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RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 11:09:51 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I take exception to that.....because it should read "accept"

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 11:19:59 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		According to Paul those who are circumcized of heart are saved - i.e. they are by definition christians - whereas those who are circumcized of penis but not of heart are not.
 
I have heard that many christian male babies are perfunctorily circumcized in the USA. That is the work of Satan. They are all doomed by definition, unless they accept Jesus.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/12/2006 11:23:18 AM >

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 11:36:00 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Because You must Except Jesus that's why.


Why does he get an exception?  I want one, too!

(Sorry, knees.  Couldn't help myself.)


quote:

According to Christanity Jesus died on
the Cross for Our sins.

The only way to the Father is thru the Son!
According to the Bible. 


I am genuinely glad that works for you.  Everyone has a spot where they fit and I'm glad you've found yours.  However, I find it a little narrow-minded for my tastes.  I prefer a broader view of divinity, where there is room enough for more than one "true" religion.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 7:25:13 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		Eh, I've always figured you believe what you want to, I will what I want to, and we can both be happy abd go on with our days.  Don't have to see eye to eye on it.  Just don't like being told what I feel is wrong just because it's printed in a book written by man for man to control other men... *shrug*

Then again, i got kicked out of Catechism classes as a kid for asking a lot of really vicious questions and making audacious statements.  Like asking "If the Bible is the word of God, why are there so many different versions of the Bible?"

Was born a pain in the ass and will most likely die one as well. LOL

- Dustyn


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Can you be more amusing?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 9:54:16 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		What I find a little distressing in this thread as I read it is the hostility toward someone else's belief system. I find it very telling that when Christianity is mentioned there are always those that lash out against it. Granted that it is a double edged sword in that Christians often times lash out at others... but I am just a little taken back by the hostility. I don't think this thread was started to preach, it was to offer a viewpoint.

Perhaps I have read this wrong. I don't know.

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 10:02:13 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

NakedOnMyChain  I am genuinely glad that works for you.  Everyone has a spot where they fit and I'm glad you've found yours.  However, I find it a little narrow-minded for my tastes.  I prefer a broader view of divinity, where there is room enough for more than one "true" religion.

You Pray to Your god or gods.

And I'll Pray What I know Who will Heal me.
When I'm sick, Poor, Out of work! 

Pray when you get sick?
 
Now then Tell me the devil doesn't exist? Just Tell me!
 
Ant


(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 10:08:07 PM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		i for one, am not ashamed for my beliefs and if i am wrong, than i have lost nothing... However if i am right, then what has everyone else lost?

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: End of Days. - 5/12/2006 10:41:38 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Right, when Christ gave his revelation to John, he was really talking about high gas prices in the 21st century.

Vintage American approach to religion there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Gas prices are not stoping and seems to
be never ending also.

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 4:44:51 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		This is just a general comment not directed at the above poster.

My theory is if there is a God, and religion has any truth to it. Then I also believe every religion has invariably misconstrued some aspect of God's desire. Whether that is from intentional fiddling or honest misinterpretation. Almost, all modern religions are based around the concept of one true God. Each of those are just another group interpretting what they think God wants. I find it highly unlikely any one group has God's intentions down pat. This is almost a certainty as most religions are based off the same core god. At least the jews, christians, and muslims and the variations of each. So, my over all opinion is I doubt any of them are a 100% correct or even 70% correct. It seems foolish to think that God wouldn't explain things differently to different people in different times, as understanding and cultures would be different. That doesn't mean the people recording these messages didn't screw up writing it down. But, the basics are pretty well defined. As in don't murder(As a general rule exceptions apply), don't steal, don't lust. Be nice to people, etc... Not being able to bring myself to believe in God, has no bearing on the fact that the central message is sound. It's people believing they are 100% correct, and reading into it what they want to believe that is the problem. Religion in a pure sense is nothing but good(the main stream ones), religion in the hands, of those that seek power and justification by speaking as if they have a greater authority in understanding the message of God are a big problem.

All religious debates break down to I know God better than you. LOL. One might know the bible better. But the bible isn't god, it's a human written book, that's been toyed with by humans. Only God really knows if any are right, or more likely which religion is the closest to correct. It's human arrogance to think otherwise. How would anyone know unless they were God.  To speak with  authority as to what God wants as a definitive based on books written by men, is obsurd. If people accepted that there wouldn't be all this  distasteful conduct between people with different interpretations of God.


(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 5:34:50 AM   
BrutalAntipathy


Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i for one, am not ashamed for my beliefs and if i am wrong, than i have lost nothing... However if i am right, then what has everyone else lost?


This is called Pascal's Wager, and it is wrong because it assumes one god or no god. But what if the Islamics are right? Won't Allah be upset at your worship of the false Yahweh? Or perhaps the Romans were right, and their entire pantheon is pissed over your following a false god.
 
The only way for Pascal's Wager to offer any chance is if you pay lip service to every single god and goddess that has ever been worshiped, and hope like heck that one of them that doesn't forbid the worship of other gods is the right one.

(in reply to kittensmailbox)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 6:32:51 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		You have a sharp mind, NTUY; I have concluded that before.
 
 
Religions provided solutions to problems that existed in the time they arose. Some of those solutions were correct, whereas others increased sufffering. Some of those solutions may still be correct.
 
When dealing with contemporary problems by blindly following scripture, mistakes and errors of judgement are bound to happen. We therefore should always be critical of scripture, as we are also always critical of science and any other 'fact' presented to us as such.
 
These days many people no longer rely on the crutch of scripture, but solve problems themselves.
 
That does not imply that we should reject scripture. If it works: fine. But if it does not work, then we had better produce a solution to our problems ourselves.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 6:42:03 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You have a sharp mind, NTUY; I have concluded that before.



