RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines

RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 9:45:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy What group of people claim a right to a land they never once governed? Americans !!!! Do I get a prize? Do you know what "Chosen people" refers to? (Obviously not given your attempt to use it in a negative light) It doesn't matter what the fairytale is. Your just insane about "killing everything in their path". What Torah are you reading? She would be in the Jeremiad, among others (with the quote she gave you). You know what a jeremiad is, trotsky?

juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 9:50:06 AM)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/god_cana.htm The above is a link to bibical references to Genocide. By your logic if the Native Americans ever find a group powerful enough to kick our ass out to support them, they can have this country back all to themselves. That is a fairly bad excuse for human rights abuses. I cannot stand bullies. I see Israel as a bully because my country armed them and gives them resources... some of which they use to grab land from people who mostly have rocks and suicide bombers. I am not intrinsically anti-Israel, but when I see families who have their entire world erased by bulldozers it tends to piss me off. I put myself in that situation, and I cannot imagine what that would feel like. I also cannot imagine how angry I would be if some people moved in next door, built up a community in what is supposed to be my country, and then suck the water out of the ground while I have to walk 1/2 a mile to get mine.... I mean, lets say the Mexicans came to California, started building houses on land that had nothing on it, started depleting the ground water in the area, and then shot my kids for throwing rocks.... yeah,. that might piss me off. At the same time, I know what it is to see my country people die in the worst terrorist act ever. I know how angry, fearful, and vengeful it is to watch innocent people from your own nation die... and I saw the irrationality that people approached our actions, like it justified torture and invading other countries, for example. Now, you can continue to blame one side, and get no where, or you can support a peace that may get you somewhere.... Ordinary people will never benefit from war... The choice isn't mine anyways, it is theirs... I just hope my country stops footing the bill for it.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 9:57:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And from that, which is my entire point, to try to get middle eastern neighbors to work it out becomes an issue of racism. So, do you hate Jews? Is that the thing? Why wouldn't you want to see them try for peace with their neighbors? The ad hominem circumstantial with you, which is where all this started is that you seem to think you have 'inconvienient facts' strewn about this arguement, but I have yet so see anything inconvienient and only one or two facts, that are deployed as non sequiturs to the issues at hand. And now you elide the point further. Rather than what needs to get done vis a vis Israel and Palestine, we are caught in racists calling people who are pointing out facts racist. So. do any of the 'inconvienient facts' deal with Israel vis a vis Palestine and their paths to a two state amenable and peaceful solution, or are you still going to convince me that a word coined in racism, having lost its glister by the great unwashed, no longer carries a connotation of racism? And if that is the case, can you differentiate that from n**r since there are those that who are not of that particular genetic tanning solution find the word inoffensive and not conveying racist undertones? Mnott sad to say I'm loosin' respec for U. You're playing a game deliberately trying to mix the issue up. How bout a bit of honesty, a bit of sincerity. Change ain't nuthing bad. Lemme try to tidy this shit up. You raise in the fact the guy who originally coined the term "anti-Semite" was a racist as if that has bearing on how the word is used today. No it fucking doesn't. Comparing it with the word "nier" is fucking sick. You suggest people today pretty much all think anti-semitism relates to all semites. No they fucking don't. You can ask bout peace if you feel da need but clearly you mix da two issues to confuse the point. I'm talking about a simple point of fact. The basic meaning of anti-Semitism and how it came to be that way. I'm sticking with the point as to the meaning of anti-semitism. Israel make peace? Sure I want to but only if the other guys do as well. Otherwse its fucking suicide. Lemme relay the Q back on you, would you want Jooz to make peace with a pop that continually supports terror? If you do are you also an anti-Semite? You are also negating to phenomenon of anti-semitism when it is rising. That is what it is, a phenomenon like racism but bit diff as Jooz 'control' everything etc. It's as if you want it struck off as a term cuze it may get in the way of "peace". You must also be negating it to deny there is an issue of race/culture/religion in the mid-east. Of course there fucking is. Save the tiresome logic terminology for your evening philosophy class. "ad hominem circumstantial" lol I pointed out facts on these threads and was called a racist by Julia. She repeated the very same claim here even though I explained it properly. That is also a fact. Feel free to review my posts to find "inconvenient facts" if you have nuthin' better to do!

