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Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 7:04:22 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		NATO strike kills Gadhafi's son but leader escapes


Be means of a missile, or a bomb, NATO blew up a house with Kuhdaffy in it, killing the rogue leaders son, and three of his grandchildren.

Fair or foul?

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 7:08:49 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		I can't think of anything fair when a kid dies. I don't give a fuck who they were after. It just sucks all the way around.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 7:54:27 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		You can't count the number of people that Gadhifi had killed. They are not trying to overthrow him because he was such a nice guy.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 7:56:02 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		lets count the people america has killed

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 8:20:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Ya know, RO, if america is such a bad place in your views, why are you still living here?

As far as the Op, Rich, its never fair when children die.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 8:24:28 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I'm still trying to figure out for the life of me why Libya and not Syria or any of the other countries doing the same things.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 8:25:24 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Ya know, RO, if america is such a bad place in your views, why are you still living here?

Maybe because it's his home.


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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 8:49:00 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
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Status: offline 		It's called collateral damage, Tazzy, and one of the reasons that people say war is hell, is that they are irrelevant.

The question of fair or foul is the decision to attempt assassination of Kuhdaffy, probably by remote control US aircraft.

I make no claims to high expertise on international law, and those who do claim such expertise are probably going to argue amongst themselves over this. Bush defended his decision on the grounds that the Reagan Executive Order doesn't apply in wartime. Obama has gone along with that interpretation, but in Libya, we are quite specifically NOT at war.

I think the whole intervention in Libya was a mistake, this escalation just adds more muck and slime to an already very slippery slope.


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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 9:10:50 PM   
outhere69


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Status: offline 		The problem is that we're not consistent - I don't remember us gunning for the various dictators in the USSR, Rumania, Albania, North Korea, Cambodia, etc.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 9:13:20 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Here's what seems like a decent little read on the law.

Lest I come off as too much of a cold-hearted bastard, it is horrible that innocents were killed, and it's horrible every time that happens. Most horrific of all, is that they mostly have no impact at all on the bigger picture.


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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 9:13:56 PM   
Edwynn


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FR

So far the Libyan government is the only source for this information. The bombing definitely happened, but finding verification of who was killed might be tricky.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nato-air-strike-kills-gaddafis-son-2277464.html


" ... his son Saif and three of his grandchildren were killed, according to a government spokesman."

"The information could not be independently verified, but, if accurate, would be a considerable step on from the terms of the United Nations Resolution 1973, ... "

And from Al Jazeera, after giving essentially the same account as in all the reports I've read so far, added this:

http://english.aljazeera.net/

                                                                                                 Report questioned
Ibrahim had earlier taken journalists to the remnants of a house in Tripoli, which Libyan officials said had been hit by at least three missiles. Given the level of destruction, it is unclear that anyone could have survived. Benghazi rebels, who control a vast swathe of the east of the country, say they cannot trust Gaddafi. Al Jazeera's Sue Turton, reporting from Benghazi, said there were "an awful lot" of suggestions in Libya that the news of the deaths could be fabricated.

"One of the main spokesmen for the Transitional National Council, Abdul Hafez Goga, is saying he thinks it could all be fabrication, that it may well be Gaddafi is trying to garner some sympathy," she said.  "Back in 1986, Gaddafi once claimed that Ronald Reagan, then US president, had launched a strike on his compound in Tripoli and killed his daughter. Many journalists since then dug around and found out that the actual child that had died had nothing to do with Gaddafi, that he sort of adopted her posthumously."



Most likely there were people killed, and indeed it may be that the victims are as claimed, but being that all the relevant information is in the government's hands it might be difficult to verify properly.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/30/2011 9:20:36 PM >

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 10:57:58 PM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		I think its fair, IMO.  The rebels are cheering Saif (Qadaffi's sons death) because Saif was the one who wanted to gut out behghazi.  The attack was on Qadaffi.  He and his wife got away unharmed, but his youngest son and 3(?) grandchildren were killed. 

I feel if the lives of his family meant anything to him.  If the threats against him from NATO meant anything to him...then why did he keep pushing to take back and push back the rebels.

Qadaffi was quoted as saying:

