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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 11:53:42 AM

mynxkat

Posts: 240
Joined: 5/7/2011
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Far as it goes, no, I don't believe people have a 'right' to really much of anything. All the so called 'rights' people have are pretty fictions made up by other people.

When it comes to employment, there IS a problem. I'm nearly 40 and unemployed. This is not because of any laziness or unwillingness on my part. I'd be more than happy to flip burgers at McD's, but I'm too old. McD's wants to employ high school kids. Pretty much ANY fast food place employs very nearly exclusively high school kids (with a few, a VERY few exceptions and those tend to be the managers). So, there's an entire branch of businesses that I'd be more than willing to work for, and in fact apply at every month or so that won't hire me because I'm too old.

There are entire branches of industry that I'm not qualified to work for. I'm not a health care anything, nor an accountant, or construction engineer... the list goes on. I'm perfectly willing and even able to learn these things, but since I've not spent 3 or 4 or 5 years getting a magical piece of paper saying I'm an expert, they aren't willing to teach me. And since I can't find a job, I can't afford to go to school to GET that magical piece of paper so they'd give me a job.... And for those that want to talk about scholorships and grants and all... I'm unmarried, no children, and caucasian. That pretty much shuts 90% or more of the possible doors in my face. Maybe I ought to dye my skin and hair and try to pass as African American.

Now, for the fields I am qualified for (quite a few things, in fact, I've led a rather eclectic life), again, I apply for every position I even SUSPECT is available or that will be available soon. Here again, though, my age is against me. That, and I've been out of work for nearly a year. There must be something wrong with me if no one has hired me in almost a year!

For the few truly 'unskilled' fields of employment... just TRY getting employed in one of those if you don't have swarthy skin and speak Mexican fluently...

So, while I don't feel that anyone has the 'right' to work, I do feel that we (Americans I mean) need to take a good close look at our industry infrastructure and do some MAJOR repairs on it, maybe even scrap the whole thing and start from scratch, because right now it's broken.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

Post #: 101

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 11:57:04 AM

PetiteOralSub

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/21/2010
Status: offline

Im unemployed, and have been for some time now.

Employemnt is not a right in democratic capitalist societies, it is however in totalinarian communist societies.

I believe strongly in democracy and capitalism.
and I'm conservative fiscally.

despite being unemployed and not on the dole and ineligible for aid of any kind because I am not a minority,
I still do not dream of a socialist totality running the country that I have pledged my life, loyalty and liberty to several times and will continue to do so.

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respectfully

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Post #: 102

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:00:19 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

So, while I don't feel that anyone has the 'right' to work, I do feel that we (Americans I mean) need to take a good close look at our industry infrastructure and do some MAJOR repairs on it, maybe even scrap the whole thing and start from scratch, because right now it's broken.

I agree totally mynxkat.

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Post #: 103

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:01:19 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetiteOralSub

Im unemployed, and have been for some time now.

Employemnt is not a right in democratic capitalist societies, it is however in totalinarian communist societies.

I believe strongly in democracy and capitalism.
and I'm conservative fiscally.

despite being unemployed and not on the dole and ineligible for aid of any kind because I am not a minority,
I still do not dream of a socialist totality running the country that I have pledged my life, loyalty and liberty to several times and will continue to do so.

Welllllllllllll...................not entirely so, Castro just laid off a whole truckload of folks.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to PetiteOralSub)

Post #: 104

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:01:31 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mynxkat

Far as it goes, no, I don't believe people have a 'right' to really much of anything. All the so called 'rights' people have are pretty fictions made up by other people.

When it comes to employment, there IS a problem. I'm nearly 40 and unemployed. This is not because of any laziness or unwillingness on my part. I'd be more than happy to flip burgers at McD's, but I'm too old. McD's wants to employ high school kids. Pretty much ANY fast food place employs very nearly exclusively high school kids (with a few, a VERY few exceptions and those tend to be the managers). So, there's an entire branch of businesses that I'd be more than willing to work for, and in fact apply at every month or so that won't hire me because I'm too old.

There are entire branches of industry that I'm not qualified to work for. I'm not a health care anything, nor an accountant, or construction engineer... the list goes on. I'm perfectly willing and even able to learn these things, but since I've not spent 3 or 4 or 5 years getting a magical piece of paper saying I'm an expert, they aren't willing to teach me. And since I can't find a job, I can't afford to go to school to GET that magical piece of paper so they'd give me a job.... And for those that want to talk about scholorships and grants and all... I'm unmarried, no children, and caucasian. That pretty much shuts 90% or more of the possible doors in my face. Maybe I ought to dye my skin and hair and try to pass as African American.

