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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 8:16:56 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

it sounds like he has gone a bit too far into the fantasy and forgotten the reality

Not necessarily. You have to remember that not everyone has a dynamic that is the same as yours, or the same as anyone else. Some people actually THRIVE on the kind of treatment/dynamic that this man seems to be involved in. Just because it is not something that you would enjoy, does not make it any less realistic.

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 8:37:52 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I appreciate your kind and thoughtful remarks, all of you. I really am impressed by many of the people in this community.
Truthfully, I know this dynamic is not going to work for me. I certainly don't want someone with so little interest in my welfare controlling my life. Glad to know this dynamic is not a given in D/s relationships.

(in reply to EclipseAbove)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 8:45:46 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		OK, for starters I never talk about "a dom" or "the lifestyle". This is how it works in my marriage.

I care a great deal about Carol's feelings and emotions. Sometimes I hurt her anyway. Sometimes I do it on purpose.
Between Carol and I, the "need to get over it" comment would've been a command and the expectation would be obedience.
Courtesy is almost irrelevant between Carol and I because we are so emotionally tight. Empathy is close to absolute.
Our dynamic has nothing to do with any lifestyle except our lifestyle. It is about "us".

Now, a comment. Carol and I have been happily married for 15 years. This Dom you're seeing clearly does not have anywhere near the trrust and respect with you that I have with Carol. Based upon this post I'd say you're never going to find him very worthy. What you know is that this guy is making you unhappy and he's laying the blame for it on "the lifestyle". When you figure out what lifestyle he's referring to you'll have the answer to your question.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 8:51:07 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I am very new and still trying to decide if a D/s lifestyle, in some form, is right for me.
The dominant I have been seeing has told me that he simply doesn't care if he hurts my feelings with his comments, or that some of the things he says and does make me emotionally uncomfortable. When I question him, he simply says that this dynamic is simply part of this lifestyle, I need to "get over it" and I "have a lot to learn". Is this true? I have always believed that courtesy and empathy are important parts of all types of human relationships.
I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle, but I would like to get the opinion of those with more experience. I think this could be important to know before committing to this type of relationship.


His dynamic of being hurtful and uncaring is not a given part of the lifestyle as he claims it to be. It's his way of doing things, not everyone's. If it doesn't do anything for you then move on, at least he's been honest in showing you what he's like. I would not be interested in someone like that in the least, but he might be someone else's dream. You won't find his way of thinking in every man that calls himself a Dominant. People are all different in how they do things and interpret them, BDSM is just like any other area of interest. There are people that do A, and people that do B. You owe it to yourself to figure out what rings your bell and don't settle till you find the person who does those things that make you happy. Life is way too short to spend time with someone who makes you feel down.

Just for the record, my Dom is very mannerly and courtly to me- that's who he is. He cares about my feelings, he takes care to do things in a manner so as not to hurt them, I have a voice in many things that we do. I suppose others could call him not very Dom-like, but what would that matter to us? We're content with our setup. We call our relationship D/s, we call what we do BDSM, if someone else wants to argue our terms or call it something else then they can go right ahead. I fully realize that what we do would be silly to someone else and it doesn't bother either of us in the least since we've both been happy with it.

Btw, the guy you are referencing sounds like an asshat and honestly I dont know many women (if any) who would put up with the drivel he's spouting, but that's just my opinion. Be careful of people who excuse what they do under general terms with the like it or lump it attitude. In general those people don't have a lot of success with getting people to do just that, and they seem to be rejected much of the time.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 9:15:16 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I am very new and still trying to decide if a D/s lifestyle, in some form, is right for me.

The dominant I have been seeing has told me that he simply doesn't care if he hurts my feelings with his comments, or that some of the things he says and does make me emotionally uncomfortable. When I question him, he simply says that this dynamic is simply part of this lifestyle, I need to "get over it" and I "have a lot to learn". Is this true? I have always believed that courtesy and empathy are important parts of all types of human relationships.

I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle, but I would like to get the opinion of those with more experience. I think this could be important to know before committing to this type of relationship.


