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RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:23:41 AM

merrymasochist

Posts: 156
Joined: 9/2/2004
Status: offline

Ahh! It's a punishment play scene not actual correcting-an-error punishment. That's a whole different kettle of fish. Most dominants I know would just add a gag and bell and not tolerate that behavior at all.

Sincerely,
merry

_____________________________

"What hath night to do with sleep?"
J. Milton

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 21

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:24:37 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333
Is Topping from the bottom a bad thing?

If one of you isn't ok with it, yes.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 22

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:27:43 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Well, most of the 'advice' is "Not so hard!" "Not there!" "Not all in one place!" and so on. He doesn't seem to take that well.

Oddly, if I'm saying "More!" and "Harder!" he doesn't seem to mind.

If this is what you're saying to him, then you're not receiving punishment, are you? You're involved in a session involving (apparently) impact play.

While I'm not a proponent of it, punishment usually involves consequences for a misdeed and do not require helpful advice such as "More!" or "Harder".

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 23

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:29:51 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Well, most of the 'advice' is "Not so hard!" "Not there!" "Not all in one place!" and so on. He doesn't seem to take that well.

Oddly, if I'm saying "More!" and "Harder!" he doesn't seem to mind.

Suffer always as he wishes you to suffer.

Topping from the bottom isn't a bad thing if you want to be the masked dominant figure in the relationship. ;) Who do you want in charge, after all? Do you trust him to dominate you, or do you think he isn't capable enough and needs your unsolicited help? (i say this in amusement and with a smile, which doesn't always come across in written words)

The quotes you posted above, personally, would get me more beatings. He wouldn't tolerate me telling him how to use me or punish me. Maybe it's not so much he wants you silent, but a cry, an apology, some remorse during punishment, and gratitude for the punishment in the first place would be more appropriate. Saying "more" and "harder" while he is enjoying you, communicates to him your enjoyment and lunging eagerly after more of what he wishes to dole. There is a bit of a difference between that and telling him to back off.

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 24

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:33:38 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse. I am a DOM I don't TAKE orders dear, I give them.

I hear you and agree, on the basic premise of your point, but you have couched it in a condescending way.

Numerous studies have shown people are less likely to hear things when they feel they are being talked down to.

_____________________________

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 25

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:39:14 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
I hear you and agree, on the basic premise of your point, but you have couched it in a condescending way.

Numerous studies have shown people are less likely to hear things when they feel they are being talked down to.

And how likely am I to 'hear' that?

If you have been here a while then you should have noticed I don't do such things by mistake, but by choise and mostly get the effect I was aiming for.... oh and that I couldn't care less how others take it!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 26

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:39:44 AM

lilbitnella

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

it depends...I'm not a Dom, but from what I've heard Doms repeat is that they don't like being 'told' or 'given' advice from their subs after limits are set.

_____________________________

"It doesn't matter who you love, or how you love, but that you love"
~Rod McKuen~

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 27

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:40:20 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

in the beginning i tried "helping" after two replies of "youre not supposed to tell me what to do" i have stopped.

i try to be as silent as possible. for two reasons, i believe it is the respectful thing to do, avoiding whining and what not, i think its an attractive trait. it also causes Him great pleasure when He DOES draw out noise. i used to cry out some in the beginning but after even the first punishment ever i found myself searching for a pillow to bury my wimpers into. i guess its kind of "take it like a slave" train of thought.

/shrug.

Also, i always thank Him after.

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 28

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:44:25 AM

lilbitnella

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Well, most of the 'advice' is "Not so hard!" "Not there!" "Not all in one place!" and so on. He doesn't seem to take that well.

Oddly, if I'm saying "More!" and "Harder!" he doesn't seem to mind.

Correct, but you are still 'telling' Him what to do or how to do it? If it were my situation, I would revisit limits/hard limits, etc...once more and open the lines of communication.

Best of luck to you *Smiles*

_____________________________

"It doesn't matter who you love, or how you love, but that you love"
~Rod McKuen~

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 29

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:56:09 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The quotes you posted above, personally, would get me more beatings. He wouldn't tolerate me telling him how to use me or punish me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

If I was being punished and uttered those things, I'd just get more of what I was indicating that I didn't like. I'm not meant to like being punished and I certainly wouldn't be *allowed* to glean any enjoyment from it, apart from knowing that I was paying for my misdemeanour.

