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ORIGINAL: darq

I've been thinking a bit how best to respond.

I would like to say, once again, that when I started this thread, it was never about 'relationships' ... It was about the unrealistic and rather snotty attitudes of dominants who say "Its all about me." and then wonder why they can't seem to find a submissive who wants to be with them. I would also like to say that pronouns I've used throughout this post refer to no one in particular ... When I say "you" I mean you in general.

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Clearly, if you're already involved in a relationship, you did or said something to catch the other person's eye and get the ball rolling. Once you're in a relationship, the dynamic is something that evolves, changes, grows ... I would like to point out here that when I say the word relationship, I mean one where there's actually love, affection, intimacy and yes, domination and submission involved. I am not talking about having a slave come and do chores for you and serve you or even live with you and do chores for you and serve you. There is a huge difference between the two.

With that said, even if 'the relationship in itself fullfills them' they are still getting something out of it. Even if they don't actively think, "what about me" they're still getting something from being with that dominant. Otherwise, they would likely be with someone else. Turn that around and think about it this way ... If this submissive who never thinks "what about me" submits to a dominant and clearly they are being horribly abused, and yet they continue to serve is this really acceptable? Just because you would never abuse your submissive doesn't someone else wouldn't ...

Its healthy to think, every so often, of your own needs. If a submissive literally never thought of his or her own needs they might die of starvation or dehydration. They might never take the time to eliminate bodily waste. Unless of course they're being literally micromanaged and the dominant spends all of his or her time ensuring the submissive is actually doing the things necessary to continue living. Most dominants I've met have expressed a distaste for submissives that require micromanagement. (Yes, I'm going to extremes here but I think its pretty extreme to try and convince me that you've *never* once said ... What about me.)

But again, thats a relationship thing ...

I'm talking about people who present themselves with the rather crappy attitude of, "Its all about me." and then expect other people to be interested in them. What makes you so wonderful? Being dominant doesn't grant a person with superhuman greatness. It just means that your orientation, the one in which you are most comfortable and fullfilled is one of being dominant over another person. Being submissive doesn't make a person somehow less worthy of your time and attention than anyone else. It simply means that their orientation, the capacity in which they find themselves most fullfilled is one of submission to another person.

I'm sorry, but I seriously think that a lot of these dominants who maintain this attitude and this way of presenting themselves to others need to get a reality check. Being honest and up front is one thing. Being abrasive and rude and obnoxious is another entirely. Once you've established the relationship and the submissive genuinely cares about YOU then it BECOMES all about you.

But it aint all about you yet.

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My ex used to tell me all the time that I needed to learn to be more assertive. He watched me struggle so much before I finally submitted to him, dealing with dominants who figured that since I was submissive, I should submit to them and be happy with my lot in life.

I may be a submissive, but I am not your submissive and until I choose to submit my will to yours, it is not all about you. Thats what this is about ... Not relationships that are already established and running well. Because once I've chosen to submit to someone, then yes they become the axis of my life. But to simply parade around as if I've already submitted to you, makes you look foolish.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I've been thinking a bit how best to respond.

I would like to say, once again, that when I started this thread, it was never about 'relationships' ... It was about the unrealistic and rather snotty attitudes of dominants who say "Its all about me." and then wonder why they can't seem to find a submissive who wants to be with them. I would also like to say that pronouns I've used throughout this post refer to no one in particular ... When I say "you" I mean you in general.

The thing is though that the attitude of "It's all about me" seems to work for many dominants.  I've noted that it seems to work for female dominants more so than for male dominants (although Gor masters seem to be more inclined to this attitude also and, within the realm of Gor, it seems to work better for them too).

I'm growing weary of repeating myself so this is going to be the last response I make to this thread unless I see something just mindblowingly interesting. This isn't about the ones it works for ... Its about the ones it doesn't work for. Goreans don't really count into this particular discussion because Gorean girls seek out Masters with that attitude. Saying that it works better for female dominants than male dominants is a great way to start another tributes thread ... lol ... I'm soooo not going there again.

quote:

Clearly, if you're already involved in a relationship, you did or said something to catch the other person's eye and get the ball rolling. Once you're in a relationship, the dynamic is something that evolves, changes, grows ... I would like to point out here that when I say the word relationship, I mean one where there's actually love, affection, intimacy and yes, domination and submission involved. I am not talking about having a slave come and do chores for you and serve you or even live with you and do chores for you and serve you. There is a huge difference between the two.

With that said, even if 'the relationship in itself fullfills them' they are still getting something out of it. Even if they don't actively think, "what about me" they're still getting something from being with that dominant. Otherwise, they would likely be with someone else. Turn that around and think about it this way ... If this submissive who never thinks "what about me" submits to a dominant and clearly they are being horribly abused, and yet they continue to serve is this really acceptable? Just because you would never abuse your submissive doesn't someone else wouldn't ...