Now, for the fields I am qualified for (quite a few things, in fact, I've led a rather eclectic life), again, I apply for every position I even SUSPECT is available or that will be available soon. Here again, though, my age is against me. That, and I've been out of work for nearly a year. There must be something wrong with me if no one has hired me in almost a year!

For the few truly 'unskilled' fields of employment... just TRY getting employed in one of those if you don't have swarthy skin and speak Mexican fluently...

So, while I don't feel that anyone has the 'right' to work, I do feel that we (Americans I mean) need to take a good close look at our industry infrastructure and do some MAJOR repairs on it, maybe even scrap the whole thing and start from scratch, because right now it's broken.

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this. McD's...now maybe Nevada is different, but here in Michigan the fast food places hire older workers. In fact the one manager I talked to, said he preferred them because they are more reliable.

As to the grants and such. I am 51, white, single no kids. I had no problem getting financial aid. In fact the Michigan Works office had a program for unemployed people to start off in a new career. Now it will take me a couple of years to get there, I am hopeful it will help me get a better job. Didn't have to change my skin color or anything.

I am going to ignore the last bit because I am pretty sure the white people in your area are able to get jobs. But it shows your mind, so I am glad you added it.

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(in reply to mynxkat)

Post #: 105

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:06:57 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Exactly.

I remember, in the winter of 1978/79, shoveling snow for people just so that I could pay my rent. My husband and I would grab our shovels and walk up and down the streets, stopping at houses that the sidewalks and driveways were not yet cleared, going to the door and asking. At the time I was quite pregnant. That summer, we got contracts to de-tassle fields of corn and roge bean fields. All to avoid welfare. Jobs were very scarce at that time but we managed through ingenuity.

Now my kids are the same way. It is the values I was raised with and passed on to my kids. Lazy is not an option. No one OWES you anything. Get off your ass and earn it is my mantra. If whatever I'm presently doing isn't working, then there is always a plan B. If I couldn't find a job, I made a job.

Totally off topic, but I have to ask. How old were you when you got married?

Sixteen. And my son was born just a few days after my seventeenth birthday.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 106

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:08:50 PM

mynxkat

Posts: 240
Joined: 5/7/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mynxkat

For the few truly 'unskilled' fields of employment... just TRY getting employed in one of those if you don't have swarthy skin and speak Mexican fluently...

I am going to ignore the last bit because I am pretty sure the white people in your area are able to get jobs. But it shows your mind, so I am glad you added it.

I assume your comment refers to that bit of mine above it. It's got nothing to do with how I think or feel, it's just an observation of mine. I've lived most of my life in what are considered the southern states, that probably has quite a bit to do with it, as down here, illegal immigrants are the laborer of choice for a lot of industries. Warehouse workers, harvesters, dishwashers, and the like. The stuff that is frequently tagged as 'unskilled labor'. And I've never ONCE witnessed a white or even a black person employed in one of these capacities. Always mexicans. Ok, I'll grant that I have no way of knowing if they're illegals or not, and it's an assumption on my part that they are. But it's an assumption based, again, on reality, since a HUGE proportion of Mexican people in the U.S. ARE here illegally. And that's a big part of what's broken our industry infrastructure and thus, our economy.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 107

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:17:30 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Exactly.

I remember, in the winter of 1978/79, shoveling snow for people just so that I could pay my rent. My husband and I would grab our shovels and walk up and down the streets, stopping at houses that the sidewalks and driveways were not yet cleared, going to the door and asking. At the time I was quite pregnant. That summer, we got contracts to de-tassle fields of corn and roge bean fields. All to avoid welfare. Jobs were very scarce at that time but we managed through ingenuity.

Now my kids are the same way. It is the values I was raised with and passed on to my kids. Lazy is not an option. No one OWES you anything. Get off your ass and earn it is my mantra. If whatever I'm presently doing isn't working, then there is always a plan B. If I couldn't find a job, I made a job.

Totally off topic, but I have to ask. How old were you when you got married?

Sixteen. And my son was born just a few days after my seventeenth birthday.

It sounds like you had your head together then. My mom wouldn't let me work in high school. Not that I minded, but she didn't think I was going to graduate as it was.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 108

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:23:45 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It sounds like you had your head together then. My mom wouldn't let me work in high school. Not that I minded, but she didn't think I was going to graduate as it was.

