RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 2:53:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1
... the true respect and care that a submissive receives even if she is kneeling at a man's feet obediently.


This is not always the case - in fact it is often enough not the case. Let's not make it all balloons and flowers. Your reality isn't everybody's.


Absolutely.  That certainly wasn't my reality in the past.  Respect and care did not enter into it at all. 

It's my experience now, however, and I'll tell ya, I count my blessings.




Focus50 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 2:54:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

But in my present state it would be counterproductive to have someone lacking warmth or empathy. i need a benevolent Keeper that very sadistic. [;)]

Namaste,


Looky here - guess there's hope for me/us, yet.

Bet the geography sucks but.... Don't recall passing through "the dollhouse" in my travels about Oz.

Things I won't be doing:
1. Getting in touch with my "feminine side".
2. Or my "submissive side" - urban (and 90's) myths.
3. Generally getting all weepy when the going gets tough.

Metrosexual is what women do (see #1.) And I'm cool with that - I like my girl well groomed and I like and appreciate women for their differences to us beyond physiology; THAT'S what defines them as feminine (to me, anyway). Now guess why I abhor tatts.... lol

Focus.




PetiteOralSub -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 3:27:19 PM)

While I have heard of cases like porcelaine described, slaves who at the end of a relationship did not know how to cope with certain life situations that had always been handled for them, that's not weakness, that's inexperience, and simple ignorance that can be overcome with a little self-education; if you have the strength to then go out and cope for yourself. Happens all the time in the vanilla world as well.

Again, it's all relative to the submissive and Master and thier relationship in question.
my experience so far in the lifestyle is that it continues to make me evolve, get "better" (provide your own definition) ,
get "stronger" every day.

I am not weak, the Masters I seek out would not have me if I were.




Phoenixpower -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 3:32:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

IJMHO, but I think it takes a lot of strength to give completely of oneself, to choose to live in a way that society questions, to face your fears and walk through them, and, most of all, to have the discipline to live a life of servitude.
Now that's just me. I know more than a few women who I view as very strong who say they aren't, that they are just living in the way that comes most naturally to them and that takes no strength at all. But most have had to go through quite a few internal (and often external) conflicts in order to reach that place of acceptance. To me, the willingness and desire to continue pushing through such adversity and keep seeking and growing is the sign of a strong person.
Plus, shit, grins, any chick who can put up with me better be tough as nails.



I have to agree with Kana on that...though, except the last sentence as I stay out of that one [:D]




kalikshama -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 3:37:36 PM)

quote:

That makes two submissive veterans on this post.   Tell us again how weak we are.


Three vets!




kalikshama -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 3:41:39 PM)

Based on how they handle challenging situations,
I see this as a strong /s: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3626594/mpage_1/tm.htm
and this as a weak /s: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3629693/mpage_1/tm.htm

IMO, one takes personal responsibility and one does not.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 3:57:20 PM)

Metrosexual... Italian men in Armani. Yum. I don't think anyone would call them submissive or feminine. But they sure do look / smell good. And they know how to treat a lady... and a naughty girl... mmm hmmm...

Ummm Porcelaine!!! Road trip!!!! What say you? [sm=friends.gif]




porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 4:31:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Looky here - guess there's hope for me/us, yet.

Bet the geography sucks but.... Don't recall passing through "the dollhouse" in my travels about Oz
.


The dollhouse is on American shores. But i've had a Brizzy delicacy in the past. :)

quote:

Things I won't be doing:
1. Getting in touch with my "feminine side".
2. Or my "submissive side" - urban (and 90's) myths.
3. Generally getting all weepy when the going gets tough.


i have no desire for Oprah moments nor do i find most men are interested in providing them. Nonetheless, an ability to emote is essential. It does not imply we're reenacting the Lifetime Network. i have my limits.

i like men that look good, smell great, and keep themselves well attired. Add nice hands and a manscape and we can talk. i have no interest in Smokey the Bear. [;)]

quote:

Metrosexual is what women do (see #1.) Now guess why I abhor tatts.... lol


i cannot conceive of a man behaving as i do and i'm very feminine. However, i do appreciate a man that doesn't believe it's an assault on his masculinity to take pride in his appearance. On the contrary, i think it's hella hot. As for ink, well, to each his own. i don't have any. i can tolerate one if i get the other stuff. But anything more would be overkill for me.



quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Metrosexual... Italian men in Armani. Yum.