Its healthy to think, every so often, of your own needs. If a submissive literally never thought of his or her own needs they might die of starvation or dehydration. They might never take the time to eliminate bodily waste. Unless of course they're being literally micromanaged and the dominant spends all of his or her time ensuring the submissive is actually doing the things necessary to continue living. Most dominants I've met have expressed a distaste for submissives that require micromanagement. (Yes, I'm going to extremes here but I think its pretty extreme to try and convince me that you've *never* once said ... What about me.)

But again, thats a relationship thing ...

I'm talking about people who present themselves with the rather crappy attitude of, "Its all about me." and then expect other people to be interested in them. What makes you so wonderful? Being dominant doesn't grant a person with superhuman greatness. It just means that your orientation, the one in which you are most comfortable and fullfilled is one of being dominant over another person. Being submissive doesn't make a person somehow less worthy of your time and attention than anyone else. It simply means that their orientation, the capacity in which they find themselves most fullfilled is one of submission to another person.

I'm sorry, but I seriously think that a lot of these dominants who maintain this attitude and this way of presenting themselves to others need to get a reality check. Being honest and up front is one thing. Being abrasive and rude and obnoxious is another entirely. Once you've established the relationship and the submissive genuinely cares about YOU then it BECOMES all about you.

But it aint all about you yet.

I could be wrong (because I don't come from that attitude either) but if I am reading Proprietrix (and several others correctly) but it IS all about them.  From the beginning.  And they make that clear.  Isn't it possible that the reason someone else may see it as being rude or obnoxious or arrogant is because their attitude runs so very contrary to our own?  I am not saying that some of these people aren't rude and arrogant...they are.  But then, so are some of the people who have such an attitude as yours...or mine.

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My ex used to tell me all the time that I needed to learn to be more assertive. He watched me struggle so much before I finally submitted to him, dealing with dominants who figured that since I was submissive, I should submit to them and be happy with my lot in life.

I may be a submissive, but I am not your submissive and until I choose to submit my will to yours, it is not all about you. Thats what this is about ... Not relationships that are already established and running well. Because once I've chosen to submit to someone, then yes they become the axis of my life. But to simply parade around as if I've already submitted to you, makes you look foolish.

I agree.  That is the way I have done things as a dominant.  However, I've also noted that agreeing to submit is not always complete submission from the beginning.  It grows.  Maybe because I have been trained to look at things in more than one way (cuz there can ALWAYS be more than one way for things to go right...or wrong), I can look at the profiles of those you note and realize that for many of them, this is a requirement the minute someone agrees to submit to them but then, the one submitting knows that.  For many, there is not going to be much of a "courtship" period.  "This is what I am, this is what you need to know about me, this is what is expected of you...do you agree to submit?"  The submissives or slaves who want that will be happy with that.  There are as many submissive natures out there as there are dominant natures. 

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ORIGINAL: slavejali
I really like your posts Proprietrix, your explanation above is pretty much what it means to me to be with a Dominant partner....its being in that kind of relationship that makes me a slave.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I think what you describe is a recipe for turnover and part timers. I don't really see it as a recipe for sustainable intimacy, which is what most people want and need, save for Veronicaofml, who was quite the odd bird.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I think what you describe is a recipe for turnover and part timers. I don't really see it as a recipe for sustainable intimacy, which is what most people want and need, save for Veronicaofml, who was quite the odd bird.

Quite the contrary, cloudboy, when slavery journeys into its deepest levels, ego is released and feelings of entitlement dissipate.  That is when intimacy changes, and it really truly is all about him.  The result of that is ultimate fulfillment for the slave.  It is the result, however, not the goal.

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OMG, you mean if we say we are dominant we can make anyone do whatever WE WANT????!?!?!?!

I have been doing this ALL wrong!

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I can make it all about Me, but then it really would be.

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a healthy DOM will always foster a sense of independence and individuality in their sub. This self sufficiency is necessary for one's mental health, life balance, and development.

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  Now if giving someone enjoyment gives you pleasure, then it is a mutually beneficial scenario, but unless you just enjoy being altruistic, 99 out of 100 people won't do something for someone just for the sake of doing it.  There is almost always a reason, even if it is a lack of nothing better to do at the time.

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Once you've established the relationship and the submissive genuinely cares about YOU then it BECOMES all about you.   

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ORIGINAL: composer83
personally i dont find it offensive when a Domme comes right out & puts "Its all about ME" right on top of their profile....because ...well.... it is........& as a sub.....i express my affection thru submission so thats where i ....ahem....'get my jollies off'....lol........
but i think many of us still hope for a caring Mistress....