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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 7:50:06 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Exactly.

I remember, in the winter of 1978/79, shoveling snow for people just so that I could pay my rent. My husband and I would grab our shovels and walk up and down the streets, stopping at houses that the sidewalks and driveways were not yet cleared, going to the door and asking. At the time I was quite pregnant. That summer, we got contracts to de-tassle fields of corn and roge bean fields. All to avoid welfare. Jobs were very scarce at that time but we managed through ingenuity.

Now my kids are the same way. It is the values I was raised with and passed on to my kids. Lazy is not an option. No one OWES you anything. Get off your ass and earn it is my mantra. If whatever I'm presently doing isn't working, then there is always a plan B. If I couldn't find a job, I made a job.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 81

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:00:28 AM

Marc2b

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Here we go with another case of “let’s declare something a right and that will make the problem magically disappear!” Good lord. The notion that employment should be a right is even more dangerous than the notion of health care being a right. It has no basis in workable reality. Sure, I’d love for everyone to be gainfully employed but reality doesn’t work that way. I can run off of a rooftop, flapping my arms and screaming “It’s my right to fly!” But I’m still going to go splat! I think that people who think that a job should be a right (besides giving themselves an ego stroke off over how wonderfully caring they are) fail to understand how a job comes into existence.

To those who believe that a job is a right: I am part owner/operator of a gift shop. We have three full time employees and two part time employees. If some one comes in and says, “I need a job,” does that mean we are obligated to give them one? This, despite the fact that we:

A) do not need any more employees at the current time or

B) could not afford anymore employees?

If I have to give them a job (it’s their “right” after all) and end up going out of business because we don’t have the money to pay them… how are they (or the current employees) helped?

Another question: If we do need another employee and we are obligated to hire the first person who applies (as some people around here seem to think is “fair”), what happens if (for whatever reason) that person is unsuited to the job? If we end up going out of business because we are paying out more money for no return (from the unproductive employee), how then is that employee (or our other employees or us) helped? I think screwing with the lives of several people just so someone else can sit on their couch and say to themselves, “I’m a good person because I’m against discrimination,” is too high a price to pay. I see no logical nor moral reason why I or anyone else should be sacrificed for someone else’s ego.

If you want to help people on a national level the best thing we can do is get more money into the private sector (or, rather, stop taking so much from it… yes folks, I’m talking about… cue the ominous music… TAX CUTS!) so that the demand for product and services goes up… resulting in the expansion of current businesses and the creation of new ones to meet that demand. Phony baloney government programs don’t do a god damned thing except help politicians get re-elected because it shows that they “care.” Exactly how spending other people’s money and trampling on their actual rights in order to benefit themselves makes someone caring is beyond me… but, apparently for some people, it is gospel.

If you want to help those who are suffering in this current economy the best thing you can do is get involved in the local level. Donate or volunteer at the local food pantry or clothes closet. Don’t have one? Start one! Do you have a useful skill? Consider offering free lessons to people. Of course the best thing you could do is create jobs by starting your own business but if you go that route, be prepared… you will have to jump through innumerable government regulatory hoops and even if you succeed there will be whole groups of people out there who will automatically hate you because you are now one of the “rich.” Which in their minds will also mean that you are greedy, discriminatory (“how dare you not hire that drug addict!”) and uncaring.

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Post #: 82

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:09:03 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The worst thing about the long term unemployed is their demographic...

They are often men over the age of 50, which means they are not eligible for social security, a little old to be training for a new career, and are often the victim of age discrimination. MickyDs isn't going to hire these men. They are often over qualified for any sort of joe-job that they try for, and there is usually some young hungry person who they are going against to land these jobs.

For many of these men, it means living off the savings they had for their retirement and selling off assets, leaving them with little for when they actually DO reach old age they will not be able to retire because they used it all up.

Uhhhhh..............where exactly did you find all this fascinating information?

I have heard it on news reports, places like Rachel Maddow....I am not going to post the stats of the city I am living in because it is not a very large one.

You know, not every bit of information comes from the internet and has a link

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(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 83

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:09:26 AM

tazzygirl

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Their point is only Conservatives know how to swim.... lol

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Post #: 84

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:11:37 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pft.... lol.... Im hardly conservative, Sanity. Im just an overall moderate... something both sides hate.

