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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 12:58:01 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And if my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle, Ken. We have pushing 40 years of these laws and restrictions being run up the flagpole, and coming right back down again.

You still are evading the primary issue, what happens to the women who are unable to get this legal procedure due to these eventually overturned laws, assuming they are all eventually overturned.

What's to prevent Republican dominated state legislatures from passing unconstitutional restrictions one after another knowing each will remain in effect until overturned a year or two later?

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:04:22 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Semantics, Aylee. The process begins with Mr. Sperm and Mrs. Egg. Keep them from hooking up, you have contraception. Deliberately abort the process after they start, then another word becomes more descriptive. I'm sure people would rather use words without the heavy connotations that "abortion" has, but it still fits the bill.

Tazzy, I was always a big fan of Norplant. If there had been a male equivalent to the starfish of bareback happiness, I'd have been there. Birth control hasn't been anything I've needed to worry about in my house for quite some time.

No Rich, no implantation no pregnancy.

Let's say that you and I hook up. I am fertile as Myrtle the turtle. I do the temp check, the mucus check, and pee ovulation check. I am ready to be impregnated. Ms Egg is just waiting. So. . . we go at it hot and heavy and your Mr Sperm introduces himself to Ms Egg and they get it on as well. But wait. . . this is our first time together. My immune system screams "INTRUDER ALERT!" And kills off our new couple.

What just happened?

An abortion? Nope. Because I was never pregnant because it takes 2-5 days to implant and produce hormones. It was natural contraception.

Now. . . let's say that the same thing happens but my immune system does not kill off our new couple. It implants. Six weeks later my body rejects it. For whatever reason.

What then happened?

An abortion. A spontaneous abortion, specifically. Because there was implantation and hormone production, I was in fact pregnant.

Note, I used two scenarios that had no outside influence to show the difference.

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Post #: 62

RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:05:55 PM

TheHeretic

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Funny, Ken. You seem to know all about the difference between climate and weather when it suits your purposes.

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:08:16 PM

CalifChick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Semantics, Aylee. The process begins with Mr. Sperm and Mrs. Egg. Keep them from hooking up, you have contraception. Deliberately abort the process after they start, then another word becomes more descriptive. I'm sure people would rather use words without the heavy connotations that "abortion" has, but it still fits the bill.

It doesn't "fit the bill" because it doesn't mean what you are insisting it means.

You can put sperm and eggs in a dish and get zygotes... is the dish pregnant? When the zygote implants into the uterine wall, then pregnancy occurs, not when the zygote is free-floating. In many women, the sperm and egg can come together and start dividing, yet the zygote still doesn't implant, and the woman does not become pregnant. That is not an abortion either. If that were termed an abortion, then women with an IUD could be experiencing abortions as often as every four weeks for as long as they have the IUD. They are not.

I don't call that semantics. I call that the process of reproduction. Oh, and I don't put any "heavy" connotation on the word abortion, as it simply means ending a pregnancy. Some people think it means deliberately ending a pregnancy, but it does not. For instance, a miscarriage is technically a spontaneous abortion.

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Post #: 64

RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:12:32 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Funny, Ken. You seem to know all about the difference between climate and weather when it suits your purposes.

What the hell did you think this meant?

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Post #: 65

RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:23:55 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Funny, Ken. You seem to know all about the difference between climate and weather when it suits your purposes.

What the hell did you think this meant?

Think it through, Ken. You're a smart guy.

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Post #: 66

RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 1:29:42 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Funny, Ken. You seem to know all about the difference between climate and weather when it suits your purposes.

What the hell did you think this meant?

Think it through, Ken. You're a smart guy.

The only thing I can figure out is you misdirected this comment because you think I was somehow in the group explaing to you that contraception is not equal to abortion.

Other than that I haven't used two terms to make such a statement sensical.

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Post #: 67

RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 2:25:10 PM

TheHeretic

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I'll take that as needing to explain the metaphor, Ken. When we find ourselves discussing global warming, participants on the thread will sometimes reference a cold day, or a cold snap, or a series of urban blizzards that are quickly dismissed as "weather, not climate." I'm suggesting that you are doing precisely that in this conversation. You report that things are being talked about, and worked on, that there might be waiting periods. What about the big picture? The "climate" of abortion rights? What was the outcome on the Federal vote again? What was the last ruling from SCOTUS?