The term "lifestyle" is nebulous in that is contains many forms, and many of those still are quite disparate when compared to each other. Therefore, to refer to "the lifestyle" casually is like zeroing in from space on to entire continent, which contains countries, prefectures, forests, deserts and islands. The point is, there are a myriad ways of going about general D/s, and ultimately, your dilemma is one of compatibility. Just is it is foolish for him to speak of one singular dynamic as representative of "the lifestyle", so too would it be foolish for us to deny what he desires isn't an iteration of "the lifestyle".

To answer the more direct question in the subject line, I'd say a submissive or slave is going to have feelings, whether they are "allowed" to have them or not. Are they relevant to the man in question? That's more apropos to ask. I could go on about how good stewardship and empathy of some form is important in managing a submissive or a slave, but what's really key is personal and ideological compatibility in D/s, and it doesn't sound like you have very much of it; you seem to be soliciting the forum for an answer you already know or highly suspect.



< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 5/10/2011 9:46:27 AM >

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 11:39:59 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle


Bingo.

The most important thing I needed to learn in BDSM was trusting my gut - which predicts w 100% accuracy when someone is very wrong for me.

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 11:41:55 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Asking whether a sub is allowed to have feelings, is like asking are humans allowed to have them.

The question should be, do I want to be with someone who negates my feelings.

(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 2:04:55 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle, but I would like to get the opinion of those with more experience. I think this could be important to know before committing to this type of relationship.


I would suggest he is being hard on purpose and honestly it is not easy to be hard and use this behavior to teach you what he wants you to learn so respect him more starting now or run, either one. You will soon see that a Dom teaching a newbie is not expected to consider her feelings much like an Army Drill Sargent pays no attention to his recruits feelings while paying close attention to their physical and mental health and forward progress in their chosen path. As in this Drill Sargent example and in all like things, including new submissives, one must be torn down before one can be rebuilt into something much better. Tearing someone down you care about and/or are responsible for is not easy.

So I suggest you be patient and focus on your chosen Dom or quit wasting his time. You owe it to him.

Well wishes,
Arturas



< Message edited by Arturas -- 5/10/2011 2:10:29 PM >

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 2:17:32 PM   
Selectivelight


Posts: 191
Joined: 9/30/2010
Status: offline 		Alright. I understand I'm just taking your side of the situation, and not really trying to dig any deeper. A lot of people are going to want to say something about it. So let me preface this by saying "Either form your own opinions or shut up. I didn't ask for your input."

quote:

I am very new and still trying to decide if a D/s lifestyle, in some form, is right for me.
The dominant I have been seeing has told me that he simply doesn't care if he hurts my feelings with his comments, or that some of the things he says and does make me emotionally uncomfortable.


... Let me describe how this sounds to me, in the best way I am able. Picture if you will a stone archway. Each stone pushes against each other. Each stone is necessary, if one stone is removed, the whole structure will fall...

Him -not caring- ... is the equivalent of removing -HALF- of that archway. This -will not- work out long term. It has nothing to do with domination/submission. He's just a dick.

quote:

When I question him, he simply says that this dynamic is simply part of this lifestyle, I need to "get over it" and I "have a lot to learn". Is this true? I have always believed that courtesy and empathy are important parts of all types of human relationships.


Trust your instincts, and stand by your beliefs. That "Dynamic" is just his making a pathetic excuse to treat you poorly because he lacks the decency to understand that submissive or not, you're trusting him with your heart.

quote:

I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle, but I would like to get the opinion of those with more experience. I think this could be important to know before committing to this type of relationship.


Sounds like you've already figured it out. So I won't beat a dead horse. It's obvious what he wants and what you want aren't going to line up. The -type- of relationship isn't the problem.

[Edited to add] Bottom line is this; You obviously have needs. They aren't unreasonable. They're just yours. Not everyone is cut out for the "Bitch shut the fuck up and make me a sandwich" kind of relationship. Don't try to be someone else because it suits your partner. Find a partner who fits with you to begin with. It's a lot less painful for the rest of us to watch... and listen to.

