RE: Being submissive makes you weak?

RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (Full Version)

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oceanwynds2 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 6:56:59 AM)
Hello Op Knowing there are times I alone have to take care of myself, has made a stronger female in me, who happens to be submissive. These past 5 years had to be handle with a lot of strength to maneuver through some horrible situations. If being a submissive makes one weak, i would not survived. For this submissive, weakness cannot play in my foundation, nor can i serve from a complete weak agenda. blessings oceanwynds

Muttling -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 7:00:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip i also feel that being submissive is not for the weak as it takes strength to be able to submit and serve. i am a combat nurse and i have to be able to keep all of my charges healthy and safe so i can be bold and strong ad lead but i choose to be submissive in my life as it is what i am. That makes two submissive veterans on this post. Tell us again how weak we are.

porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 7:47:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling That makes two submissive veterans on this post. Tell us again how weak we are. my submission takes me to a place that has shown me the beauty of weakness, humility, and lowliness. i really don't mind the word. Right now i'm in the relishing state. i've got vulnerability pretty well down, transparency is flowing, the doormat is there and it's welcoming for the most part, and need hasn't been sacrificed. i think i saw a bit of clinging in the fray. But in spite of these things it's all good. Embracing this part of myself has made me stronger in many respects. i can run rings around the tough minded independent chick i once was. And do it with effortless grace. Namaste, ~porcelaine

Starlynn -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 8:02:38 AM)
sparkie, As a Domme, I do not feel there is anything weak in being a submissive. It takes a lot of strength of character and of self to give control of your life over to another. But to flip the coin, it takes a lot of strength of character and of self not to take advantage of that control. Sometime the Dominant lets the power get to Their head. By no means are you weak for allowing/wanting Someone else to have control. Always remember that submission is a gift that is not just freely given. It is given when you feel that you have met that Person that suits what you are looking for. Keep Smiling, Starlynn

Asherscorp1 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 8:37:37 AM)
I just wanted to add that the judgemental feminist comment made on page 1 reminded me of a conversation with one of M's friends. She and her husband are not into and don't understand the lifestyle and I made some off the cuff remark about submitting which led to a more in depth discussion of the D/s dynamic in our life. I watched our friend's face fall the more I talked, she was sad and hurt and a somewhat aghast. She then admitted that she was disappointed because I come across as so strong, such a crusader for women and feminism and to find out I will be demeaned by choosing to sit at a man's feet and serve him ... ruined everything for her. I had to laugh at that interpretation but it also made me sad. I think it's very difficult for people outside of this lifestyle to see the true respect and care that a submissive receives even if she is kneeling at a man's feet obediently.

NorthernGent -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 8:58:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie EDIT: On another note..those that are dominant, do you view submissives as being weak? Not at all. We're all weak to a certain extent (in terms of the usual definition of weak). And, plus, every characteristic can be viewed as a strength or a weakness depending upon point of view. Having said that, I don't judge any woman in terms of strong or weak. Life's too arbitrary to pin things dow to a mere term.

DesFIP -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 8:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 A submissive female......, wellll...., the right submissive female is the only person who can accommodate and complement my male dominant needs. For her to be "weak" (and therefore flawed etc) automatically implies I must be, too. Weaker, in fact, because I could never do for any woman that which I require my submissive to do to satisfy all my needs. I'd venture those most likely to view a fem/sub as weak are vanilla females, esp feminist types - at the risk of starting a shit-fight of "fat thread" proportions, maybe.... lol Focus. Or not. I identify as weak. He's stronger than I am physically and emotionally. I don't have energy to fight, I just give up. He'll take on tough fights rather than give in. Oh yeah, and I'm a feminist. I'm proud that we have title 9 in schools, that girls sports are funded, not just boys. Back before this, my daughter wouldn't be traveling to compete in a national NCAA championship because the NCAA used to be only male sports. I'm happy that she'll never be told she has to accept sexual harassment as the price of keeping an underpaid job. My weakness however has nothing to do with my submissiveness. It also has no effect either way on me being intelligent, or dark haired, or anything else. It is coincidental and not causal.

