RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa)

RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (Full Version)

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hlen5 -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 12:54:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 I'm quite capable of discussing the issues Edwynn. What do you think I'm not getting? I am in status of pardon if I accuse you falsely. In any case not meant as accusation of incapacity on your part. There is the possibility that the accusation of xenophobia from yourself to another person might have rankled me just a bit. In any case, what was being conveyed from such person is that when you go from home country to a far away country, the sensibilities of said far away country are taken into consideration, at least by those with an inherent consideration for others to begin with. My opinion on the topic can be found on posts 2, 9, 23, 27 and 91. In them you will see we are not in total disagreement. I think 91 is the most important of them. I wasn't making an accusation, I was making a statement.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 1:14:07 AM)
I'll just leave it to you how to proceed henceforth. I won't intercede further.

hlen5 -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 1:19:06 AM)
I thought we could continue the actual issue. Very well...

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 1:34:29 AM)
Just don't call somebody else xenophobic. I was doing OK before that.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 2:03:57 AM)
Although, come to look at it, NorthernGent has just explained to us that England has always been an forever will be god's gift to the world, most especially continental Europe. I'm not sure how either of us could proceed from there.

geilematz -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 2:34:03 AM)
quote: women and men are expected not to leave their underwear together on the same line for drying outside in some US states Are You serious??????? I confess it's from hearsay - a friend showed me some internet pages labelled sex laws in the US or like that, and we had some good time since I cant see a risk in the near future of myself violating those laws I didn't investigate further into the matter for the moment - just found it illustrating for the issue m.

NorthernGent -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 4:46:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Although, come to look at it, NorthernGent has just explained to us that England has always been an forever will be god's gift to the world, most especially continental Europe. I'm not sure how either of us could proceed from there. Edwynn, so, by your own admission your discussion capabilities are limited, i.e. you have no definite idea of how to proceed when pressed. I'll help you out, and the best of it is I expect nothing in return, mate. Hlen is trying to have a discussion with you. She is putting some points forward; she even reminded you of these previous points by means of directing you to four of her posts. My suggestion is to respond to her points with your opinions. It really is that simple. You could even strive for harmony by keeping on track with that which is being discussed; you may feel a sense of achievement and reward through civil human interaction.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 5:23:20 AM)
It's all good mate.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 5:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geilematz quote: women and men are expected not to leave their underwear together on the same line for drying outside in some US states Are You serious??????? quote: I confess it's from hearsay - a friend showed me some internet pages labelled sex laws in the US or like that, and we had some good time since I cant see a risk in the near future of myself violating those laws I didn't investigate further into the matter for the moment - just found it illustrating for the issue m. It's all true, geile! Hlen just tossed my boxer shorts into the yard and soaked them in lighter fluid and threw a lit match to them, just so she could get her wash in first! Oh, by the way, I heard some hearsay that Niedersachsen ("Lower Saxony," for my other friends here) has a law that requires that a man beat his wife everyday, but since I can't see a risk in the near future of moving there anytime soon, I didn't investigate further into the matter for the moment - but I thought it might be illustrating for the issue.

NorthernGent -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 5:48:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn It's all good mate. See, we're mates again, Edwynn. A spot of compassion and understanding between different minds goes a long way. All's well that ends well! So back to the issue at hand, which is a good discussion point - the state's intrusion into individual concerns. I've said my piece, so I'll leave it to yourselves to go at. All the best.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 5:56:25 AM)
One point, which several others in fact made better than I did, was having concern for the sensibilities of those where one relocates him/herself to. Another point, which I might have been the only one to make a fuss about, was having somebody else's religion shoved in my face at the grocery store.

NorthernGent -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:02:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Another point, which I might have been the only one to make a fuss about, was having somebody else's religion shoved in my face at the grocery store. I did read this, and was left scratching my head while wondering how on earth someone wearing religious attire is akin to forcing it down your neck. Different minds eh. When I see a muslim woman decked head to toe I make a point of not looking in her direction because I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable by staring. Minorities are in an awkward position in that it can feel like they're 'the others', particularly when there is discussion in the media and government surrounding whether or not their practices are valid. To me, the most important thing is to make people feel at home rather than question their beliefs.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:05:05 AM)
"My god is the only true god" I can understand others' believing, but I myself have no need to have that blared in my face in public.