Earlier yesterday Gaddafi, 68, offered NATO and rebel forces a ceasefire in a bid to halt the bombing raids which have targeted his military compounds and communications sites. But rebel leaders in the opposition stronghold of Benghazi, Libya’s second city, dismissed the call for negotiations and were last night said to be celebrating news of Saif’s death. In a televised speech, Gaddafi said he was ready to talk to the US, UK and France if they stopped air strikes. He said: “We were the first to welcome a ceasefire and we were the first to accept a ceasefire, but the crusader Nato attack has not stopped. “The door to peace is open.” But he refused to quit and hand power to the rebels. He vowed: “I have no official functions to give up - I will not leave my country and will fight to the death.”Earlier yesterday Gaddafi, 68, offered NATO and rebel forces a ceasefire in a bid to halt the bombing raids which have targeted his military compounds and communications sites. But rebel leaders in the opposition stronghold of Benghazi, Libya’s second city, dismissed the call for negotiations and were last night said to be celebrating news of Saif’s death. In a televised speech, Gaddafi said he was ready to talk to the US, UK and France if they stopped air strikes. He said: “We were the first to welcome a ceasefire and we were the first to accept a ceasefire, but the crusader Nato attack has not stopped. “The door to peace is open.” But he refused to quit and hand power to the rebels. He vowed: “I have no official functions to give up - I will not leave my country and will fight to the death.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/01/col-gaddafi-s-youngest-son-and-three-grandchildren-killed-in-nato-air-strike-115875-23099017/

If you ask me, The colenel bargained and it cost him his youngest son and 3 grandchildren lives...and he still is determined to keep going, despite his words that he door of peace is opened if NATO stops attacking him.  As he contradicts himself, do you believe him?


< Message edited by Louve00 -- 4/30/2011 10:59:19 PM >

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 10:59:06 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Simple comparisons of very complicated situations over-look that we can`t always or aren`t in a position to do everything or anything we want in a given country.



And this isn`t some whacky adventure alone into the unknown, like Iraq.



We`re not fighting a ground war there and aren`t doing all the air-strikes,work,etc.It`s fairly limited in scope and our fighting men and woman are fairly secure.From the start,the NATO involvement has been to stem brutal attacks already in progress and for protecting dense civilian populations that Ghadafi was content to carpet bomb.



Without our help,it`s very possible the revolt would be over with Ghadafi prevailing.He has a shit load of arms and everything to lose so he`s going for broke.





Listening to NPR last week I heard the former Ambassador to Syria under Jr. ,say that the reason we aren`t doing in Syria, what we`re doing in Libya, is that we can`t.He said the ruling classes control all the weapons and have highly trained and motivated militias.He said a civilian population with a few small arms wouldn`t stand a chance.He said that the civilian pop in Syria wasn`t pissed off enough yet to start a civil war but that the recent killings of demonstrators would start to turn regular folks against the government.At this point he said,the Syrian pres was using a strategy of punishing whole cities if there were/are demonstrations there.This keeps people in line.But twitter and facebook are connecting folks under the radar and may be the one real advantage regualar folks have over the government.





Just to indulge in some partisan analysis....





Wasn`t Ghadafi a buddy-buddy of ours recently?





I remember the cons bragging about bringing him under their wing just after 911 and taking Libya off the terror list,doing oil deals,sucking his cock,etc.



What was that about?



The thread title is misleading.Assassination implies premeditate murder.This would be like saying Randi Weaver`s son was "assassinated" ,after getting into a gun battle with LEO`s.Someone calling that an assassination would be pandering to terrorist kooks who shoot at LEO`s. You start shoot`n up the place with your kin/kids around and they get hurt,it`s the ass holes`s fault.



Implying that Ghadafi`s kin were assassinated is pandering to Ghadafi and his supporters.



What could be the reason for such a ridiculously whacko assertion like that?



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/30/2011 11:02:02 PM >

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 11:08:47 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What could be the reason for such a ridiculously whacko assertion like that?





And what would you call a direct attack upon a foreign leader that we are most certainly NOT at war with?



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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 11:25:48 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Still can`t say what you`re really thinking,...... that must suck.


I just kinda hope that our LEO`s make a direct attack as forcefully as possible the ass-holes.


Who knew that you were so anti-Obama as to be pro-Ghadafi.

What`s up dude?Rough Week?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/30/2011 11:26:40 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 11:27:37 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		What would Sgt. Slaughter do?

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 4/30/2011 11:53:22 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Impeach Obama and charge him for war crimes... Isn't that the typical progressive view point?

After all this IS an illegal war against a country who poses no threat to the U.S.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 12:05:20 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Oh I get it.This is a lame cowardly,backhanded yet failed attempt at defending/deflecting bush`s world class fuck ups.Like how the Stossel thread ended up.

Gotta hand to you cons for loyalty,man.You`d follow satan into hell if he was a neo-con.


Psssssssst. He is a neo-con.

Why is Ghadafi getting so much sympathy from cons?Did he spread that much $$$ around?



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/1/2011 12:06:57 AM >

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 12:28:04 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		He has been in power for how long? half a century or longer? its not like he hasnt been brutal all these decades, so why now, all of a sudden is the US/Nato attacking him? This, imo, is another Iraq and imaginary wmd, any excuse to take over a country for oil. All paid for by struggling over-taxed taxpayers for the financial benefit of oil companies.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 12:30:29 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Impeach Obama and charge him for war crimes... Isn't that the typical progressive view point?

After all this IS an illegal war against a country who poses no threat to the U.S.


sounds fair to me!

after all its what the libercommies wanted to do to dubya!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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