Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it

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gungadin09 -> Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:02:00 PM)
A late attempt to un-hijack another thread. pam

vincentML -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:42:24 PM)
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vincentML -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 A late attempt to un-hijack another thread. pam Human nature is primative predatory violance hidden only by the thin cloak of socialization. Greed, rape, and murder are constantly struggling to jump free and wreck havoc.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:45:06 PM)
I'm gonna agree with vince. Mankind has been on this planet for about 2.4 Million years. It is only in the last couple of generations that we have made an attempt at being 'civilized'. There is a LOT of programming to undo.

dcnovice -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:45:08 PM)
I love the story, and hope it's true, of the elderly professor in the sixties who watched student protesters chanting "Let it all hang out." "My God," he murmured, "it took us five thousand years to get it tucked in."

imperatrixx -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:46:15 PM)
human nature is war. two extremes vsing each other giving rise to moderation.

vincentML -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 9:50:44 PM)
Moderation seems a delusion. Wars have become more violent with more efficient killing machines and nothing ever seems to get resolved. All the old issues persist in altered forms, ya think?

imperatrixx -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 10:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Moderation seems a delusion. Wars have become more violent with more efficient killing machines and nothing ever seems to get resolved. All the old issues persist in altered forms, ya think? oh no doubt the people won't get more moderate. just...you have one side screaming a and the other side screaming z and after all the screaming is done we usually end up with something like m.

Kirata -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 10:46:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Human nature is primative predatory violance hidden only by the thin cloak of socialization. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam It is only in the last couple of generations that we have made an attempt at being 'civilized'. quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx human nature is war. The running time on this refreshing and scholarly BBC video (linked below) is 49 minutes. Trust me, it's worth it. The Mother City of Caral K.

provfivetine -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 10:57:54 PM)
Human Nature is simple. Every person acts to attain an end that is meant to better their current condition - subjectively valued of course. Humans are inherently peaceful and aggressive; both cooperation and violence are natural to mankind.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 11:07:25 PM)
human nature is....wait. ok. just assume it was controversial, a little confusing and rudely presented. hannah lynn p.s. actually i think human nature is supremely self centered. preservation/promotion of self is the driving principle.

Termyn8or -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/22/2011 11:27:38 PM)
FR I think vince has a pretty good handle on it. We are born animals, predators. I don't believe that we should be vegan because of the shape of our teeth (purported years ago), I believe we are predators because of the placement of our eyes. It's not called a dog eat dog world for nothing. It took me 45 years to get a grip, and when that happens you really do move beyond. It requires a disassociation process that would be attributed to some attention deficiency or mental disorder. I am serious. Truth is, even that doesn't work perfectly. I can take alot of shit, but there is a breaking point. For me anger is a different thing. For one I do my best not to turn frustration into anger and I'm not doing too bad despite a pretty good test today (well Friday at work). I might post details but not here, but suffice it to say that I was accused of something not my fault. That is a very difficult test for most people. My professionalism prevents me from taking the normal action. My normal action is to become guilty of the accusation - and get away with it. Accuse me of stealing ? I am not a thief but I'll make an exception. And whatever it is I will leave it in a pile of ashes. Right in plain view. But this has to do with my professional integrity so that is not an option. So I AM frustrated at this point, but I won't convert it to anger. I have to keep reminding myself that the person with whom I am at odds is a fucking ignoramous. There is one other issue. Animals don't usually prey on their own kind. Of course there are exceptions, but with Man, it is no exception. If I decide this person is an enemy violence is not the answer, and asserting myself is no good because that would fall on deaf ears. I could kill him in business easily, but there are two problems with that. One is that he is about to retire, and the other is that I simply don't want to be in that business. But look at people. Look at "normal" people. Look at the traffic cam thread. Just how fucking valuable is these people's time ? Is it worth the lives of others ? We saw on this forum a dog that rescued another dog from the middle of the highway. Most people would not risk their life to do this for another person. And to tell you the fucking truth, neither would I. Hate me if you want, but at least hate me for what I am. And another thing about humans. Love has been proven to be an illusion. Maybe people don't see this because we were born into it. Consider all the people who cheat on their spouses. You don't do that if you are in love. I am starting to think that more [lower] animals feel love more than humans. Perhaps I see this because I've witnessed the real thing. Lucky me, I would be better off without it. Will I ever feel love gain ? I hope not because it is insanity. Now it is more "We have an agreement". Look at the spouses jilted by cheating partners. Are they hurt or angry ? Most are angry. I don't pretend anymore. My inner asshole is alive and well, he just doesn't do the things many do now. But then, that may indicate that my own "humanity" is a facade. I'm just a bit better at it. [returning the soapbox for the deposit] T^T

