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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 9:02:40 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Rich, instead of getting your panties in a bunch, why not start to explain the benefits of the GOP's actions?
Why should the government NOT provide assistance to women that want or need to have an abortion???
What is a great alternative?
Do you advocate teenagers/women having children they clearly do not want, can't afford, and are not willing or able to take care of??

tag, you are it


Marriage.

Not glorifying teenage mothers or single mothers.

Marini, the other thing that should be looked at is the demographics of who is having the abortions. It is rather sad.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 9:10:49 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Why should the government NOT provide assistance to women that want or need to have an abortion???




Because I don't view being an abortion provider, or a morning after pill provider, as a legitimate function of government, Mari. I draw the line down around the public health issues of STD treatment.

(Yes, I know how the PP accountants dance to show they aren't doing it with federal money. That just pays the light bill, and the salaries of those same accountants.)

You want to play tag with me? Get out of that mudpit you've been rolling in, and come play on the grass.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 10:48:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You're being dishonest or you are grossly misinformed.

Anti abortion legislation is pouring out of republican controlled statehouses.

South Dakota passed a 3 day waiting period effectively banning abortion in the state unless the women lives very near the provider.

Kansas banned abortions after 21 weeks (several other states are in the process of doing the same).

Florida is considering a bill that would require an ultrasound with the fetus being decribed to the woman before an abortion could be done.

Ohio is working on a law to ban abortion entirely if a heartbeat could be detected which would ban all but the very earliest procedures.

The federal House has passed several bills that would affect whether insurance could pay for abortions as well as the aborted attempt to redefine rape to restrict abortions in HB 1 (odd that the first bill was a jobs bill but an attack on women).




"Considering." "Working on." Tell me, Ken, do you consider a waiting period before buying a gun a violation of the 2nd Amendment?

This story is 38 years old, and it amounts to squat. Let me know when SCOTUS says any of them pass muster.



So the laws passed are of no concern? How many women will suffer befor some judge overturns the laws? What happens if the overly politicized SCOTUS chooses one fo them to overturn the Right to Privacy entirely?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 10:55:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I have to wonder where the morning after pills play in all this. If.. and I say if because I dont expect it to happen in my lifetime.. the decision to allow abortions to remain legal is overturned, I forsee an increased usage of IUDs and medications.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:16:39 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		And if my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle, Ken. We have pushing 40 years of these laws and restrictions being run up the flagpole, and coming right back down again.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:16:51 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have to wonder where the morning after pills play in all this. If.. and I say if because I dont expect it to happen in my lifetime.. the decision to allow abortions to remain legal is overturned, I forsee an increased usage of IUDs and medications.


A quick answer Tazzy, without a medical technology breakthrough such as a uterine replicator, Roe v Wade will not be overturned. The Supreme Court gets to decide the cases that they will hear. They will never pick a case that will overturn Roe v Wade.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:19:42 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have to wonder where the morning after pills play in all this.



The lawyers and pundits will do their thing, Tazzy, but the morning after pill amounts to an abortion, in my opinion.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:24:44 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have to wonder where the morning after pills play in all this.



The lawyers and pundits will do their thing, Tazzy, but the morning after pill amounts to an abortion, in my opinion.




I would have to disagree Rich. The morning after pill is pretty much the equivalent of taking several birth control pills. It prevents the zygote/fetus from attaching because it makes your body think that it is already pregnant (it disrupts ovulation). Which makes it contraception and not abortion.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:34:43 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

The lawyers and pundits will do their thing, Tazzy, but the morning after pill amounts to an abortion, in my opinion.


Hmmm... an abortion before there is even a pregnancy.

A little more background. The morning after pills works the same way as an IUD, in the sense that both prevent implantation. Most are effective from as little as 72 hours to as long as 120 hours after unprotected sex. Since implantation begins around 7 days after, this cannot be termed an abortion.

I do forsee better and safer methods coming on to the market as a result of all the current hoopla.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/16/2011 11:39:17 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:46:35 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The lawyers and pundits will do their thing, Tazzy, but the morning after pill amounts to an abortion, in my opinion.


Hmmm... an abortion before there is even a pregnancy.

A little more background. The morning after pills works the same way as an IUD, in the sense that both prevent implantation. Most are effective from as little as 72 hours to as long as 120 hours after unprotected sex. Since implantation begins around 7 days after, this cannot be termed an abortion.

