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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:41:24 PM   
SilverMark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

No, it isn't. Apparently Sorebutt McCain said so, and added that nothing the vietnamese ever did to him is anything other than enhanced interrogation.
Pathetic, isn't it?


fuck mcsame

I say it IS torture.

who the fuck is he to tell us what it is.  he has a right to his opinion and that is as far as it goes.


Except his years in the Hanoi Hilton,you know, he experienced it as opposed to mastrubating at the thought of someone torturing him.

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:49:43 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

No, it isn't. Apparently Sorebutt McCain said so, and added that nothing the vietnamese ever did to him is anything other than enhanced interrogation.
Pathetic, isn't it?


fuck mcsame

I say it IS torture.

who the fuck is he to tell us what it is.  he has a right to his opinion and that is as far as it goes.


Except his years in the Hanoi Hilton,you know, he experienced it as opposed to mastrubating at the thought of someone torturing him.


yeh keyboard commando.

if you knew anything about him you would know he is despised not hated despised by nam vets.

his name was song bird mcain because he was a fucking traitor.

get a clue.


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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:50:42 PM   
thishereboi


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That should get some kind of cm award lmao

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:52:23 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
get a clue.

He is constitutionally unable to. (I am confident about that diagnosis.)

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:54:55 PM   
samboct


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Mark

I took a quick look at the paper you linked to. I'm sorry- but I think it's a pile of BS. It's an attempt to justify torture of unlawful combatants by making a distinction which is actually rather hypocritical given our history. If you read Ari Fleischer's statement which the author strongly supported about what constitutes lawful combatants- it's people wearing uniforms openly. Well, the last time I checked, during the Revolutionary War, most of the farmers who were sniping at the British didn't bother with uniforms, lines of battle, of any other such niceties of "civilized" warfare- we were guerillas- without a state.

So OBL is either a criminal- (which I happen to think is correct) or he's a combatant- but there's no such animal as an unlawful combatant. I think that's Bush administration BS- or we're guilty of it 235 years ago. In my book- head of the Mafia- i.e. organized crime- is still a criminal even if the masses of criminals resembles an army.

Sam

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 3:57:34 PM   
SilverMark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Mark

I took a quick look at the paper you linked to. I'm sorry- but I think it's a pile of BS. It's an attempt to justify torture of unlawful combatants by making a distinction which is actually rather hypocritical given our history. If you read Ari Fleischer's statement which the author strongly supported about what constitutes lawful combatants- it's people wearing uniforms openly. Well, the last time I checked, during the Revolutionary War, most of the farmers who were sniping at the British didn't bother with uniforms, lines of battle, of any other such niceties of "civilized" warfare- we were guerillas- without a state.

So OBL is either a criminal- (which I happen to think is correct) or he's a combatant- but there's no such animal as an unlawful combatant. I think that's Bush administration BS- or we're guilty of it 235 years ago. In my book- head of the Mafia- i.e. organized crime- is still a criminal even if the masses of criminals resembles an army.

Sam

I just thought it was interesting coming from a Major in the army as opposed to some Sunday morning talking head on a network TV show.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 4:44:14 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I am not arguing that it was wrong for the administration order he Seal team to shoot and kill OBL on sigh, but it is hypocritical for leftists to say we cant waterboard terrorists (which waterboarding is non lethal), or we may not subject them to harsh interrogation of any kind... but we can put a bullet in their heads without so much as a trial.



Odd that you say that, as I admit to have been thinking exactly that way, even if I am more centre thinking than left or right. The problem I had with waterboarding, and Gitmo in general is the number of innocent people caugh up in the nets. An oxymoron in my thinking but oh well.

OBL deserved what he got in my view, if the Seals even thought he was going for a gun then fair play to them for shooting him. I hope all the intel they find on his software helps tham capture more of the terrorist shits.

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 4:46:47 PM   
Sanity


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I guess you dont get the point. Let me put it to you this way -

quote:

Wallace: If shooting Bin Laden in the face is ok why can't KSM be waterboarded?

Chris Wallace, on Fox  News Sunday,  asked Tom Donilon several  point-blank questions  that pushed the White House National Security Adviser  into pleading, "I'm not going to comment."

With a bull-dog tenacity,  Wallace went after Donilon, ultimately placing the Obama official  in the uncomfortable position of defending an outcome, the  killing of Osama bin Laden,  while at the same time the Department of Justice of the  administration continues to pursue  the possibility of  criminal charges against CIA officials who used methods of interrogation that at least six leaders have conceded  made the Bin Laden raid possible.

Following is an account of that, sometimes strained, discussion as transcribed by Devonia Smith, National Political Transcripts Examiner, Examiner.com:

 
The first time Wallace asked, "If shooting an unarmed man in the face is legal and proper, while enhanced interrogation included waterboarding of a detainee under very strict controls and limits  - why is that over the line," Donilon dodged the question, speaking of President Obama's meeting with the SEAL operatives at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

Wallace interrupted and  pushed, " I'm not asking you why it was ok to shoot Osama bin Laden. I fully understand the threat; and I'm not second-guessing the SEALS. What I am second-guessing is, if that's ok [shooting Osama Bin Laden in the face],  why can't you do waterboarding? Why can't you do enhanced interrogation of  Khalid Sheik Mohammad, who was just as bad an operator as Osama bin Laden?"


