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ORIGINAL: ForeverFire
Selfish screws are truly the worst of all. 

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ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

since I have obviously mistaken "being in love" for he's hawt!!... repeatedly...

I have to stand by what I said before...

(oh, and I have had multis froim "fucks" more often than those I think I am in love with)

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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

It has been my experience that the best lover, is a man (or woman) who is seriously in love. I'm not saying sexual infatuation isn't great, I too think sexual chemistry is essential to a romantic relationship, and one of the things you can't "fix." It's there or it isn't.

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But being in love encompasses so much more than mere sexual attraction, being in love is about smiling each time you hear his voice, it's about breaking out in goosebumps when he brushes his scruffy chin against your neck, its about sniffing his crotch for the endorphin rush alone. When you are both mutually that "in" to each other, there is a mutual giving and taking that tends to be quite magical and to feed on itself. The more sex you have, the more you want. The sex act itself becomes less about sex and more about love.

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Can you spell multiple orgasms?

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Agreed! I feel some women approach relationships with a check box when chemistry is something that can never be accounted for. Ultimately the people we seek should be measured as individuals but many women seem to appreciate men more for achievement etc. Maybe its a byproduct of women being tought to look for good husbands or whatever in the past. I need to feel the urge to rip off a woman's clothes (which btw I don't always feel when I see an attractive woman), and I need to know that she feels at least a good bit like that in turn. It shouldn't be half-hearted or one-sided.

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ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I have been called a slut (in the negative sense) because I have on more than a few occasions fucked the brains outta a guy, not because I wanted a relationship, but simply because he was sexually appealing to me.  Sometimes that lead to a relationship (usually shortlived, but hey..), sometimes it didnt.  what MATTERED was that the chemistry was THERE..

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Agreed! I feel some women approach relationships with a check box when chemistry is something that can never be accounted for. Ultimately the people we seek should be measured as individuals but many women seem to appreciate men more for achievement etc. Maybe its a byproduct of women being tought to look for good husbands or whatever in the past. I need to feel the urge to rip off a woman's clothes (which btw I don't always feel when I see an attractive woman), and I need to know that she feels at least a good bit like that in turn. It shouldn't be half-hearted or one-sided.

i don't fully understand the concept many women have about chemistry or the expectation (especially in this realm) that these things are set aside by the opposite sex in exchange for compatibility in other areas. This is usually followed by some weird lamentation that he didn't find her attractive or he's being shallow and she can't understand why can't see or accept her "beauty" and look beyond the physical. It's in these instances when i sincerely wish to say, "are you fucking nuts?" Why on earth would you ever crave a man that didn't find you deliciously irresistible from head to toe? How could you possibly serve someone that has to "force" himself to be intimate and cannot grasp or appreciate your sensuality without external provocation or mental manipulation? i digress it leaves me truly confuzzled.

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Chemistry is one of my make or breaks and i've had many men line up in other areas that just didn't trip my switch. i have never gone forward as the idea of faking or having to grow into an attraction leaves me pretty cold. i like what i like and i don't believe a man should be demeaned for feeling the same or made to believe he must augment his natural self to appeal to someone's inadequacy about their physical presence. Nor will i denounce his hunger or make him apologetic for his need to sate that at the expense of my comfort or feminine sensibilities. i'm more inclined to encourage a full unveiling of both coupled with an unflinching need for transparency. i don't want bits and pieces of his essence, i'm far too greedy for that. i want the whole kit and kaboodle in all its unpleasantness. He shouldn't have to camouflage it for me. There's something very off with that in my opinion.

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Not to overcomplicate the issue but I used to know what love was until I had a few long term relationships. Now I'm not so sure if what typically passes for love today actually is what it is supposed or reputed to be. I think what passes for it is in fact just a strong affection that is made particularly intimate with sex so it seems that way. On the other hand there is intense but brief infatuation, and it seems that a lot of people describe that as love too. I guess this is where it turns into a tiring philosophical exercise but just speaking from my own experience a good or great lover is not always or even often someone one is in love with, just someone there is a strong connection of some sort with!

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ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

since I have obviously mistaken "being in love" for he's hawt!!... repeatedly...

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

"Confuzzled" is a good one lol. I think people in the West particularly after feminism tend to separate the body and the soul/heart/mind into separate components. Men are seen as shallow for desiring a woman for her body over and above her mind. Its a bit like saying a train should run on a road rather than a track. If one thinks about it, it doesn't make any real sense. We desire - it is a function of physiology. That by the way doesn't make it right for men to treat women as pieces of meat but a function should be understood for what it is, not what some think it should be!