I do forsee better and safer methods coming on to the market as a result of all the current hoopla.
It's quite a leap to apply the term "abortion" to morning after pills Rich...I'm not sure I understand the thinking behind doing so?


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:56:41 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR to several versions of the same question. If the process was underway, and the pill aborted the process, what else shall we call it?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 11:57:15 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What do you call an IUD that has the same effect?

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Without implantation, there is no pregnancy. You cant terminate something that isnt there.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/16/2011 12:01:04 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:02:50 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The GOP has been trying to shut down Planned Parenthood for a long time.  The fact that they failed to do so, means that they will have to explain to disgruntled social conservatives.

The Dems are factionalized, but the GOP is about to fall apart.  The Tea Partiers got way less than they wanted, and the social conservatives aren't making much progress.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:03:04 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What do you call an IUD that has the same effect?



You know, Tazzy, I've never bothered to educate myself on how the IUD works. If it does the magic after the sperm and the egg get together, then yes.

Why the discomfort with me applying the word to a broader range of methods, than just the surgical procedure?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:12:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What do you call an IUD that has the same effect?



You know, Tazzy, I've never bothered to educate myself on how the IUD works. If it does the magic after the sperm and the egg get together, then yes.

Why the discomfort with me applying the word to a broader range of methods, than just the surgical procedure?




First, I have no discomfort on this topic at all.

Second, I am amazed at the lack of information people have who are taking sides on this issue.

Third, I am a teacher of sorts, and this is my field. I am big on patient education.

And last, most contraceptives work on the same principal, the prevention of implantation. With the exceptions of condoms, diaphrams and other physical barriers, the rest are intended to prevent the embryo from implanting into the uterine wall.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Agreed?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:16:21 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What do you call an IUD that has the same effect?



You know, Tazzy, I've never bothered to educate myself on how the IUD works. If it does the magic after the sperm and the egg get together, then yes.

Why the discomfort with me applying the word to a broader range of methods, than just the surgical procedure?




Rich, there are several moments of magic that need to happen for pregnancy. One of them is the sperm and egg getting together. They also have to do so in the right place (tubal pregnancy is BAD.) Then they have to be compatible and divide. Then they have to implant/attach.

If all of these magic things happen then you are pregnant. But not until then. If you keep any of these magic things from happening then it is contraception. You are preventing pregnancy.

If you are pregnant and the pregnancy is terminated then it is abortion (in the first tri-mester). Sometimes by choice and sometimes not.

The discomfort comes from the inaccuracy of calling contraception an abortion.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:24:07 PM   
PilotPTK


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Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The funny thing, Boi, is that they'll just forget all about this hateful bile they spout, and blame Republicans for being divisive and partisan, when the talking points turn.

I'm more pro-choice than most people here. I'm also honest enough to look at what it is that I'm supporting, which is far more than most of them will ever do.

But we are the evil Republicans, who all hate women, and granny's, and black people. That's just what happens automatically when we figure out that government is an awful way to do most things.


Thats quite unfair of you, Rich. No one said you hated women. I have asked why women and children were targeted while the military was given more money.

As far as being more pro-choice than most people here.... ahem... actions speak louder than words.


Perhaps because funding and directing the military is part of the job of the federal government as laid out in the constitution - funding "womens' health" and "family planning" is not.

I suppose you could argue that it falls under the provision of "general welfare", but just like in a family, priorities have to be considered when their is a finite amount of resource to support those priorities.

For the federal government, the military is - and should be - the priority.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:28:03 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Then lets just cut out all women issue funding and let the states pay for the resulting children.

A return to orphanages... ahhh... those were the good ole days.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to PilotPTK)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:32:02 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then lets just cut out all women issue funding and let the states pay for the resulting children.

A return to orphanages... ahhh... those were the good ole days.


You didn't think Miss Hannigan was the schizzle bathing in a bathtub of martini?

We love you, Miss Hannigan.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:41:03 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Semantics, Aylee. The process begins with Mr. Sperm and Mrs. Egg. Keep them from hooking up, you have contraception. Deliberately abort the process after they start, then another word becomes more descriptive. I'm sure people would rather use words without the heavy connotations that "abortion" has, but it still fits the bill.

Tazzy, I was always a big fan of Norplant. If there had been a male equivalent to the starfish of bareback happiness, I'd have been there. Birth control hasn't been anything I've needed to worry about in my house for quite some time.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 60
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