As for bearing it *nobly* ...I'm afraid that after the first stroke I am usually crying and often before the first stroke has even landed....lol

It doesn't really matter, the punishment will take place whether I'm silent and stoical or wailing and sobbing loudly and nothing will deter him from administering it exactly how he decides.

Helpful advice doesn't go down well here at all......lol

Regards, agirl

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 30

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:56:35 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lilbitnella

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Well, most of the 'advice' is "Not so hard!" "Not there!" "Not all in one place!" and so on. He doesn't seem to take that well.

Oddly, if I'm saying "More!" and "Harder!" he doesn't seem to mind.

Correct, but you are still 'telling' Him what to do or how to do it? If it were my situation, I would revisit limits/hard limits, etc...once more and open the lines of communication.
Best of luck to you *Smiles*

You understand well the communication between a Master and his girl, but sometimes, especialy with an inexperienced Dom so feedback maybe benificial. The main objection I would have about the way those where presented is that she is barking orders at the Dom, not making polite requests or approprate (From my PoV) feedback.

"Not so hard!" is an order, "Please master, be more gentle" is an approprate request from a girl in discomfort.... if it is play rather than punishment then enjoyment on both sides is what is being aimed at so such feedback is quite in order.

The same applys with the way the rest was worded, as orders. As you suggest the best place to go into detail is during discussion about the sessions either before or after, but there are appropriate ways to give feedback during without topping from the bottom. That said, it should be her master teaching her the ways HE finds appropriate, what I've stated is simply what I find to be so.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to lilbitnella)

Post #: 31

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 7:58:44 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

I understand and agree with what I'm hearing here - I really do want to be a good sub, and I do often sink into that lovely state of freedom when I give up all control to him. But even so, it's sometimes so hard not to let my bossier side out.

(in reply to lilbitnella)

Post #: 32

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:01:44 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333
I understand and agree with what I'm hearing here - I really do want to be a good sub, and I do often sink into that lovely state of freedom when I give up all control to him. But even so, it's sometimes so hard not to let my bossier side out.

You seem to have spotted something about your behaviour in this thread, he is the best one to help you change that and bring that 'bossier' side more into line with what you want. Something for you to discuss with him

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 33

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:04:27 AM

TigerLily23

Posts: 53
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline

becca333,
Do you give advice, as in you are advising your Master on how to better dole out his punishment? Are you communicating to him in a way that he commands? Is your feedback solicited?
My Master loves to hear my moaning in agony, and on occassion, he enjoys verbal exchange during a session, but it isn't until our session is over, that he welcomes me to openly provide him with honest feedback, and it is only at his request that I do.

_____________________________

Lily

Nosce te ipsum...Know Thyself

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 34

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:08:32 AM

lilbitnella

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

i disagree with your comment:
That said, it should be her master teaching her the ways HE finds appropriate, what I've stated is simply what I find to be so.

it is the Dom's responsibility to care for his sub and make sure that her pleasure is His as well...you Dominate, not have domination over what the sub's levels of pain/enjoyment should be.
Respectfully,
Lilbit

_____________________________

"It doesn't matter who you love, or how you love, but that you love"
~Rod McKuen~

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 35

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:14:07 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

It's not just the verbal comments, he often dislikes me to make any sound at all, not even yelps - and until I hit subspace and go silent, I do tend to yelp quite a bit, I'm a total wimp. But you're all right, I should hold back the verbal side of things.

I still don't get why he wants silence, though. From the point of view of good workmanship, wouldn't you want the satisfaction of hearing that your efforts are having an effect? Even though I know he likes me to take it quietly, I feel - well, actually, I feel sort of rude - if I stay totally quiet throughout. I want him to hear and know that I'm focussed on what he's doing.

Reading this back, I'm starting to wonder if it's a far deeper issue - maybe I'm seeking some kind of reassurance from him, I want to have some kind of emotional contact during that part of the session.

(in reply to TigerLily23)

Post #: 36

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:15:07 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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You misread the comment dear, I outlined the appropriate form of communication from my perspective in order for the girl to inform the Dom when things are not going as intended..... He may well have diffrent ideas of what is an appropriate way for that information to be conveyed.