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Most importantly the mind isn't the chocolates and the body the box. We are one unit that is not divisable. The body is not the same as the mind but it defines the mind - we are men/women of X age, that grew up in region Y etc etc. Thus the body is who we are in so many respects. Thus for a man to deeply desire a woman for her body is anything but superficial! I think it is this plainly wrongheaded notion that many people have which leads to the sort of folly in relationships you describe.

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You are quite right about that. It is better to accept and hopefully enjoy the whole messy situation with sex and desire than repress it. As a man I think it is important not to presume too much or take liberties with women but at the same time it is a matter of good faith to be genuine about the elephant in the room which the French existentialists spoke about (the story of a man taking a woman's hand and she pretending not to notice). In that respect I think faking is almost as close to a sin in a relationship as adultary even if it is done to make the male partner feel good. Chemistry is the key quality - the one thing that separates sexual relationships from other types. Its not merely body parts but a subtle phenomenon thats hard to analyse. I have heard a lot of BS from studies about this. Plenty of men find some women very attractive who are not conventionally pleasing to the eye.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine
my personal concept of relationships isn't Western derived. i see the two facets as necessary components of a greater whole - each having its respective part (or place if you will) - that when combined creates something wonderfully beautiful that would not exist without its coalescence. In my mind sexuality is sacred and an art that has yet to be explored in its greater depths by most in our culture outside of physical stimulus. Whereas i desire to tantalize on every level imaginable. This allows for the profane and the ethereal. It's all good in my opinion.

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For a woman to accept that a man sees and finds pleasure in her physical form requires an inherent acceptance and appreciation for it as well. Most fear that he is taken in by the shell and rarely glimpses the bones. And in their defense they focus on the internal to the detriment of its opposite. Both should be nurtured in equal measure.

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In spite of my conservative upbringing our French ancestry rubbed off on me in some interesting ways. i'm certain my philosophies concerning beauty and sexuality are heavily influenced by the things i saw and experienced. i have a hard time accepting the dichotomy i observe which promotes one idea while carrying out another in secret. That takes too much energy to maintain and creates the compartmentalization that many struggle with. It becomes very obvious when we discuss the 'submissive self' and the 'woman' which is often viewed as separate and rarely unified.

The split is often due to the internal unrest about the need to yield that juxtaposes the societal ideologies they've embraced. Most attempt to carry both but the end result of doing that is constant adjustment and a struggle to keep the balls in the air. At some point one must reconcile the differences and choose which philosophy you'll adhere to. When all things are on one accord the supposed challenges begin to lessen and the primary decision rests in following the leader rather than jockeying for position or feverishly attempting to hold on to what was in the midst of ones 'submission'. In short, your emphasis is on yielding and allowing what must fall by the wayside to do just this with a quiet adieu as opposed to a power struggle.

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In terms of what is fake or genuine, i think that goes much deeper than a orgasm. Before one gets to the point of misleading ones partner in bed you've already set the ball in motion in other areas. We're not a people that places a value on authenticity and unveiling our real selves. We're afraid of rejection and being inadequate or 'not enough' in some way. For if he sees the 'real me' he may find i'm not beautiful or to his liking. But alas, it is that very thing that often makes him love her with a searing passion that layers would never inspire. Show him your tears, weakness, insecurity, and everything in between and you may find yourself gazing at his. Then we're prepared to relate and truly merge. But until that occurs we're merely skimming around the edges.

Once upon a time i swam in the same murky waters. One day my eyes opened and what was no longer applied. i abandoned the path of slavery and boldly entered one that offered something far greater. Not a common way of being, but an enlightened way of relating that has existed since the beginning of time. i merely had to open my mind and heart to receive its message. And when that occurred i saw He and i and the two were One. It was such a mesmerizing picture. That is what inspires me. Having a consort implies all these things and far more.

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ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

i'm not a heterosexual man, so i can't speak from that point of view, but i can from mine. i have had a number of good lovers, all of them women or gay men, i have never encountered a heterosexual man who was more than a mediocre lover.

a good lover engages your entire self in the sex. your whole body and mind become an erogenous zone. she fucks all of you. a good lover studies her partner in the minutest detail, memorizing every reaction, every gasp, twitch and sigh, and using that information to deliver the most erotic and satisfying experience possible to her lover. a good lover's primary focus is on her partner. she never allows her own pleasure to distract her from her main purpose, to satisfy her lover in the most complete way she can.

a good lover is not some thing you are, it is something you do.

hannah lynn

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

~FR~
A good lover is a woman you are happy to take to bed and not fuck.