The two parties hate anything that is not of them....

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Post #: 85

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:14:05 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, it is a wholly stupid and absolutely pointless metaphor.

As many leftist children have gone swimming as rightist children joined the Hitler Jungend, have done it in droves, they did.

Thanks for the morning laugh

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 86

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:15:32 AM

tazzygirl

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My first waitressing job... and something I can always fall back on... was obtained by being honest. I told the owner... look, I have no experience, but I am a fast learner and a hard working employee. Give me a week. If at the end of that week I don't cut it, you can fire me and hire someone else.

He gave me a chance and I worked for him for 5 years.

There is always something someone can do if they are willing to put themselves out there.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 87

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:16:52 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

What to do about those that are unemployed. That is too complex an issue. Here in the U.S. the collective we, seems to want our cake and eat it too. We want all of the benefits of a democratic, capitalistic society when it is in our best interest BUT, when we are suffering, we want a more socialistic/communist government with regards to making sure everyone has a fair shake.

You are right, we should let the surplus population starve, and then there would be more food, housing, and jobs for the strong to enjoy

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 88

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:26:35 AM

EternalHoH

Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline

I don't think employment is a right either

But I do think the current jobs landscape is skewed, and is not providing the job base it should be. The whole tax policy/job creator class/stimulus/job creation incentives/global competition thing is totally corrupt. Global competition has allowed the job creator class to fire people over the lamest reasons, and they are pocketing incentives and NOT PERFORMING, in the biggest corporate welfare manner there is, when tax cuts/stimulus dollars are in play.

Pretty soon, the wrong kind of anarchy is going to come calling.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 89

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:32:32 AM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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~FR

Here is the kicker. I own little... and at this time, I'm glad I dont. Why? Because I wont lose much. Its those with high paying jobs who felt the need to buy everything to catch up with the Jones... its those with great insurance who lose when the insurance company drops them after a diagnosis of cancer... its those who lose their homes after the medical bills pile up, or the mortgage isn't paid, or the car note is behind.... those are the ones who are worrying.

Me? eh... I take the bus, I use the ER when absolutely necessary, I pay what I can, and I don't worry about the rest.

For millions of people like me.... we don't worry so much anymore. Cant get blood out of a turnip.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 90

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:45:55 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That if liberals knew how to "swim" theyd fucking do it instead of waiting for someone to guarantee them a life preserver.

What utter total bollocks you spout

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Post #: 91

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:48:36 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

If it pisses off the far left and it pisses off the far right...

It has to be pretty much right on target

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, it is a wholly stupid and absolutely pointless metaphor.

As many leftist children have gone swimming as rightist children joined the Hitler Jungend, have done it in droves, they did.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 92

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 8:56:35 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My first waitressing job... and something I can always fall back on... was obtained by being honest. I told the owner... look, I have no experience, but I am a fast learner and a hard working employee. Give me a week. If at the end of that week I don't cut it, you can fire me and hire someone else.

He gave me a chance and I worked for him for 5 years.

There is always something someone can do if they are willing to put themselves out there.

Ohhh waitress work! It was my very first 'real' job, when I was 13. I worked for them until the summer I was 16. It is a great way to make money. When I wanted to buy a house and my 8-5 job didn't allow me to save for that down payment required on a 30 year, fixed rate loan, I worked 4-5 nights a week for a swanky restaurant, for several years. Many weeks I made more at that job, than I did the regular 8-5 one.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/18/2011 8:57:20 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 93

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 9:01:46 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

The government is responsible for many cases of unemployment and underemployment in the US because of free trade agreements. Any government allowing companies to outsource jobs should provide new jobs for those citizens with the same salary. When a business knowingly destroys the economy of their home country to maximize profits, I call that treason. To me, that's what outsourcing is.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

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(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 94

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 9:19:18 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My first waitressing job... and something I can always fall back on... was obtained by being honest. I told the owner... look, I have no experience, but I am a fast learner and a hard working employee. Give me a week. If at the end of that week I don't cut it, you can fire me and hire someone else.

