RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It!

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[Poll]

Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It!

Let Everyone stay, enforce immigration laws going forward.

4% (3)

Pass The Dream Act, they can petition for siblings like everyone else

6% (4)

Pay for any services used, no crime hx, stay.

6% (4)

Let anyone here for 5+ years, who passes basic English test stay.

8% (5)

For a fee, everyone >2 yrs in the US, W/out, Crime record, stays.

9% (6)

Send anyone here illegally back, to wherever they came from.

39% (24)

Send anyone without basic English skills, <70yo back.

6% (4)

If they can speak basic English, pay a modest fee, stay.

3% (2)

Pay what they've collected from welfare, while illegal, stay.

3% (2)

Fine employers of Illegals, Use money to deport illegals

11% (7)

Total Votes : 61

(last vote on : 6/7/2011 3:29:35 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/11/2011 9:31:04 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

YOU are not part of the "herd" I was talking about!!
Many around here rather insult and name-call, than actually consider solutions, find common ground and/or debate, and you know that!

Whew. Hate to think how annoying I would be to the man if I had to work on my cattle noises.

But, yeah, I do know what you mean. I learned how to mix it up with most of them. Some I respect too much to do that with. Others... eh... they dont register on my radar enough to slip into the mud with.

Wanna pudding wrestle?

I think puddin wrestling would be a lot of fun!
Though I am partial to jello.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 21

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/11/2011 9:47:34 PM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

If the men or women watching you enjoy desserts, I recommend pudding.

M

_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 22

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/11/2011 11:15:35 PM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline

I'm a legal alien. While I am conflicted over feeling this way, I can't help resent all of those who are here illegally. And I have encountered many of them. To say all illegals need to be booted out of this country is too broad a brush to use. I have heard of people (anywhere from children to adults) who were brought here illegally by their parents (also illegal) and grew up believing they were American. How cruel is that to have to exit the only country you have ever known? So I think different considerations need to be put in place. What I do advocate is changing the laws concerning those born in this country. I like Ireland's current stance: If a person is born in Ireland and neither of his/her parents are Irish citizens, he/she is "not entitled to Irish citizenship". I realize this approach will not be without problems, but I believe it would be enough of a deterrent to many of those young women who come to the USA illegally for the purpose of giving birth to a child who they know will be an American citizen.

I can't help wonder if those who say illegals should stay and play a small fee realize that many illegals do have a negative impact on the economy beyond what any small fee would cover. Those having babies here do not pay for their hospital stay. And now that they have a child who is an American citizen, the illegal parent can apply for social benefits on behalf of the child, including free health care and food subsidies. Here in Hawai`i, the construction industry has suffered in the sense that "undocumented workers" were hired illegally, effectively stealing jobs from American citizens. I can't state this as fact, but I have heard of illegal migrant workers who send as much of their earnings as possible to family members back home. If this is true, then this is another drain on this country's economy, as they are literally sending money out of the country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

have worked hard and paid the taxes they were supposed too....

If they're illegal, it's likely they aren't paying taxes.

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)

Post #: 23

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/11/2011 11:47:59 PM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

DeviantlyD, you make good points, regarding returning children with their families, The offspring born in the US is a citizen, can remainwith family until adults, and import their elders.... If these children wish to remain with the parents they can remain in the country, provided everyone remains lawful, M

_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 24

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 12:39:44 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

If they're illegal, it's likely they aren't paying taxes.

Which taxes do you believe they dont pay? Wage? Yep. Most have jobs because they are using someone elses SS number. As long as they provide a valid number, the employer cannot check any further. And, having just gone through a Labor Department audit of the company I work for, they dont care if the employee is illegal. That employee will still get paid, and taxed.

Sales tax? Yep, they pay those too anytime they purchase something.

Excise taxes? I do believe that is what they are called on utilities, and they pay those too.

Income taxes? Most would make little enough to get a refund. That they dont get back. so they are actually paying more into the system than they legally should.

What taxes are they not paying?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 25

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:06:43 AM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

It's true that employed people pay taxes, but I don't believe at the same level, because they know, they will not file for it at the end of the year.
There are also individuals who are illegal, but are willing to collect social programs by having several reproducing children.

I have a minor pet peeve, with illegals, who do not go to work, but can collect assistance, and child care, so they can keep reproducing, for more assistance. Those people who do go to work, they get no childcare assistance. There is no incentive, for an ambitious woman to have a family, since she will be on her own, with the exception of 6-12weeks of maternity leave.

For my self, if people are here, working, educating their children, staying out of crime, thy should be given a chance to stay, and prosper. M

_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:12:51 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

It's true that employed people pay taxes, but I don't believe at the same level, because they know, they will not file for it at the end of the year.

Sexy, income taxes are set... they can change withholding allowances, sure... but only to a certain point. As one explained to me, he claims one, that way they dont take too much, but if he doesn't file for it, they wont red flag because its not a great amount of a refund either. Its how they fly under the radar. They are getting better legal and tax advice than we are.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)

Post #: 27

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 11:56:00 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

asked because I don't even pretend to know the right answer to this dilema.
I have an "we are the world" side, and an "we are the USA," side, and should care about us first.

Sexy, im in the same boat. While illegal immigration is just that in my eyes, I cant help but feel for some who have been here illegally for years, yet never once been in any trouble, have probably been the victims of crimes themselves, have worked hard and paid the taxes they were supposed too.... and we are just supposed to turn our backs on them while our own citizens dont even do that much?