Continue reading on Examiner.com: Wallace: If shooting Bin Laden in the face is ok why can't KSM be waterboarded? - National Political Transcripts | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/political-transcripts-in-national/wallace-if-shooting-bin-laden-the-face-is-ok-why-can-t-ksm-be-waterboarded#ixzz1LzpnVnRL



quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

..............Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't waterboarding a form of torture ?


Yes and I'm ashamed that ANYONE in ANY US administration could possibly consider it OK.



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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 5:28:33 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Mark

I took a quick look at the paper you linked to. I'm sorry- but I think it's a pile of BS. It's an attempt to justify torture of unlawful combatants by making a distinction which is actually rather hypocritical given our history. If you read Ari Fleischer's statement which the author strongly supported about what constitutes lawful combatants- it's people wearing uniforms openly. Well, the last time I checked, during the Revolutionary War, most of the farmers who were sniping at the British didn't bother with uniforms, lines of battle, of any other such niceties of "civilized" warfare- we were guerillas- without a state.

So OBL is either a criminal- (which I happen to think is correct) or he's a combatant- but there's no such animal as an unlawful combatant. I think that's Bush administration BS- or we're guilty of it 235 years ago. In my book- head of the Mafia- i.e. organized crime- is still a criminal even if the masses of criminals resembles an army.

Sam


which is "precisely" part and parcel to my major bitch about the legal "industry" and I do mean industry.

Justice is and always has been big business and the more the government fucks with the people the bigger the business it becomes for 1, and for 2 this is how they use words of art also known as syntax terrorism to aggregate the peculiars so the law completely loses its fundamental essence. 

If people knew what the words that they carelessly throw around every day really mean when it comes to their "presumed" rights they would most likely puke to discover the reality of it.

The one thing people know the least about is the legal system and when they do get involved they are only to damn happy to get the hell out.

On fact one of the gals, very intelligent accountant, her kid got a frivolous ticket, (I will leave it at that), and she was livid and asked me what was needed for her to go to court and get it dismissed.   So I gave her information (not legal advice), of what was all required to run a simple ticket through and she gasp.  3 weeks went by and I asked her what she was going to do, I will just pay the damn thing and get it over with.

The system is not for the people it is for the municipalities to suck and extort money from the people with bogus and frivolous tickets, literally for bullshit and what they wanted was in violation of her constitutional rights which added even more to her frustration.

welcome to america!  "pay the mob boss"


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 5:33:15 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Mark

I took a quick look at the paper you linked to. I'm sorry- but I think it's a pile of BS. It's an attempt to justify torture of unlawful combatants by making a distinction which is actually rather hypocritical given our history. If you read Ari Fleischer's statement which the author strongly supported about what constitutes lawful combatants- it's people wearing uniforms openly. Well, the last time I checked, during the Revolutionary War, most of the farmers who were sniping at the British didn't bother with uniforms, lines of battle, of any other such niceties of "civilized" warfare- we were guerillas- without a state.

So OBL is either a criminal- (which I happen to think is correct) or he's a combatant- but there's no such animal as an unlawful combatant. I think that's Bush administration BS- or we're guilty of it 235 years ago. In my book- head of the Mafia- i.e. organized crime- is still a criminal even if the masses of criminals resembles an army.

Sam

I just thought it was interesting coming from a Major in the army as opposed to some Sunday morning talking head on a network TV show.


interesting and worth a shit are 2 different things ya thank?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 5:46:23 PM   
SilverMark


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The point of the Major's writing and my posting it, has nothing to do with either a traffic ticket nor some political agenda. The article is an opinion of a person who leads our soldiers into battle and his perception of a combatant versus a terrorist.

It is interesting in the fact that it was prepared for the War College and it is to the point of the original premise of the ops post.
It cites the rulings of the previous administration but, specifically deals with OBL and those involved in his organization and how the military views these people.

It is a basis for what has taken place by one who is actively involved in the conflict.

If you people were able to see past your prejudice you might find it telling as to the mindset of those who now and in the future will be pulling the trigger.

Are you not capable of thinking outside your own opinions?

< Message edited by SilverMark -- 5/10/2011 5:47:29 PM >


_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 6:11:13 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The point of the Major's writing and my posting it, has nothing to do with either a traffic ticket nor some political agenda. The article is an opinion of a person who leads our soldiers into battle and his perception of a combatant versus a terrorist.

It is interesting in the fact that it was prepared for the War College and it is to the point of the original premise of the ops post.
It cites the rulings of the previous administration but, specifically deals with OBL and those involved in his organization and how the military views these people.

It is a basis for what has taken place by one who is actively involved in the conflict.

If you people were able to see past your prejudice you might find it telling as to the mindset of those who now and in the future will be pulling the trigger.

Are you not capable of thinking outside your own opinions?