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 12:40:08 AM)
quote: Will I ever feel love gain ? I hope not because it is insanity. but what fucking glorious world enriching, life fulfilling insanity it is!! hannah lynn

gungadin09 -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 1:07:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Human nature is primative predatory violance hidden only by the thin cloak of socialization. Greed, rape, and murder are constantly struggling to jump free and wreck havoc. Those are characteristics that humans have in common with the rest of the animal kingdom. i would have called them animal instincts, and they undoubtedly form part of human psychology. But what makes them "human nature", as opposed to just "animal nature"? i'm gonna echo one of the sentiments on the other thread: that in my mind for traits to qualify as "human nature" they have to set us apart from other species, not bring us together with them. What makes humans different from other species? For example, you might say that "creative violence" or even "evil" is something that sets the human species apart. Serial killers who torture their victims slowly and methodically, with the idea of inflicting the most pain as possible for the pure joy of seeing them suffer...that is uniquely human. i don't think that other animals torture. Other animals do covet, steal, rape, and kill. But the reason murder is a separate crime that applies only to humans is because only humans seem to have the ability to think outside of themselves and imagine what it means, in the other person's eyes, to be murdered. The ability to see things from another's point of view seems to be a characteristic trait. pam

Edwynn -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 5:36:07 AM)
I have never felt any true, genuine, gut feeling urge to either rape or kill another person. I have been in several and various 'altered states' of consciousness that would have exposed this urge were there any vestige of it whatsoever. Now that we have established that I am inhuman ... I have never seen any animals playing hopscotch, so that get's my vote as to what separates humans as being truly unique.

gungadin09 -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 5:53:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I have never felt any true, genuine, gut feeling urge to either rape or kill another person. I have been in several and various 'altered states' of consciousness that would have exposed this urge were there any vestige of it whatsoever. Now that we have established that I am inhuman ... ...and not even an animal. Maybe You're a plant. But, actually, i was referring to traits that humans (or animals) tend to have, not traits that every single human (or animal) has. pam

Edwynn -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 6:01:42 AM)
Some animals use simple tools, and a few actually shape them. But that's more an evolution or refinement. But I can't see where any of them actually create or invent anything. Animals understand 'play,' but humans invent games. Even aside from the strategy involved in games, just the convolution of the game itself is something I don't see in the animal world. I think that is something more across the board for humans, just 'making something up' with out any necessary or compelling reason to do so. The computers we are typing and doing searches on are just an evolution from when we shaped sticks and rocks. Just tools. What to put into or extract from this tool I am typing on sometimes involves something 'necessary,' at other times something just for notional interest or ... I'm not always sure what. I almost tripped over the 'why are we here?' thing, but I deftly avoided it at the last moment.

gungadin09 -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 6:23:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn But I can't see where any of them actually create or invent anything. Animals understand 'play,' but humans invent games. Even aside from the strategy involved in games, just the convolution of the game itself is something I don't see in the animal world. I think that is something more across the board for humans, just 'making something up' with out any necessary or compelling reason to do so. i agree that creativity is human nature, but i don't think it's unique to humans. For example, mockingbirds listen to the calls of other birds and then combine them in bits and pieces to form a new calls. They do not simply mimic the calls of other birds, they use them to create something new. As far as i know, they have no compelling reason to do so. i guess my point is that for me, for a trait to be considered part of human nature, it doesn't have to be possessed by all humans, or only by humans. Anyway, this was my list from the other thread: complex cognition the ability to think theoretically sophisticated language sentience the ability to project into the future creative thinking advanced tool making and technology altruistic behavior food sharing the need for companionship the tendency to mate with one individual for long periods of time cultural accomplishments such as music, dancing, art, language the concept of morality and sin archetypes the ability to imagine things from another's point of view a fierce desire for the possession of a remote pam

tazzygirl -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 6:45:37 AM)
quote: Mankind has been on this planet for about 2.4 Million years. It is only in the last couple of generations that we have made an attempt at being 'civilized'. I have to disagree with your statement. It all depends on what is considered "civilized". If you go by todays standards of that word, no generation ever has been.

vincentML -> RE: Human nature- whatever you wanna say about it (4/23/2011 7:39:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Mankind has been on this planet for about 2.4 Million years. It is only in the last couple of generations that we have made an attempt at being 'civilized'. I have to disagree with your statement. It all depends on what is considered "civilized". If you go by todays standards of that word, no generation ever has been. I agree that mankind has all the attributes of creativity, imagination, invention, altruism, awareness of his (generic) own death, and i also agree with hannah lynn that life is delicious. Or can be if you are freakin lucky in the right place at the right time. But "civilized?" Nah! In more ways than i can count we are first and foremost TRIBAL. We act out of tribal emotions of fear and vengence. Free Will, if it is not a delusion is subordinated to tribal emotions. To confirm this all you have to do is study the patriotc run up to any war or any election in a democracy. Tribal! Us v Them. We are good; they are evil. Do you really believe individuals have free will? Maybe a few? Not so sure.

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