It wasn't about his deciding what her pain tollerance should be, but what is an appropriate way for her to let him know if they are being reached (Assuming he hasn't learned her well enough to be able to tell anyhow)

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to lilbitnella)

Post #: 37

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:17:31 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333
Reading this back, I'm starting to wonder if it's a far deeper issue - maybe I'm seeking some kind of reassurance from him, I want to have some kind of emotional contact during that part of the session.

My local partner is the same way- he loves banter and talking during scenes a lot. My other partners are completely different- talking drives them completely out of their headspace and drives them nuts in a not good way.

While I generally enjoy doing scenes that get us all into a happy headspace- sometimes when I am topping I will go where I want to go. And my local partner knows sometimes that means he has to shut the hell up and my other partners know sometimes that means they have to interact with me.

They don't have to "get" why I enjoy it, though it's nice if they do. They just have to go along for the ride.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 38

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:18:34 AM

shivvy

Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline

May i say a little about punishments and "suffering in silence"?

Firstly, like most involved in our lifestyle, i do believe that punishments are necessary to discourage wrongdoing. Punishment is an extensively used tool, and has been used world-wide for thousands of years, to ensure obedience in disciplined lifestyles, such as the military, schools and of course, D/s.

i like to think that my MASTER’s role is one of a teacher, trainer and guide. i think that the philosophy of the lifestyle is that i, in offering my submission to my MASTER, have accepted the responsibility of pleasing my MASTER in all things, including abiding by the rules HE has set for me. It follows that when those rules are broken, my MASTER has an obligation to punish me to ensure that i learn not to break that rule again. And through a system of punishments and discipline, i hope that i will grow in my ability to please HIM, which is the ultimate goal of my submission.

Of course not all punishments involve pain. Some may involve humiliation, or the restriction of privileges, or extra chores… but many do involve either pain or at least some form of discomfort.

With regards to spankings (or caning, whipping, etc…), i think that spanking has many forms, but in my opinion, is of two basic types: play spanking and punishment spanking. A play spanking can be used as a warm up for a long scene, where i will be subjected to a wide variety of stimulation, "torture", and/or sexual use. A play spanking is also where i am spanked for my MASTERs pleasure, or for HIS entertainment, or to heat up my flesh, to stimulate increased circulation and start the endorphin flow, and occasionally, for no particular reason whatsoever, other than for HIM to enjoy my submission.

A firm spanking will usually anchor me in my body at the start of a scene, driving out thoughts of my day-to-day existence and pulling me completely into the here and now. Although i call these "play spankings", there is nothing soft about them. As far as i am concerned, Corporal Punishment Hurts. It's supposed to hurt. It's not supposed to be fun for me.

Punishment spankings on the other hand, should really hurt, and punishment for hesitation, disobedience or deliberate failure (like i couldn’t be bothered to do something after i woz told to do it), is immediate, very intense, swiftly applied and brutally efficient.

During spankings, whether they be playful or for punishment, my MASTERs decision when to stop, always used to be resultant, not from my cries or tears, but from the size and colour of the marks HE had made. This method of judging the effectiveness of play, punishment, stimulation and/or torture, besides being equitable, also made it pointless for me to exaggerate my suffering in an effort to arouse HIS pity, and thus enabling HIM to resort to the same measures and ferocity at all times.

Without looking for comment, because i know now that most people think it’s dumb, but at the time i knew no different, but i neva used to have a safe word, so i always knew that my screams and moans were in vain anyway. Sometimes my MASTER used to like me making a noise, and sometimes i woz allowed a gag to stifle my cries, and eliminate all but my most violent moans, whilst allowing my tears to flow without restraint, so that i could concentrate on the sensations and feelings HE are applying to my body.

So for me, it woz always HIS decision if i woz to remain silent or not, and even though i really tried hard if i woz told to be quiet, sometimes you just can’t help yourself. As for giving my MASTER advice where i wanted HIM to hit me, or complain about where HE woz hitting me, i think would just have incured more of HIS displeasure.

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xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 39

RE: Suffering in silence - 5/8/2006 8:35:55 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shivvy
my MASTERs decision when to stop, always used to be resultant, not from my cries or tears, but from the size and colour of the marks HE had made.

this is how mine too, decides when to stop [or if i cant feel His 'rubs' inbetween sets, i am to speak up and play/punishment ends right away]

He has never brought me to tears [maybe i am a tough cookie] but i am constantly left with welts and once when i was very delinquint, several blackies.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 5/8/2006 8:36:29 AM >

(in reply to shivvy)

Post #: 40

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