Ummm Porcelaine!!! Road trip!!!! What say you?  [sm=friends.gif]


*ears perking*

You said the magic word! i think i'd have a cardiac arrest but i'd die with a gigantic smile!! [sm=hearts.gif]

Namaste,

~porcelaine




littlewonder -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/11/2011 4:48:14 PM)

swoons as this brings back images of Master in a tailored suit






MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 12:47:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

Being submissive makes you weak?



For some, this is better stated as, "Being submissive allows you to be weak". 

To be the proverbial "doormat" is an honor, not an insult.  YMMV [:)]




NorthernGent -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 12:55:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Metrosexual... Italian men in Armani. Yum. I don't think anyone would call them submissive or feminine. But they sure do look / smell good. And they know how to treat a lady... and a naughty girl... mmm hmmm...

Ummm Porcelaine!!! Road trip!!!! What say you? [sm=friends.gif]



Not quite sure how acknowledging weakness (in terms of what it usually means) has meandered down the river to metrosexuality. Admittedly, I haven't followed all of the posts, and I'm not wholly confident that I know what metrosexuality is; nevertheless, acknowledging weakness is a philosophical position as opposed to a statement of personal dress.

I don't mind using myself as some sort of example here:

I'm the type of person who buys 12 pairs of new socks every month and throws away the previous lot, and another bottle of aftershave, although you'd never catch me wearing jewelry other than a watch. Nor would you catch me using face cream of any description. You wouldnt catch me in a suit costing less than £300, and you'd never catch me socialising with women other than my partner - just not something I do - my mates are men and I like it that way. I'm a big fan of keeping my shoes and finger nails spotless.

Some will see contradictions in there, I'm sure, and I'd be the first to say I'm not exactly foraging in the undergrowth and living off the land like a 'real man'. None of this, however, has anything to do with appeciating strength or weakness - it's simply personal taste.

And one man's strength is certainly another man's weakness. I could say that I value spontaneity, which I do; some would say that's great let's adapt to the situation, while others could quite easily argue that it's a weakness potentially leading to a situation where your partner can never be sure where she stands. I would dispute that, but I'd grasp the meaning and appreciate its subjective nature.

Ultimately, though, the main argument is this: it has been understood for centuries that human beings are activated by fear and pride (in part), all human beings, and this can only possibly lead to irrational behaviour and weakness (in terms of what is usually meant).




Focus50 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 2:28:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Not quite sure how acknowledging weakness (in terms of what it usually means) has meandered down the river to metrosexuality. Admittedly, I haven't followed all of the posts, and I'm not wholly confident that I know what metrosexuality is; nevertheless, acknowledging weakness is a philosophical position as opposed to a statement of personal dress.


Crikey NG, this'd be one of those moments where people respected your intelligence more if you hadn't said anything...! lol

At the very least with your 7,000+ posts, you have got to have seen a topic meander as it goes a little stale, esp when the OP fails to manage what they began....



quote:

I don't mind using myself as some sort of example here:

I'm the type of person who buys 12 pairs of new socks every month and throws away the previous lot, and another bottle of aftershave, although you'd never catch me wearing jewelry other than a watch. Nor would you catch me using face cream of any description. You wouldnt catch me in a suit costing less than £300, and you'd never catch me socialising with women other than my partner - just not something I do - my mates are men and I like it that way. I'm a big fan of keeping my shoes and finger nails spotless.

Some will see contradictions in there, I'm sure, and I'd be the first to say I'm not exactly foraging in the undergrowth and living off the land like a 'real man'. None of this, however, has anything to do with appeciating strength or weakness - it's simply personal taste.

And one man's strength is certainly another man's weakness. I could say that I value spontaneity, which I do; some would say that's great let's adapt to the situation, while others could quite easily argue that it's a weakness potentially leading to a situation where your partner can never be sure where she stands. I would dispute that, but I'd grasp the meaning and appreciate its subjective nature.

Ultimately, though, the main argument is this: it has been understood for centuries that human beings are activated by fear and pride (in part), all human beings, and this can only possibly lead to irrational behaviour and weakness (in terms of what is usually meant).

And here's where you're well ahead of me ('cept for that disturbing bizzo with the socks etc)....

Ahead as in the greater likelihood of littlewonder, porcelaine and sunshinemiss swooning after you well before ever noticing me.... lol

Never owned a suit, never even worn one! As a tradesman who works with his hands (I know, I know - I struggle with the shame every single day), I don't need a suit for work and I've always embraced the laid-back Aussie lifestyle re casual dress. Which apparently means the only alternative is to continue gathering rocks and leaves, as "real men" do.

Focus.




NorthernGent -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 2:56:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


At the very least with your 7,000+ posts, you have got to have seen a topic meander as it goes a little stale, esp when the OP fails to manage what they began...