Can I quote that. It doesn't happen often that someone agrees with me. LOL.

Thanks and until we disagree you have a sharp mind to
 

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 7:27:29 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		 
quote:

I've watched the Left behind series and


Am I the only one that noticed that the OP is basing a lot of his theology on an avowed work of fiction?

The author doesn't seem to me to have any particular credentials to place him on a prophetic pedestal....and anybody who calls themseleves Dr. publicly based on honourary doctorates is basically a charlatan in my eye. The series is nothing more than rehashed millenial crap being served up in a palatable manner by a rather skilled author for the sole purpose of making a buck...apparently very good as far as that goes, but hardly "scripture".

As to all the rest, well I'll just say that so far everybody has missed it by varying degrees, but then again that is exactly what to expect when discussing religion, since folks tend to pick one to espouse, and are therefore only given part of the picture.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 8:58:05 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You have a sharp mind, NTUY; I have concluded that before.



Can I quote that. It doesn't happen often that someone agrees with me. LOL.

Thanks and until we disagree you have a sharp mind to
 



I "second" the motion. Needs, you have a terrifc ability to take a problem, or idea, apart, and apply logic to it. I rarely read a post of yours and go "he's lost his mind" lol.
 
Level

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:20:00 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i for one, am not ashamed for my beliefs and if i am wrong, than i have lost nothing... However if i am right, then what has everyone else lost?


This is called Pascal's Wager, and it is wrong because it assumes one god or no god. But what if the Islamics are right? Won't Allah be upset at your worship of the false Yahweh? Or perhaps the Romans were right, and their entire pantheon is pissed over your following a false god.
 
The only way for Pascal's Wager to offer any chance is if you pay lip service to every single god and goddess that has ever been worshiped, and hope like heck that one of them that doesn't forbid the worship of other gods is the right one.


Brutal, how can it be wrong if i did not mention  WHAT my belief was????  So therefore, you are just assuming...   But for the record, i am a Christain, and honesty, i do not care if i am wrong.... Nor would i ever pass judgment on someone Else's beliefs...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:25:12 AM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

NakedOnMyChain  I am genuinely glad that works for you.  Everyone has a spot where they fit and I'm glad you've found yours.  However, I find it a little narrow-minded for my tastes.  I prefer a broader view of divinity, where there is room enough for more than one "true" religion.

You Pray to Your god or gods.

And I'll Pray What I know Who will Heal me.
When I'm sick, Poor, Out of work! 

Pray when you get sick?
 
Now then Tell me the devil doesn't exist? Just Tell me!
 
Ant



Why should illness make it necessary for the devil to exist?

The Christian Lucifer (the fallen angel) is a distinctly Roman myth, only vaguely related to the Bible.

(Lucifer itself is a Roman name for the morning star.)

The Christian Devil is a myth and contrary to the Bible. Satan on the hand does indeed exist in the Bible, but he shares little in common with the Devil created by Roman bishops, besides being the Tempter and Accuser.

*meow*

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:29:23 AM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i for one, am not ashamed for my beliefs and if i am wrong, than i have lost nothing... However if i am right, then what has everyone else lost?


This is called Pascal's Wager, and it is wrong because it assumes one god or no god. But what if the Islamics are right? Won't Allah be upset at your worship of the false Yahweh? Or perhaps the Romans were right, and their entire pantheon is pissed over your following a false god.
 
The only way for Pascal's Wager to offer any chance is if you pay lip service to every single god and goddess that has ever been worshiped, and hope like heck that one of them that doesn't forbid the worship of other gods is the right one.


I will agree that Pascal's Wager taken to its logical end means you must accept every religion which has a punishment for non-believers.

I will note though that Allah is the God of the Jews and Christians. Arabic speaking Jews and Christians say "Allah" just as the Muslims do. It's just a word for God. The Quran itself acknlowedges the God of the Prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the God of the Quran.

*meow*

(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:39:45 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		ArtCatDom,

I very rarely get to read your posts, as I stay out of most serious threads, but when I do, I am amazed at your knowledge.  Okay, you may be full of shit, as I have no way to verify what you're saying, but no one else argues with your facts, so I assume you are not.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Yours (provided you don't mind a dog...  LOL),


benji

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:42:37 AM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

Religious question, since this seems to be the thread for it...

How can a believer in Christ break every single commandment, ask for forgiveness, and enter Heaven, but a person that doesn't believe at all live his life without breaking a single rule of Christianity, and not be allowed?

Is it me, or is this just screwed up?

- Dustyn


Because You must Except Jesus that's why.
According to Christanity Jesus died on
the Cross for Our sins.

The only way to the Father is thru the Son!
According to the Bible.

It's not only by faith but by works also.

Gods know if You've truly excepted His son or not?

Yes Constantly Sinning as a Christian is Wrong!
God knows how to handle that.

Ant,


If I were to say I lived my life by Plato, do I need to accept Plato or simply the teachings presented under his name?

If I were to say I learned logic through Aristotle, do I need to accept Plato or simply the teachings presented under his name?

The interpretation of such assertions is more than flexible. The Koine Greek makes it even more so.

Then making the issue even muddier is the rather shady process of how the canon was established and how other writings and viewpoints were viciously suppressed.

*meow*

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: End of Days. - 5/13/2006 9:50:59 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline
[/quote]



I will note though that Allah is the God of the Jews and Christians. Arabic speaking Jews and Christians say "Allah" just as the Muslims do. It's just a word for God. The Quran itself acknlowedges the God of the Prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the God of the Quran.

*meow*

[/quote]

Cat, Allah is not the God of Christains, we just call Him God....

< Message edited by kittensmailbox -- 5/13/2006 9:54:59 AM >

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

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Profile   Post #: 80
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