< Message edited by Selectivelight -- 5/10/2011 2:22:28 PM >

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 3:09:44 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I would suggest he is being hard on purpose and honestly it is not easy to be hard and use this behavior to teach you what he wants you to learn so respect him more starting now or run, either one. You will soon see that a Dom teaching a newbie is not expected to consider her feelings much like an Army Drill Sargent pays no attention to his recruits feelings while paying close attention to their physical and mental health and forward progress in their chosen path. As in this Drill Sargent example and in all like things, including new submissives, one must be torn down before one can be rebuilt into something much better. Tearing someone down you care about and/or are responsible for is not easy.

So I suggest you be patient and focus on your chosen Dom or quit wasting his time. You owe it to him.

Well wishes,
Arturas






What a load of hogwash.


I'm back to ....
1. He's a jerk.
2. He's an emotional sadist.
3. He's a wanker who doesn't know what he's doing.
4. All or some combination of the above.

I am semi sweet -
Honey, you do not have to listen to idiots. (that could include me). But I want to remind you that life is about enjoying it. If you aren't enjoying your life and what you are doing, why do it?

What I think is happening is that this dude knows you are new and is feeding you a pack of lies and bullshit (like the above post) because he knows you don't know any better. He couldn't do this / say this crap to any of the women with experience. We know bullshit when we hear it. Many of us have been in your situation and fallen for that line of crap. Many of us have seen our friends or other women fall for that line of crap and have been around to pick up the pieces. Many of us have stood up to assholes who have the audacity to blame their idiocy and lack of social graces on a "lifestyle" or on "training" and "teaching" a woman/newbie.

We know better than to buy bullshit. I think you know better too.

best,
sunshine

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(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 4:05:50 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

What sunshinemiss said, times 100.

Cali


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(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 4:14:40 PM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I am very new and still trying to decide if a D/s lifestyle, in some form, is right for me.
The dominant I have been seeing has told me that he simply doesn't care if he hurts my feelings with his comments, or that some of the things he says and does make me emotionally uncomfortable. When I question him, he simply says that this dynamic is simply part of this lifestyle, I need to "get over it" and I "have a lot to learn". Is this true?


It depends. Have you asked him what the reason for making you emotionally uncomfortable or hurt is? Maybe if there is a method to this madness, it wouldn't be madness. If you have asked him why he does this and he just gives the brush-off "it's simply part of this lifestyle, get over it" answer, it could be he doesn't want you to know the real answer. But it's far more likely he doesn't have a reason for it, or cannot articulate it even if he does.

There are decent reasons for it, though. Some dominants do this because they are cruel and get off on being cruel. Some dominants do this because they are trying to teach you a certain place or role in their life, a place in which your feelings are not so important in the overall scheme of things. A master might do this to get the slave's narcissism under some control, for example. But if you have asked him why and he has just given you a non-answer, then you need to decide if, based on everything else he is to you, a non-answer is acceptable. For me, it truly "depends" on what else the other person is. If he is otherwise exactly what I need, the non-answer wouldn't bother me at all. Otherwise, it might be a concern.

quote:


I have always believed that courtesy and empathy are important parts of all types of human relationships.


In matters having to do with dominance and submission, this depends on the type of relationship you are trying to build. I think the advice you've been given so far is fine, and don't want you to doubt yourself. I'm just pointing out that there are some D&S relationship styles in which this would be an activity welcomed by both parties. (But in that sort of situation, both parties are usually fully aware of the benefits of this behavior, as awareness and understanding aid its effect, and you are clearly in the dark. So maybe he is, too.)



< Message edited by aromanholiday -- 5/10/2011 4:15:20 PM >

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 4:40:23 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		dang it, edited to say I agree with Sunshine 100%, both her advice to you and her knowing hogwash when she sees it.

Some day I will start reading an entire thread before I waste keystrokes saying whats already been said so well.

< Message edited by JstAnotherSub -- 5/10/2011 4:42:47 PM >

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yep

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 4:46:54 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
I am very new and still trying to decide if a D/s lifestyle, in some form, is right for me.
The dominant I have been seeing has told me that he simply doesn't care if he hurts my feelings with his comments, or that some of the things he says and does make me emotionally uncomfortable. When I question him, he simply says that this dynamic is simply part of this lifestyle, I need to "get over it" and I "have a lot to learn". Is this true? I have always believed that courtesy and empathy are important parts of all types of human relationships.
I am starting to think that this dynamic has more to do with him than any lifestyle, but I would like to get the opinion of those with more experience. I think this could be important to know before committing to this type of relationship.