I told you that they abrogate the merits that drive to the substance of the matter and you hit me up with "and his perception of a combatant versus a terrorist."

I dont give a flying fuck about his opinion, it is meaningless to someone who does not need another to think for them.

If that day should ever befall me, believe it that it will not be "their perception" that I will acquiesce.  I think for myself, get used to it.

Your war boy just needs reasons to make war, simple as that.  (and of course that kind of shit eventually finds its way into the hands of legislatures so they can legislate more of the same bs.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 6:39:59 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


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Please note that a number of posts are missing from this thread. If one or in most cases, more than one of your posts were removed, they were removed for the following reasons: They were a personal attack, they quoted a removed post, they were off topic, they were inflammatory or they quoted posts from other threads.

Thank you

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 8:07:37 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin


.......... What's more after news of his death reached the population's ears, partying and dancing in the street with placards bearing insults, tell me how is that different from those images we all saw of people from arab countries doing similar after they heard about the twin towers ?



It's not different and I said as much in another thread.

ETA: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3657831/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3658170

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 5/10/2011 8:21:57 PM >


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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 8:14:40 PM   
Rule


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FR

Gee! Whomever got posts removed that I quoted, please stop posting posts that I quote that get removed. (This request - on their unsolicited behalf - also applies to whomever got posts removed that other posters quoted: please stop posting posts that other posters quote that get removed.)

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/10/2011 8:16:17 PM   
Rule


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I second that: it is disgusting.

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/11/2011 2:51:28 AM   
Brain


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They did well.


Osama bin Laden raid yields trove of computer data

The assault force of Navy SEALs snatched a trove of computer drives and disks during their weekend raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, yielding what a U.S. official called “the mother lode of intelligence.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54151.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

I hope all the intel they find on his software helps tham capture more of the terrorist shits.

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/11/2011 3:54:34 AM   
Termyn8or


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"When did I say that? "

You didn't. That is what the FR at the top means. YOU need to understand this so that you may, at your pleasure, criticise my style without making an accusation.

So, basically I never said that you said that.

Now back to reading.

T^T

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/11/2011 6:49:59 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What they used to do here in the war, was run wagons full of oil soaked burning jute around the city, so the smoke would merge with the sea fog and hide the targets. But the Gerries just used the rivers, the Tamar and Cattewater as outside markers and dropped bombs in between those rivers, so the dockyards largely survived, it was the city that got the brunt of the blitz. Where I am sitting now on this computer, only fifty yards from me is a big WW2 fuel dump that stored enough fuel to keep the UK armed forces supplied for two days if need be, it was hit several times and beyond that a road laid by the Americans so the tanks and armoured vehicles could line up waiting for the D day landings. This place is rich in military history, with a Napoleanic fortress three minutes walk from here. We have even got a Yank here, a Normandy veteran who stayed after the war, he is fascinating to talk to down the pub, and given his age, he still has all his marbles


What underlies the position of the war hawks in America is our awesome military power and the fact that we were spared the reality of civilian destruction since Sherman marched through the South until the twin towers were felled. Unlike nations like yours whose cities suffered such awful attacks many of us see war through the lens of a video game or a football contest with splendid aerial attacks and daring ground raids lead by the team quarterback. How else to account for our nine years in Afawfulstan? Our leaders cannot even advance a believable mission statement. And there is only a murmur of disapproval from the crowd in the stadium.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/11/2011 6:50:38 AM >

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RE: A bullet in the brain, is it questionble? - 5/11/2011 7:19:19 AM   
Aneirin


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Yep, I was wondering when someone would connect that and that is one of the distinct differences between Americans and British, for we have had in living memory, another country attacking the civilian population with war machinery, for the Blitz was a war on the people of Britain, designed I believe to demoralise the British people. We have also suffered terrorist action long before the current Islamic activities so it could be said, the British are used to it, so it's not anything really new for us, we just deal as we always have.

But then all of a sudden the American mainland is the subject of a terrorist attack and off people go like headless chickens and we wonder what's going on, it's as if all eyes on us we have been attacked. Now the WTC being the WTC that is world trade centre we took to be an attack on the economic world, so we were included in that world, and many of our citizens died there, but it became apparent someone had a particular beef with America in particular because of the other targets and aircraft used. But regards our prior history of terrorist actions against our population we wonder where were America's eyes when our people were being shot and blown up in shopping arcades, pubs and days of national pride. The bomb that was detonated in the town of Warrington, I have personal experience of that, and believe me it scared the shit out of me and I was a few streets away from the detonation.

One thing I do remember from the time was a general feeling of distrust of allies who were known to be funding those who attacked our civilian population via an organisation called Noraid, but also at the time the terrorists were being funded by so called rogue states, Libya amongst them, so where was the difference between the rogue states and those we called allies.

From my birth in 1967 right through to the 1990's, terrorist actions against us was forever in our minds, because it was real,it was happening and it could happen anywhere and we were all very aware, so much so with certain events in certain locations a shark watch scheme was implemented, a watcher who stays off the booze and watches people that come in.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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