Ha, yeah, I've seen a few unravel, Focus, but this one is like a cat playing with a ball of wool.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Never owned a suit, never even worn one! As a tradesman who works with his hands (I know, I know - I struggle with the shame every single day), I don't need a suit for work and I've always embraced the laid-back Aussie lifestyle re casual dress. Which apparently means the only alternative is to continue gathering rocks and leaves, as "real men" do.

Focus.



Fair doos, Focus, circumstances etc. Would say, though, most of my family were miners, but they were smart (in English terms meaning well groomed) men outside of work.

I would put some of it down to religion and the Methodism that took root in this part of the world.

I was about to start up the utter absence of a link between grooming preferences and weakness, or claim to the judge and jury on weaknesses, but probably futile and this thread is crying out for a spot of direction from the top rather than more of the same!

More importantly, in terms of who's leading the way with the ladies on this thread, you're in Oz, I'm in England and I'd imagine these ladies are in the United States, so things ain't gonna take a turn for the better round here - metrosexual or otherwise.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 3:39:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Ahead as in the greater likelihood of littlewonder, porcelaine and sunshinemiss swooning after you well before ever noticing me.... lol




Now let's not carried away, Focus. I humbly believe that as a single woman, it is my duty to appreciate men in all their gloriousness. I love me a big ole lumberjack in flannel as much as I love the Armani-clad Italian.

I am not one to shirk my duty.




Aynne88 -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 5:32:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Ahead as in the greater likelihood of littlewonder, porcelaine and sunshinemiss swooning after you well before ever noticing me.... lol




Now let's not carried away, Focus. I humbly believe that as a single woman, it is my duty to appreciate men in all their gloriousness. I love me a big ole lumberjack in flannel as much as I love the Armani-clad Italian.

I am not one to shirk my duty.


Moi aussi! I love me a man in the GQ ensemble as well as the man with the jeans and work boots, as long as he is manly. I don't find a suit to be metrosexual actually, I find men in that attire to be actually quite manly.  My most manly men look like they just stepped out of a Godfather movie, cufflinks and all. *swoon* Give me an Italian ganster all day long. Nothing metrosexual about that. Yum.




gothikbutterfly -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 5:37:32 PM)

IMHO, it takes great strength to go against your natural instinct and submit to another no matter what the circumstances. So no, being submissive doesn't make one weak. It only makes you stronger.

(maybe i am way off on this, but thats how i feel. please tell me if you think i'm off base).




Muttling -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 6:54:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA


For some, this is better stated as, "Being submissive allows you to be weak". 




From previous posts in this thread, some of us differ on exactly what this entails.     However, I think many (if not ALL) of the subs on this thread would agree with your post.

There is beauty in embracing your weaknesses.  That is the essence of submission.




porcelaine -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/12/2011 8:53:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Ahead as in the greater likelihood of littlewonder, porcelaine and sunshinemiss swooning after you well before ever noticing me.... lol


Sorry, i rarely swoon unless that person is pretty darned gaga. Seriously. And in all my time on the board, i've only encountered two men that i'd consider metrosexual and neither identify themselves in that manner. [;)]

quote:

Never owned a suit, never even worn one! As a tradesman who works with his hands (I know, I know - I struggle with the shame every single day), I don't need a suit for work and I've always embraced the laid-back Aussie lifestyle re casual dress. Which apparently means the only alternative is to continue gathering rocks and leaves, as "real men" do.


i don't believe ones manliness is solely determined by their attire. There are many women that find the casual look to be highly appealing and those that gravitate to men donning a suit and tie. It isn't the latter that i prefer, but the entire package instead. He's got to fit. :)

Namaste,

~porcelaine




ranja -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/13/2011 1:54:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I love your posts but I always seem to be reaching for a dictionary with them.... lol



Ha... i knew i am not the only one!!!

about weakness, i love to be it in my knees
-i prefer it when He is strong when i am weak otherwise it becomes a mess
-i don't like it so much that He has weaknesses too, but i just about manage to deal with it... mostly




sunshinemiss -> RE: Being submissive makes you weak? (4/13/2011 3:02:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gothikbutterfly

IMHO, it takes great strength to go against your natural instinct and submit to another no matter what the circumstances. So no, being submissive doesn't make one weak. It only makes you stronger.

(maybe i am way off on this, but thats how i feel. please tell me if you think i'm off base).


I think you are off base.

Honestly, I do. Here's the part that gives me pause: "to go against your natural instinct." Why would someone be what / who they are not. That will cause some serious mental anguish down the road.

best,
sunshine




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