Castrate him and tell the judge that you were asleep when you did so.

Or tell him Goodbye and give him an old tea-cup - preferably unwashed - as a parting present.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 5:03:02 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The obvious answer is that subs have feelings, whether allowed or not.  How they're expressed and dealt with is individual with each Dom.

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 6:34:00 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		 
Pssst...






Attachment (1)

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 7:26:05 PM   
Killerangel


Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I would suggest he is being hard on purpose and honestly it is not easy to be hard and use this behavior to teach you what he wants you to learn so respect him more starting now or run, either one. You will soon see that a Dom teaching a newbie is not expected to consider her feelings much like an Army Drill Sargent pays no attention to his recruits feelings while paying close attention to their physical and mental health and forward progress in their chosen path. As in this Drill Sargent example and in all like things, including new submissives, one must be torn down before one can be rebuilt into something much better. Tearing someone down you care about and/or are responsible for is not easy.

So I suggest you be patient and focus on your chosen Dom or quit wasting his time. You owe it to him.

Well wishes,
Arturas




How intriguing. I am assuming you wrote this from a personal point of view that you yourself subscribe to. Interestingly enough, I have seen a distinct lack of results in your methods within these forums. Seems rather strange to back a training method that seems to fail.

The bolded statement above is especially full of crap. Don't speak as though there is a standard practice of how Doms teach newbies, especially when your own record seems so abysmal. It's very irresponsible to speak as though there is some common way of doing things when there is no such thing.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 8:05:46 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline 		of course a sub isn't allowed to have feelings, what a dumb ass question. subs are simply vessels to be filled with their master's seed. rtfm, baby, RTFM!!!

doms aren't allowed feelings either, they must be utterly heartless bastards.

only switches are allowed feelings, the only problem is that we just can't decide how we feel about things

hannah lynn

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 9:43:18 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		  Fast, fucking reply.

Since when does being submissive imply you have to be a moron.  If emotional masochism doesn't turn you on, then get the fuck out.  Why the fuck are you asking advice on a common sense issue such as "Should I become involved with someone who makes me unhappy." - Unless you crave unhappiness, the obvious answer is fucking no.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fucktard of the highest degree.  Unless you deliberately seek misery, cut all contact with this head case you're describing.

I hope this cuts through your fog of confusion and answers your question, because this thread is already too long and complex for something as cut and dried as this.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A sub's feelings - is she allowed to have them? - 5/10/2011 9:59:01 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
You will soon see that a Dom teaching a newbie is not expected to consider her feelings much like an Army Drill Sargent pays no attention to his recruits feelings while paying close attention to their physical and mental health and forward progress in their chosen path.
  Frogshit Arturas.  A Dom teaching a newbie has a responsibility to open her up to exploration and allow her to develop her own sense of what she's looking for.  Too many Doms regard newbies as fresh meat to be exploited and moulded to their particular set of desires.  That's pathetic.  Anyone can take advantage of a wide-eyed sub and turn her into a cumslut for their entertainment.  The ethical Dom will teach her and allow her to grow into a mature understanding of her own desires and inclinations.  He does this because he doesn't require a massive power imbalance to get what he wants.

quote:

As in this Drill Sargent example and in all like things, including new submissives, one must be torn down before one can be rebuilt into something much better. Tearing someone down you care about and/or are responsible for is not easy.
  Utter nonsense.  The Army destroys an individual's identity to remould them as a component of a group.  The last thing they want is a free-thinking individual who values themselves over the collective.  Indeed, the Marines destroy the identity of one individual in a squad during training to bind the rest of the squad together.  The individual concerned is usually the weakest and ends up being discharged with his personality fragmented, but they consider this a small price to pay for the resulting cohesion between the remaining squad members.

A sub is an individual who's exploring their desires.  Any cocksucker who destroys the sub's individuality to try and impose their own template upon them is nothing less than a fucking sociopath.


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Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 40
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