Not really. But I had no choice. It was either get it together or become a victim to statistics. I won't bore anyone here with the details, but suffice to say I am 100% certain that most of the people that knew me then would never have imagined I would be where I am now, in my life.

I have been accused of forgetting where I come from. Anyone that believes that does not know me at all.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 109

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:24:06 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

~FR

Now, to sum things up, and get this back on track, employment isnt a right. In order for it to be a right, you would have to force others to give you employment. However, I do see many programs the government supports, and some it evens funds, that could be cut out to give those who have no means of support a better chance.

Worksforme is a program in PA that pays employers to hire disabled employees who are on disability and SS. Now, its a good program. But, if the government didnt pay employers to hire them, would they hire others who, in this economy, could really use a job and not just something to make themselves feel useful? Again, its not a bad thing to feel useful. But, they are still getting their full benefits while getting a job that the government pays part of their income.

Just seems wrong to me when unemployment is this high.

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Post #: 110

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:48:30 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The government is responsible for many cases of unemployment and underemployment in the US because of free trade agreements.

I see. What exactly is the impact on consumers of those free trade agreements? Lower prices for goods of a quality that is acceptable to them.

And what happens if a consumer pays more for those goods because there was no FTA? He has less money to spend on other things, and other companies become less profitable and layoff their employees.

Its very simple. Free Trade Agreements dont cost jobs, legislation and regulation that makes foreign producers cheaper, despite the transportation/communication and relocation expenses, is what costs jobs.

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 12:49:59 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

and layoffs in china and korea are of concern to us at this moment ; ; ; ; WHY?

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Post #: 112

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 3:48:10 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Employment is not a right in this country. Should it be? In my opinion, yes. Job creation is not all that difficult, there are plenty of things for people to do.

During the Great Depression, FDR created the WPA (Work Projects Admin.) and the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corp). They built things still in use today, like Hoover Dam, along with numerous local public works projects, they also built basic park and national forest infrastructure. The huge rocks along Lake Michigan were a WPA project.

There are many things to be done in this country, infrastructure wise, along with many people, old and young and sick, who need care. Making a job for anyone who wanted one really would be a matter of our government realizing the necessity to do so.

(BTW: Most alcoholics and drug addicts don't want to be that way, it's a health problem, not a legal one. )

I would love to be the one in charge of overhaulling our penal system. I, too, am pissed off about having to support the violent offenders and the white color scofflaws while actual poor and needy people in this country are hungry. There are many people in prison who do not need to be. Anyone who can be let out to do community service should be. Thieves should have to work to pay their victims back. Only the violent should be incarcerated, and I would tend more towards a boot camp atmosphere where inmates would learn to go along with the program or spend their days in solitary confinement.

There are many social services in their country that seriously need rethought, IMO. And I am not talking about giving handouts to anyone and everyone, but programs should be in place to help people who need it. Right now we have a patch work of services stretched very thin.

Of course, we have to spend billions on war so the fat cats can make money off it.

I'll get off my soap box now.

_____________________________

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Post #: 113

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 3:51:02 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather
why do you feel obliged to help people all over the world?

i am a probably a piss poor example of citizenship. It's been a while since i did anything to financially help someone in need, aside from whatever portion of my taxes is used for that purpose. But, for the record, when i vote, i always vote for the tax increase that helps others. Not much, i know. The reason the government should take money from me to help people is because i don't have the discipline to do it myself, and i think it needs to be done.

There's a big difference between thinking that we *should* be obliged to help others, and actually doing it. But yes, i think that we should be obliged (for the moment, conveniently skirting around the issues of *how* and *how much*). The reason is because certain people are in a position where they can't help themselves, and i am in a position where i have much more than i need, and it seems only right when my candy bar or movie ticket could save someone's life, or something.

What do you mean by being obliged to help people all over the world? Sending money to AIDS victims in Africa? Adopting an orphan? Volunteering at a shelter for battered women? Giving canned goods? i admit it, i don't do any of those things. That's why i want the government to do it for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather
why is it your responsibility or mine to insure they survive?

(Imagine me getting up on a soapbox...) Because we are human and one of the defining characteristics of human nature is empathy.

pam

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 4:44:51 PM

OrionTheWolf

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It is an obligation of a free society to allow the environment for all citizens that abide by social contract, to have the means to provide, and sustain their lives.