Tazzy, would you feel differantly about an illegal alien who's only been here for three days?
If they've been here for "years" then they've broken numerous of our laws including using phoney Social Security numbers which is a felony.
This isn't a liberal vs conservative issue it's a *law enforcement* issue and if Washington was doing it's job we wouldn't be in this situation would we?
I have a friend in Boston who's a bio-chemist from Ireland and he's paid thousands of dollars and had to jump through hoops for years to get his green card!
He gets bullshit about illegal aliens!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 28

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 12:05:45 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Pops, I never said it should be allowed. But, what do we do with those who are hard working, honest and no criminal record? Hell, how many americans can boast of that?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 29

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 12:12:21 PM

lockedaway

Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pops, I never said it should be allowed. But, what do we do with those who are hard working, honest and no criminal record? Hell, how many americans can boast of that?

What a fatuous argument. The presence of an illegal immigrant is a violation of the law. That they collect wages under the table and not pay federal income tax or social security are also violations of the law. The mere fact that many of them are not committing domestic violence, rape, murder, robbery, burglarly, drug possession and/or distribution DOES NOT MEAN that they are not breaking the law every day.

The solution is enormously simple; the status of a person should be the subject of local law enforcement. Once the person is brought before immigration court, the length of their duration in the country without running afoul of the criminal justice system may be a mitigating factor....but right now, it isn't. There are still a number of ways to avoid deportation; having children, getting married, supporting an American citizen that could suffer a severe hardship because of the deportation.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 30

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 12:19:51 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

The solution is enormously simple, incarcerate and fine the shit out of the employers.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 31

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 12:28:56 PM

VirginPotty

Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline

Send them back.

_____________________________

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 32

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:01:39 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pops, I never said it should be allowed. But, what do we do with those who are hard working, honest and no criminal record? Hell, how many americans can boast of that?

Ah,......deport them like our govt *should* have been doing all along.
When did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become, "optional?"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 33

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:10:54 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

honest

LMAO

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:41:49 PM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

Hey DeviantD, I agree with most of what you've said. I don't think any group should have advantage in entering, and staying, without going through at least a little of the hassle most go through, in order to gain the green card, than citizenship.

I have to say, I absolutely disagree with this:

quote:

I like Ireland's current stance: If a person is born in Ireland and neither of his/her parents are Irish citizens, he/she is "not entitled to Irish citizenship". I realize this approach will not be without problems, but I believe it would be enough of a deterrent to many of those young women who come to the USA illegally for the purpose of giving birth to a child who they know will be an American citizen.

I think anyone born in any country, should have the rights and priviledges of being a citizen of that country.

As most parents, are not going to leave their uhms, to return home, the uhms wouldn usually leave, and not return until they can travel alone. If once the uhms grow up, they want to petition for their parents, than have at it.

quote:

Income taxes? Most would make little enough to get a refund. That they dont get back. so they are actually paying more into the system than they legally should.

Tazzy, if someone knows they aren't going to file income taxes, all they have to do is claim 20 dependents, and pay nearly zero in income taxes.

quote:

popeye1250
Tazzy, would you feel differantly about an illegal alien who's only been here for three days?

I would feel differently, if someone entered illegally, 3 days ago, yes. It's much more problematic, when people have been here, worked hard to feed their families, and raised uhms here to adulthood, without abusing the systme, that the return them all, becomes problematic to most.

A small sidetrack of this is, families enter legally with their uhms, but working hard (2 jobs) to attain "the American Dream," while in the meantime, thinking their uhms are attending school regularly, not becoming friends with criminal types. However, what happens are good parents, with uhms that have now met, and run with the wrong types. Family can stay, but umhs who are legal, get deported to a country that can no longer deal with his/her habits or crime level. If illegals ought to be deported, the legals, who grew up here, ought to remain here.

Thanks Popeye, lockedaway, mnottertail, VirginPotty, Willbeurdaddy for your contributions. M

< Message edited by SexyBossyBBW -- 5/12/2011 1:45:17 PM >

_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 35

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 1:58:17 PM

Mezrem

Posts: 311
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline

The moment they became a potential voting block

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pops, I never said it should be allowed. But, what do we do with those who are hard working, honest and no criminal record? Hell, how many americans can boast of that?

Ah,......deport them like our govt *should* have been doing all along.
When did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become, "optional?"

_____________________________

Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.

~Storm Jameson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 36

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 2:02:28 PM

Mezrem

Posts: 311
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline

The very fact that they are here without permission makes them a criminal though. It is a catch 22 with that part. I don't blame them for coming here to find a better life.. but do it legal like my family had to a few generations ago.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

It's much more problematic, when people have been here, worked hard to feed their families, and raised uhms here to adulthood, without abusing the systme, that the return them all, becomes problematic to most.

_____________________________

Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.

~Storm Jameson

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)

Post #: 37

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 2:07:49 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The solution is enormously simple, incarcerate and fine the shit out of the employers.

this

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 38

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 2:30:52 PM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mezrem
The moment they became a potential voting block

I agree, that it was never an immediate issue, until the economy tanked, unemployment spiked, and they showed up as game changers, in elections.

quote:

I don't blame them for coming here to find a better life.. but do it legal like my family had to a few generations ago.

I don't blame them either, to some extent. I guess when it comes to mere survival, legality becomes a secondary consideration. The people who walk, and sometimes die in the desert, have to be desperate for a means of survival.

Fining employers of illegals, would definitely have an impact... I would just hope the impact isn't continuing to move jobs out of the country. M

_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to Mezrem)

Post #: 39

RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/12/2011 3:36:12 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The solution is enormously simple, incarcerate and fine the shit out of the employers.

this

That and close the damn border.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 40

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