txurinal -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 9:34:27 AM)
To paraphrase Bette Davis, "slavery ain't for sissies"

Muttling -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 9:44:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling That makes two submissive veterans on this post. Tell us again how weak we are. my submission takes me to a place that has shown me the beauty of weakness, humility, and lowliness. i really don't mind the word. Right now i'm in the relishing state. i've got vulnerability pretty well down, transparency is flowing, the doormat is there and it's welcoming for the most part, and need hasn't been sacrificed. i think i saw a bit of clinging in the fray. But in spite of these things it's all good. Embracing this part of myself has made me stronger in many respects. i can run rings around the tough minded independent chick i once was. And do it with effortless grace. Namaste, ~porcelaine That's the beauty of submission porcelaine. You aren't a weak person, you choose to give up your "strength" to be weak as part of your submission and doing so does something very special for you. In your own words, it even makes you stronger in other areas. This is the essence of what I really like about submission.

leadership527 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 9:56:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie I've always preferred to follow and be the support in the background rather then be the leader. But sometimes I feel that I am weak because I am submissive and not one to jump up when someone needs to take control of a situation. You sound a lot like Carol.... a generally or socially submissive person... otherwise known as "doormat". I personally do not see this personality type as weak. When I look at Carol I see a person who brings a lot of strength and determination to the things she does. She just has a different priority set than I do. She's more interested in "making people happy" than "succeeding" for instance. I would strongly urge you to give some very careful thought to what you mean by "strength". That will answer this question for you. Here's my definition of strength: the ability to engage in legitimate suffering That is to say, "to do the hard shit when hard shit needs to happen". That definition says nothing about what role one chooses to occupy in life. It only refers to who's gonna be there when the going gets rough. I strongly urge you to give thought to this. Your personality type is one of the less accepted ones in BDSM. People will try to convince you that actually being submissive in a submissive role is bad.. that you are in peril... that you trust to much... that you are a doormat. They will do so even after you're happily married/collared for 15 years.

porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 10:21:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling That's the beauty of submission porcelaine. You aren't a weak person, you choose to give up your "strength" to be weak as part of your submission and doing so does something very special for you. In your own words, it even makes you stronger in other areas. Greetings Muttling, No, that isn't it in all truth. i'm merely at home with my weakness and i don't camouflage it by constant promotion of strength, independence, and all the other slogans that some bandy about. It's perfectly okay to be weak and less than in my opinion. That doesn't make me a failure or incapable of doing the impossible. But it does acknowledge my self awareness and the understanding that i won't be the best in all instances, but i'll always give my best either way. Plus it softens me and i like that. All the rah rah rah leaves some very rough edges that can be brittle to the touch. Namaste, ~porcelaine

littlewonder -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 10:46:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling That's the beauty of submission porcelaine. You aren't a weak person, you choose to give up your "strength" to be weak as part of your submission and doing so does something very special for you. In your own words, it even makes you stronger in other areas. Greetings Muttling, No, that isn't it in all truth. i'm merely at home with my weakness and i don't camouflage it by constant promotion of strength, independence, and all the other slogans that some bandy about. It's perfectly okay to be weak and less than in my opinion. That doesn't make me a failure or incapable of doing the impossible. But it does acknowledge my self awareness and the understanding that i won't be the best in all instances, but i'll always give my best either way. Plus it softens me and i like that. All the rah rah rah leaves some very rough edges that can be brittle to the touch. Namaste, ~porcelaine I've been thinking about this post all day and how I've said before in past posts that I have no problem with admitting my weakness and I'm comfortable with it in the same way that porcelaine has mentioned. I think I'll let her post do the explaining for me since she said it better lol.

