify as being dominant or submissive comes out of the soul, rather than the personality or nature. Any creative process is actually a cycle of four stages - examination, intuition, imagination and application. The second stage of this cycle is spiritual, it comes from deep within and is expressed through flows of energy which we exchange with others through interaction. Interaction is important, because without any interaction there is no creativity.


Stella,

As usual, another thought provoking post. My husband certainly expressed creativity through BDSM. All those trips to Home Depot, all that time in the basement, leading to very happy times in the basement. I always appreciate all the work Doms put into a scene and perceive them to have a much more difficult role as sexual submission is effortless for me. I don't see myself as expressing creativity but oh, my, the flow of energy!

KK

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 4:16:39 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsBoy

Today he got angry and used me as a punching bag.  Did I like it?  As a matter of fact, I didn't, and was quite pissed when it happened.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's his right to do so.  Your relationships may vary.




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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 4:54:46 AM   
stellauk


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Coming back... Is not chemistry and mutuality an essential part of human interaction and sharing of intimacy? Is not instinct something else which comes from within (like inspiration) resulting in thinking or the outward expression of emotion and feeling?

The perspective is individual of course, but it was something I felt worth sharing..

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 6:34:51 AM   
Ishtarr


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I've been tying myself up for longer than I can remember (my mom tells a story of finding me in the morning tied to my bed with my own belt as a 4 year old... scared the crap out of her, cause she thought I was trying to hang myself).

I've also been into powerplay for as long as I can remember. Looking back now at the way I played as a child, I've always looked to be controlled.

In my teens, when I stated to explore my sexuality, I didn't immediately link my desire for domination and bondage to sexual feelings, because what my shy and incompetent boyfriends did in bed wasn't in any way related to feelings of being dominated.
It wasn't until late teens that I discovered BDSM and felt like everything suddenly made sense.

Since then, I've been trying to make sense of my own needs and desires, and trying to get over the massive disappointment I faced when I discovered that most people in the BDSM culture expect people who want to be dominated to be submissive.
I don't consider myself to be submissive at all, nor do I desire just random casual play, because it's not about the play for me.

In essence, I still haven't really found where exactly I fit in, because none of the boxes I've seen described, either in vanilla or BDSM communities are a fit for me.

So as far as "acceptance problems when discovering BDSM" goes, I really don't have any words of wisdom, considering that I haven't gotten past my problems with it, and at this point, don't feel I ever will.

Ishtar

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 7:49:11 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Except for those who really believe they arrived in this world from the womb already a Dom, Domme, or submissive we all trasitioned into this type of life that we call D/s. Can you recall how it was when your first made the trip and the problems you found and how you handled them?


Greetings,

my earliest exposure to BDSM was through erotic literature i mistakenly found at home. i immediately sensed it was different and became a very happy girl when school was out. It allowed additional time for exploration and self-discovery. The interest never waned as years passed, but it can't say there was an internal drive to yield. That wasn't my personal makeup nor my beginning in all of this. Admittedly i was very fortunate to have loving partners with a deep seeded appreciation for sexual adventure and kink. They allowed me to do what came to mind and enjoyed it, in fact we both did.

When i entered the community it was a very different time from the here and now. i was a young twenty something and most of the people around me were far older. i can't say the environment was incredibly diverse, but that was of no consequence in all truth. As for challenges, perhaps my age and life experience didn't view the situation as bothersome or difficult. i already had more responsibility than my peers and was quite the go-getter. i didn't believe in allowing walls to hinder what i wanted. So i jumped in and educated myself and began to attend events. Being the only 'whatever' was of no concern. What mattered most was the experience and i got a lot of it.

Submission wasn't on the menu. Being physically restrained made me ill and the idea of being controlled didn't go over well. Those things came much further down the road. i don't think i'd alter that in one bit. i believe i've benefited from the knowledge of self that was gained prior to the kneel rather than after. The supposed learning curve was blown to smithereens once i realized what "this" entailed and acknowledged the tools i had within.

If anything it was an immense personal challenge to excel. A sort of "game on" in some way. Being good was never enough. i realized i had the potential to do something far greater and it would provide the vehicle for this. Perhaps this is why i didn't encounter the acceptance issues noted. i always viewed my sexuality as an aspect of self and believed the most important party that must come to grips with it is me, myself, and i. Dancing to my own tune meant far more than being accepted ever would.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 7:54:12 AM   
windchymes


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IMO, rather than it being chemistry OR creativity, I think they go together. Perhaps one's creativity fueled the chemistry of the other, which fueled the chemistry of the other other.... Or, maybe because the chemistry was good, creative juices were produced, which produced other juices, and more chemistry....

I just don't think it's that black and white. It's almost a chicken/egg thing....is there chemistry because of the creativity, or is there creativity because there's chemistry???

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 7:55:07 AM   
lizi


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I found D/s after my marriage ended when I was 44 and I started to date again. After some time I met someone who was a Dom, I didn't know what that was at the time, and I felt like some puzzle pieces clicked into place for me. I've always been submissive in so many ways, I just didn't know there was a name for it and that there were people out there who would value that part of me. Plus I found that I really liked it in the bedroom...who knew!

I don't really have any problems accepting my submissiveness, however there are two things I've had to work on in that area. One is having the strength and the foresight to pursue what is best for ME in a relationship. This is from when I start looking and meeting people and then extends to when I'm in a relationship and making sure my needs are met. 

The other thing I have problems with is to literally speak up for myself. My first instinct is always to give someone else what they want and listen to them over myself. I perennially put myself last. These boards have helped me immensely over time with putting a voice to who I am and what I want. The word 'doormat' gets batted around in the realm of D/s and has the annoying quality of being a catchphrase. For me it's a real possibility though, I have to work at not being one- it doesn't come naturally. I'm getting better at it and I'm in a good place with the relationship I have to do that. For once I am achieving success with both of my weak spots 

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RE: acceptance problems when Entering D/s - 4/3/2011 8:03:30 AM   
submitting4U


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As a student of psychobabble who is sexually submissive I've learned through my experiences that the D/s positioning is more complex than we realize. There are folks who are unipolar D/ or /s. For many others the state of "I" (ego) is often split within us and therefor some of these split off parts are contrary to eachother. For instance, I am always a sexual submissive but as a social worker, I am quite dominant and assertive in my client's cause. I am not sadisitic in that latter role but clearly comfortable advocating for vulnerable populations. My sexual fantasies for enslavement and punishment were apparent since age 6. Integrating that into adult sexual practices took 40 years to fruition. To this day, it is hard for me to reconcile what dominant sadists can do to me. My "allowing" such sadism to be exacted upon me remains equally befuddling at times. By experiencing the dominas sadism, I learn who I am, albeit the opposite and how to integrate my sexual submissiveness in the "whole" of my life. Many submissives like myself who are internally conflicted have difficulty verbalizing or realizing "what we want or need" from dominants. The internal split creates confusion and hesitation. It's the nature of the beast ...

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