He gave me a chance and I worked for him for 5 years.

There is always something someone can do if they are willing to put themselves out there.

Ohhh waitress work! It was my very first 'real' job, when I was 13. I worked for them until the summer I was 16. It is a great way to make money. When I wanted to buy a house and my 8-5 job didn't allow me to save for that down payment required on a 30 year, fixed rate loan, I worked 4-5 nights a week for a swanky restaurant, for several years. Many weeks I made more at that job, than I did the regular 8-5 one.

My first job was washing dishes at a restaurant... I was 14.

It was followed by bus girl work... I was 16

I made it to waitress when I was 20.... did other things in between (selling shoes, working in a computer game factory...etc etc etc)

I waited tables for a decade.

Recently, my mom told me that out of all four of her kids I was the one that started working a real job at the youngest age, and the least proud of what work I was willing to do... even working at a Christmas tree farm with drug addicts and carnies when I was laid off one winter.

I say this as a person who worked her entire life to merit any shot I got at something better, it really is okay to have help once in a while... in the case of unemployment, many people pay into that insurance just in case they lose their jobs. I see no shame in collecting it.

As far as having the right to work.... look at Japan, they seemingly believe people have the right to a job there, and they work pretty damn long and hard anyways

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 95

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 10:45:34 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

FR -

quote:

Students consider prostitution to pay for school?

BERLIN (Reuters) – One in three university students in the German capital would consider sex work as a means to finance their education, a study from the Berlin Studies Center said on Wednesday. The figure in Berlin, where prostitution is legal, was higher than students surveyed in Paris (29.2 percent) and in Kiev (18.5 percent), the three cities the report looked at.

The study found some 4 percent of the 3,200 Berlin students surveyed said they had already done some form of sex work, which includes prostitution, erotic dancing and Internet shows.

The results surprised the study's authors, who said they undertook the study because student prostitution had been often reported but little was known about its relationship to education policy. "The main motivation of students to turn to prostitution were the financial incentives, namely the high hourly wages," Eva Blumenschein, one of the study's authors and a 26-year-old student at Berlin's Humboldt University, told Reuters.

Full article at http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110518/od_nm/us_prostitution

< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/18/2011 10:46:01 AM >

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Post #: 96

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 10:51:07 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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Good find Tom. It doesn't surprise me in the least. There are pay cam sites galore full of college girls making an extra buck.

It seems that the premise that sex work is an acceptable way to make ends meet is a little more widespread than some on here would like to admit.

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Post #: 97

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 10:54:52 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

lol sure you turn to illegal activities because they you can get arrested and the State will be responsible for you while you are in jail. So on some level you do believe in governmental programs, you are just picking and choosing which ones. You choose the program that takes away your rights instead of programs that will allow you freedom in your life to change your circumstances.

But hey, at least as a criminal you will be keeping governmental employees in jobs.

angel

A few years ago, someone told me prisoners get free college and when they're released have an easier time getting jobs than law abiding citizens because companies get bonuses or tax breaks for hiring them. I don't know if that's true or not. Just what someone told me.

Well I know the part about tax breaks is true. Not sure if someone would be willing to go to jail in order to take advantage of that, but I suppose they might.

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Post #: 98

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 11:03:45 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Exactly.

I remember, in the winter of 1978/79, shoveling snow for people just so that I could pay my rent. My husband and I would grab our shovels and walk up and down the streets, stopping at houses that the sidewalks and driveways were not yet cleared, going to the door and asking. At the time I was quite pregnant. That summer, we got contracts to de-tassle fields of corn and roge bean fields. All to avoid welfare. Jobs were very scarce at that time but we managed through ingenuity.

Now my kids are the same way. It is the values I was raised with and passed on to my kids. Lazy is not an option. No one OWES you anything. Get off your ass and earn it is my mantra. If whatever I'm presently doing isn't working, then there is always a plan B. If I couldn't find a job, I made a job.

Totally off topic, but I have to ask. How old were you when you got married?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 99

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 11:43:01 AM

ModeratorSix

Posts: 27
Joined: 3/20/2010
Status: offline

To those bringing more heat than light to the issue:

Behave, or begone.

M6

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 100

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