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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 4:49:32 PM

SilverMark

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I've got the answer...we can lower taxes, cut school funding, and pay no attention to environmental laws and allow for more growth.....oops...sorry, I was channeling my inner Rick Scott...

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RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 5:01:46 PM

EternalHoH

Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetiteOralSub

Im unemployed, and have been for some time now.

Employemnt is not a right in democratic capitalist societies, it is however in totalinarian communist societies.

I believe strongly in democracy and capitalism.
and I'm conservative fiscally.

despite being unemployed and not on the dole and ineligible for aid of any kind because I am not a minority,
I still do not dream of a socialist totality running the country that I have pledged my life, loyalty and liberty to several times and will continue to do so.

Who is paying your bills right now, being that you are unemployed, not on the dole and ineligible for aid?

I have news for you. Your beloved capitalism is pissing on you right now just as much as your hated socialist alternatives. You just haven't noticed it yet, because you are too busy raising the flag every morning at 6 am.

(in reply to PetiteOralSub)

Post #: 117

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 5:09:43 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Should employment be a "right" for all American citizens that want to work?

i recently found a job in my industry. Before that, i was playing Mr. Potato Head and Mickey Mouse at kids birthdays. i believe that most American citizens can find work if they really want to, though it may not be the kind of work that they want.

Should the government be responsible for making sure jobs are "created" somehow for everyone that wants to work and seeks employment?

Maybe. It would be easier to answer the question if you were proposing a specific plan.

With "real" unemployment around 15% what type government assistance beyond unemployment should be created or be available for the long term unemployed?

i don't know what programs are available now, because i've never been on unemployment. Last i heard there was a limit on how long a person could collect unemployment benefits. i think that time limit should be extended given the current economic situation.

Are we our brothers keeper?

A little bit yes, a little bit no.

If so, what should be done to help those that have been seeking employment for a long period of time, and have not secured employment in the United States?

i think the time frame for collecting unemployment benefits should be extended, given the economy.

My ex-husband was unemployment for about 8 months, and was not eligible for any assistance beyond unemployment, because he did not have any minor dependents.

He was seriously in dire straits, because he could not find any program that could assist him, unless he had dependents, was disabled or elderly.

If he wasn't homeless or starving, then in my opinion he wasn't in as dire of straits as he could have been. What do you mean by "dire straits?"

In this day of budget cutting, and trying to do more with less, what should we be doing to help the growing number of the LONG TERM unemployed and those seriously underemployed that are working part-time but seek full time employment?

i have said what i think should be done. What do you think should be done?

pam

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 118

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 5:24:55 PM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

It is an obligation of a free society to allow the environment for all citizens that abide by social contract, to have the means to provide, and sustain their lives.

"Well if it isn't who the fuck need's 'em?"

-- The Framers of the Constitution.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 119

RE: Is "employment" a right? What should be d... - 5/18/2011 5:44:44 PM

Louve00

Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I've got the answer...we can lower taxes, cut school funding, and pay no attention to environmental laws and allow for more growth.....oops...sorry, I was channeling my inner Rick Scott...

Just the mention of Rick Scott gets my attention these days. I hope (if you're a Floridian) you've been being pro-active and attending any one of the rallies against him. Fort Meyers held a rally against him holding up pink slip signs (to fire him lol) for cutting education spending (and in the state of fla, school budgets have been cut so severely that things like bands and most sports are a thing of the past, no longer does a school bus pick you up if you live 2 miles from school, some text books are shared!). There's been some in Miami rallying against his corporate tax breaks. And Daytona just held one over him spending too much time trying to restrict womens rights (he wants to make them view and sign a paper acknowledging they saw an ultrasound, before they abort it) and not enough time on creating jobs. His campaign slogan was "let's get back to work" and he hasn't created or tried to create one job yet. I could go on and on and on about Rick Scott's agenda's. He's literally done away with the coverflorida website that used to offer affordable insurance (put in place by Charlie Crist before Obama signed anything into law about health care) Voting this guy in was really a mistake. I've signed several petitions to recall him and attended one rally.....so far. He has turned my leeriness of tea party people into a true dislike of them. And while we're at it, our Fla congressman Marco Rubio just voted for the tax cuts on oil companies. My state representatives far from represent me! So I'm expressing myself as best I can to be pro-active. For me, its far better satisfaction than just casting a vote! And I'm thinking of joining the coffee party movement!! http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/mission-statement

*edited to add, sorry I went way off topic there. I blame it on Mark for mentioning the "evil one" lol.

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 5/18/2011 5:48:19 PM >

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Post #: 120

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