On a bitterly polarizing issue, we are bickering about late term procedures, whether a woman should be fully informed about the procedure, or has to wait a few days, and (thanks, DG!) how wide the sidewalks need to be outside a clinic. Consider the costs to industry of conforming to the demands of the AGW cultists, then whine to us about clinics being required to have sufficient parking. I fucking dare you.

Yeah, Ken, the Republicans took a lot of state houses last November, and the weather is blowing this spring. Planned Parenthood made it safely into the big cloud of carbon dioxide coming from Congress though, and we'll see how many of these proposals get out of committee, get past the floors, get past the governors, and then get past the first courtroom they land in. Until then, you've got nothing but the factoids of a fundraising email.

The climate is trending our way nicely.

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 2:36:00 PM

TheHeretic

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Aylee, Cali, Tazzy, and anybody I'm leaving out;

I appreciate the biology refresher, but I think the conscious decision to intervene has to have a role in what word we choose.

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 2:50:28 PM

WyldHrt

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quote:

I appreciate the biology refresher, but I think the conscious decision to intervene has to have a role in what word we choose.

No, it doesn't. The two words have perfectly good definitions, yet you are attempting to redefine them to suit your own agenda.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 4/16/2011 2:51:05 PM >

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 4:16:05 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'll take that as needing to explain the metaphor, Ken. When we find ourselves discussing global warming, participants on the thread will sometimes reference a cold day, or a cold snap, or a series of urban blizzards that are quickly dismissed as "weather, not climate." I'm suggesting that you are doing precisely that in this conversation. You report that things are being talked about, and worked on, that there might be waiting periods. What about the big picture? The "climate" of abortion rights? What was the outcome on the Federal vote again? What was the last ruling from SCOTUS?

On a bitterly polarizing issue, we are bickering about late term procedures, whether a woman should be fully informed about the procedure, or has to wait a few days, and (thanks, DG!) how wide the sidewalks need to be outside a clinic. Consider the costs to industry of conforming to the demands of the AGW cultists, then whine to us about clinics being required to have sufficient parking. I fucking dare you.

Yeah, Ken, the Republicans took a lot of state houses last November, and the weather is blowing this spring. Planned Parenthood made it safely into the big cloud of carbon dioxide coming from Congress though, and we'll see how many of these proposals get out of committee, get past the floors, get past the governors, and then get past the first courtroom they land in. Until then, you've got nothing but the factoids of a fundraising email.

The climate is trending our way nicely.

You're as incompetent at creating metaphors as you are at finding things worse than Karl Rove done by Deomcrats.

As I already pointed out several of these things are already law and already affecting women. You fail to acknowledge that simple fact.

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 5:26:49 PM

TheHeretic

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Ken, you don't comprehend metaphors. How can you hope to be a judge of a good one? Same as with jokes.

Of course individuals are going to get caught up in the struggles, and tossed like driftwood in the tides. Got a woman put in jail for seeking to terminate her pregnancy? A doctor for terminating them? Show me harm, Ken, not inconvenience. Then clearly show that this is worse than what random chance and fate do to people every day.

Take your time. I'm heading out for the evening.

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 7:15:36 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Semantics, Aylee. The process begins with Mr. Sperm and Mrs. Egg. Keep them from hooking up, you have contraception. Deliberately abort the process after they start, then another word becomes more descriptive. I'm sure people would rather use words without the heavy connotations that "abortion" has, but it still fits the bill.

Definition, Rich.

In mammals, pregnancy is the period of reproduction during which a female carries one or more live offspring from implantation in the uterus through gestation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_(mammals)

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus, resulting in or caused by its death.[1]

The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy, while spontaneous abortions are usually termed miscarriages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion

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RE: Planned Parenthood not getting cut - 4/16/2011 7:22:15 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Tazzy, I was always a big fan of Norplant.

Norplant is no longer available. But, it worked very similar to how other methods of bc work.

Norplant works by preventing ovulation, which means that no eggs are released for fertilization (although it does not succeed in this 100% of the time); by thickening the mucus of the cervix, which prevents sperm from entering; and by thinning the lining of the uterus, which makes implantation of an embryo less likely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

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