agirl -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 11:32:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling That's the beauty of submission porcelaine. You aren't a weak person, you choose to give up your "strength" to be weak as part of your submission and doing so does something very special for you. In your own words, it even makes you stronger in other areas. Greetings Muttling, No, that isn't it in all truth. i'm merely at home with my weakness and i don't camouflage it by constant promotion of strength, independence, and all the other slogans that some bandy about. It's perfectly okay to be weak and less than in my opinion. That doesn't make me a failure or incapable of doing the impossible. But it does acknowledge my self awareness and the understanding that i won't be the best in all instances, but i'll always give my best either way. Plus it softens me and i like that. All the rah rah rah leaves some very rough edges that can be brittle to the touch. Namaste, ~porcelaine Ditto, in part. The people I get along with well are the ones that are very comfy in their own skin, that know the bits of life they aren't great at and know the bits that they can do rather well.....but the part that makes them so easy to get along with is the fact that it's of no great importance either way; they are just content in knowing and quite liking themselves regardless of how anyone else perceives them. Basically they just accept their strengths and weaknesses as part of being a person. It didn't take any great strength for me to be owned. It was really rather easy to tell the truth. It was what I wanted, it was with someone who I held huge respect for, trusted implicitely over years and for whom I was enormously fond. Many people seem to consider that it takes strength to choose what they actively wish for and have chosen. I've never quite understood that, really. agirl

porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 11:53:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl *Basically they just accept their strengths and weaknesses* as part of being a person.** Precisely. quote: It didn't take any great strength for me to be owned. It was really rather easy to tell the truth. It was what I wanted, it was with someone who I held huge respect for, trusted implicitely over years and for whom I was enormously fond. Many people seem to consider that it takes strength to choose what they actively wish for and have chosen. I've never quite understood that, really. i loved this post. :) i recall the first time i said slavery was easy. i got some really odd responses. i suppose this needs to be an obstacle course for some, but i don't feel the same. Much like you've stated, a lot of it comes from personal motivation and a big dollop of self knowledge. Rather than complicating the process, i elected to simplify. i think that alleviates a lot of the q&a, what if's, and a whole bunch in between. It's really nice to hear someone say this. i don't encounter it often. i admire your honesty. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

Focus50 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 3:28:43 PM)
I don't mind the ideals of sincere feminists, esp in workplace equality. And probably not in whatever this "title 9" and "NCAA" bizzo is.... Sport is a huge part of Aussie culture and girls are encouraged to participate as much as the boys. But as with most sports at elite levels, the big bucks are usually generated in the men's games as (presumably) the usually faster/stronger execution equates to a higher entertainment value to broadcasters. Feminist nazis of recent times, who usually don't include men in their interpretation of sexual equality, is something I can get fired up about. You know, how it's now ok to tailor a gym specifically for female clientele but an otherwise predominantly men's gym is forbidden by law to exclude women, kinda thing.... But I digress.... quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Or not. I identify as weak. He's stronger than I am physically and emotionally. I don't have energy to fight, I just give up. He'll take on tough fights rather than give in. For the purpose of this topic, my interpretation of "weak" has nothing to do with physical strength. But I s'pose that aspect might make the topic more interesting from a male/sub - fem/dom aspect, given that probably 95% of all men are physically stronger than 95% of all women. That said, I can't wait for the semantics of theoretical statistics to rear its ugly head.... lol Stronger emotionally...? Yeah, that's the harder one to pin down. We all handle stressful situations in different ways and we males who tend to bottle up our emotions rather than freely express them have had our critics in the past decade or two. The alternative (and creepy) "sensitive new age guy" as presented in the 1990's still sends shivers down my spine. My always moderate self thinks somewhere in between is mentally and emotionally healthiest, though I'm still mostly the former.... The act of a submissive deferring to the Dominant's will implies personal and social weakness. But implies it to who? And I think therein lies the the real answer. I'm not actively into humiliating my girl but forcing her bound self to her knees for a good throat-fucking is something I enjoy in a dominant sense far more than freely accepting oral pleasure via her own methods and technique etc. However, some vanilla type voyeur looking through the mirror might see the latter as a basic blowjob and the former as an abusive act of humiliation. And so it is with whoever interprets a submissive as weak. That the real problem is with the beholder doing the interpretting and why I'm not one to educate the ignorant in things they just don't wanna understand beyond a topic of nosey gossip. I also think this relates to the OP's other active thread about keeping friends and family in the D/s loop - that the more information you give those who don't need to know, the more you leave yourself open to being judged negatively in wiitwd. Look at me; I'm posting again.... lol Focus.

porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/10/2011 4:02:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 The alternative (and creepy) "sensitive new age guy" as presented in the 1990's still sends shivers down my spine. i've got to admit i'd take him if he showed up in a metrosexual form. Seriously, i can work with that. Shoo him this way. [:D] Namaste, ~porcelaine

sunshinemiss -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 12:55:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1 ... the true respect and care that a submissive receives even if she is kneeling at a man's feet obediently. This is not always the case - in fact it is often enough not the case. Let's not make it all balloons and flowers. Your reality isn't everybody's. Just a thought. ETA: We have SO many threads that say the opposite, and let's face it - a lot of people on these forums have been in some pretty icky situations before finding something good. Now... I'm a tell you. I'm really good friends with a couple that has what looks to me like a dang close to perfect relationship. He totally respects her, and she adores him. (He adores her and she respects him, too come to think of it). Those kinds of relationships, though, are rare. And frankly, I don't like when we pretend everything is all flowers and balloons for new people. You gotta kiss a lot of frogs (usually) before you find a prince. That's a truism - at least if I'm reading the boards right. best, sunshine

Focus50 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 2:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 The alternative (and creepy) "sensitive new age guy" as presented in the 1990's still sends shivers down my spine. i've got to admit i'd take him if he showed up in a metrosexual form. Seriously, i can work with that. Shoo him this way. [:D] Namaste, I love your posts but I always seem to be reaching for a dictionary with them.... lol Turned out I had to Google "metrosexual" and imagine my surprise when Wikipedia says the word was first coined in 1994 - the decade of preaching and embracing emasculation (apparently). Still is from the common underlying themes of too many American movies and tv shows.... I guess we'll never get enough of 100 pound stilettoed babes kicking the absolute tripe out of we 200 pound knuckle draggers. You can seriously work with a metrosexual snag (sensitive new age guy)? Between that and your vocabulary, I guess you and I ain't ever getting together...! lpl Focus.

porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 2:23:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I love your posts but I always seem to be reaching for a dictionary with them.... lol Thank you for the compliment. grins quote: You can seriously work with a metrosexual snag (sensitive new age guy)? Between that and your vocabulary, I guess you and I ain't ever getting together...! lpl i don't abhor masculinity. i simply have no attraction to macho. my eye will always go towards lean and polished before i'd ever notice the buff alternative. As for mister sensitivity, i think there are certain varieties that wouldn't mesh with me. But in my present state it would be counterproductive to have someone lacking warmth or empathy. i need a benevolent Keeper that very sadistic. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

NuevaVida -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 2:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: agirl *Basically they just accept their strengths and weaknesses* as part of being a person.** Precisely. quote: It didn't take any great strength for me to be owned. It was really rather easy to tell the truth. It was what I wanted, it was with someone who I held huge respect for, trusted implicitely over years and for whom I was enormously fond. Many people seem to consider that it takes strength to choose what they actively wish for and have chosen. I've never quite understood that, really. i loved this post. :) i recall the first time i said slavery was easy. i got some really odd responses. i suppose this needs to be an obstacle course for some, but i don't feel the same. Much like you've stated, a lot of it comes from personal motivation and a big dollop of self knowledge. Rather than complicating the process, i elected to simplify. i think that alleviates a lot of the q&a, what if's, and a whole bunch in between. It's really nice to hear someone say this. i don't encounter it often. i admire your honesty. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine Springboarding off this - - it was actually quite a process for me to be able to accept my weaknesses and be OK with them. It's been drilled into my head for so many years that I must be strong in all things and in all ways, and it's repeated in thread after thread about all this great strength it takes to submit, and how weakness is frowned upon, etc. But I find, now, I'm perfectly OK with my strengths and my weaknesses, as they make up who I am. And it's rather refreshing being with someone who thinks I'm pretty cool - even with those weaknesses. So hey, no complaints here. When I tell people my submission to my owner is not difficult and actually comes relatively easily to me, I'm often met with somewhat of a negative response, or some level of skepticism. But I'm OK with that. To the OP - Count me in with the others who say strengths and weaknesses are individual traits and not directly tied to submission, dominance, switchiness, or anything in between.

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