NorthernGent -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:10:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn "My god is the only true god" I can understand others' believing, but I myself have no need to have that blared in my face in public. Well, yeah, it's an expression of an opinion. Does she not have the opportunity to express her opinions in a non-violent manner, in the same way we all have this opportunity? Edited to add: off to the pub to watch the cup semi-final, so will have to come back to this discussion later.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:17:02 AM)
~

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:31:27 AM)
"Well, yeah, it's an expression of an opinion." That would be news to them, I can assure you. Most people, whoever their god, consider their deity more than 'an expression of opinion.' The area I live in is more diverse than what many others are used to. The county is 54% black, and there are large sections of Latinos and Orientals, and we have all looked at each other for many years with out anybody knowing what the others' religion is. And even when working alongside, most of us do not know the others' religion, but I and other people are not bothered too much if another person wants to let us in on their belief, as long as they are not trying to sell us on it. How 'bout if we look at it this way; some of us use pop-up blockers. And I don't know why I am the one having to explain myself, rather than the ones infesting my life with the pop-ups. How hard is that?

Phoenixpower -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:56:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent we may be European to an extent, but the fact that we're an island has had a massive influence on the way we think. Were we joined to the continent we would think like them; we have not lived for centuries with the threat of armies marching over our borders. interestingly someone else said this to me recently and explained to me how she meant it, following which I could agree with her (as simply the way how she expressed it I felt to be very realistic to my experience) In regards to the rest, thats so true, though you might mean it in a different context as I do (not sure but could be the case). The reasons we visited the mosque in 2002 was due to the attack in america just before then, the fact that we were doing our qualification to work with kids in children's homes and it was considered to be important to learn more about their belief due to the fact that after all we were part of their upbringing and also some of us worked with children from muslim parents and on top of it the american army was just around the corner. During our visit in the mosque we were also able to have a good debate with the Imam to have our questions we had, answered. It was not compulsory to take part on that visit and I do remember (though I don't remember why) that our african-american class mate did not feel comfortable to take part. But it was interesting and I am glad that the school did arrange for us that visit. Also as a kid it felt very odd indeed when aged 12/13 I passed the canadian area we had at that time in my town (they sadly left as the canadian army was not considered as being needed anymore once the german wall came down) and at that time they heavily guarded their buildings... edited to add: not to mention the fact that whilst it is quite a long time ago now, it is not that long ago actually on the other side, that people were being shot in Germany when they tried to leave east Germany which also, as you rightly say, does influence opinions.

thishereboi -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 6:58:11 AM)
quote: I did read this, and was left scratching my head while wondering how on earth someone wearing religious attire is akin to forcing it down your neck. Not sure, but I think it is along the lines of the people who say gays are shoving homosexuality down their throats because two guys just walked down the street holding hands.

Edwynn -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 8:04:02 AM)
Not the same thing at all. There is a difference between public attire and public behavior, for the discerning observer. I'm not crazy about having to witness two people smooching grotesquely in public, no matter the genders. And at the same time, I don't feel that any of them were trying to shove their homosexuality or heterosexuality down my throat. I don't think you are accusing me of such presumption, but I hear you also on some people's fear of homo-phenomena in general. Every time (almost) I go to the grocery store I go down an isle with some gay/lesbian couple there. They are just shopping, not trying to tell all the world about their different preference. The hardware store I visit most often is staffed largely by lesbians. They are more interested in selling me a can of paint or a box of outdoor screws (and I thank them for their expertise) than they are in trying to sell me their personal choice for a life mate. Or their god. Do they even have a god? I'm sure that some do and some don't, but they keep me ignorant to that issue in any case.

hlen5 -> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) (4/16/2011 9:31:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn It's all true, geile!.......... Hlen just tossed my boxer shorts into the yard and soaked them in lighter fluid and threw a lit match to them, just so she could get her wash in first! My laundry is dry now, the clothesline is all yours!![;)] Minor hijack - friends of my parents were visiting and did some laundry. The wife "hid" the underwear between the clothespins of other clothes so the family undies couldn't be seen by the general public. I always thought that was a hoot. Edwynn, do you feel nuns are throwing their religion in your face by wearing their habits?

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