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 10:05:04 AM)
Honestly and sincerely, the word is racist from racist beginnings. Ignorance is no excuse. Don't tell me what I think, you dont have the intelligence. Note tht your belligerence is not equivalent to intelligence. You haven't any facts in evidence, JOOBOY Inconvienient fact: Exactly you've decided already that your right so there is no frickin' point. This is a textbook example of ad hominem circumstantial.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 10:12:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Funny how Jules only cmentions extremists from one side so. although not in this quote here she still blames rael with "they aren't going to fall for the extremist line anymore" type sentiments. I think she even pretended extremists on the Pal side were just a few nutters when Pals in Gaza elected Hamas as their rules to continue strife with rael! I think desperate people do desperate things when they are pushed to the edge. I mean, we elected Bush for a second term out of desperation and fear. Same reason Israelis elect hardliners when they feel threatened. You know, that shit ain't an ethnic thing, it is a human thing... although I know you like to reduce people to their ethnic identity[8\|] More racist accusations. I referred to Arabs the same way as anyone else does, as one side in the conflict. It has nothing to do with reducing people to their ethnicity and plenty do this on forums. You have no shame. Again attackin anyone you disagree with. Thanks for provin da point I made here in the first place. More of your bias here darlin'. lsrael had just left Gaza as part of a planned roadmap to peace that would lead to leaving much of the West Bank too. It was a unilateral move as a gesture of good faith which which the palestinians welcomed, the UN applauded the butcher Sharon etc. What did the people do, elect the one team that could skupper peace. [8\|] quote: quote: don't find da topic fun either which is why i inject a bit of humour. It goes a long way toward diffusin' tension and helping civility. Maybe why you should try it sometime... Sorry dude, I don't find racial epithets to be conducive to less tension, they only add to it. More of the same. None are not racial epithets. 'rab is not a slur anymore than jooz is.

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 10:30:23 AM)
Personal attacks notwithstanding, you haven't gotten around to your facts yet. I understand you see it as not a racial word, I see it as one. This does not lead to me violating TOS as you have, it just makes you sad and pathetic. And my point still stands, black on black, is n****r racist? How can it be you say? What if I am pro-semite? You wouldn't know, you haven't bothered to figure that out. The notion that someone who would like to see Israel and Palestine resolve this in peaceable fashion is not racist. Those who see it as racist, and couching it as racists, are racists, they are all semites. Reduced as best I can to try to get that across to you, due your lack of comprehension. I doubt it will meet with success. And I don't understand what possible cavil you could have with JOOBOY, 'RABDUDE.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 10:56:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Personal attacks notwithstanding, you haven't gotten around to your facts yet. Personal attacks... [:D] you fucking attacked me and I responded. Get a grip man! I already provided one example of an "inconvenient fact" to disprove Julia's "opinion" re apartheid. She made numerous wild assertions You want more, I already told you look through the Israel threads if you have the time. Look up da "Netanyahu associate: Obama detached from reality" you lazy... [:D] quote: I understand you see it as not a racial word, I see it as one. This does not lead to me violating TOS as you have, it just makes you sad and pathetic. I have massive respec for da Toss. Reckon you toss a lot an' would never violate it? [:D] Don't know what "it" is so can't reply but nevermind. quote: And my point still stands, black on black, is n**r racist? How can it be you say? What if I am pro-semite? You wouldn't know, you haven't bothered to figure that out. Why would I bother - jus' goin by your words brother? Was Hitler a pro-Semite too since he was buds with da Grand Muff cuze he had no issue with most of dem? Ner isn't racist in some contexts. "Kke" could be the same between Jooz but this was a friendly chat bout the general usage. quote: The notion that someone who would like to see Israel and Palestine resolve this in peaceable fashion is not racist. Those who see it as racist are racists. So if dude X from Xville thinks the Pals is takin' up a big game and worries with some reason that it will only lead to much worse strife an' det for da Jooz that's anti-semitic? [8\|] quote: Reduced as best I can to try to get that across to you, due your lack of comprehension. Sorry bro but I can't be a comprehendin' what you want me to be a comprehendin'... can only cognistotise your words an' if thats insufficient I'll apologise with great profoundity, take the trouble to walk your dogs and service your wife. quote: I doubt it will meet with success. And I don't understand what possible cavil you could have with JOOBOY, 'RABDUDE. lol "cavil" - word of da day [:D] - little lesson since you is inta da educazion, "boy" is regarded as quite insulting. Doubt my words? Say it ta the next black guy you meet! [8\|]

juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:05:08 AM)
quote: Again attackin anyone you disagree with. There are many people on this forum that disagree with me, and I haven't said anything to them about being derogatory...That is not true... quote: More of your bias here darlin'. lsrael had just left Gaza as part of a planned roadmap to peace that would lead to leaving much of the West Bank too Most of my "problem" as you seem to put it is with the entire solutions that have been put in place... such as building a wall. It is a negative peace, and a negative is never a lasting peace. Both sides need to build bridges, not walls. I dislike militarism, I dislike collective punishments, I dislike suicide bombers, I dislike guns and shooting rock throwers. I dislike using fear for an advantage, and I strongly dislike governments that use their military to subjugate people. I dislike my own country doing the same, why am I only biased when i talk about Israel. like I said, I seriously find interchanges with you distasteful, not because of the disagreement, but you come off rude, and you throw around racial slurs as if you had the right to... it just repulses me.

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:08:30 AM)
It is not a friendly chat about general usage. You should read the thread, then, you are in a non sequitur of massive proportions, if that is your position. Check out trotsky et al here vis a vis their friendly chat with the general usage in mind. Ah, now you are going to instruct us further on your personal wisdom of the offensive quotient of common words by shoehorning them into a context that makes them offensive, all the while arguing that somehow anti-semetic is freindly general usage in this context? That isn't even backpeddling like a motherfucker, thats plain dissembling.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:14:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail It is not a friendly chat about general usage. You should read the thread, then, you are in a non sequitur of massive proportions, if that is your position. Check out trotsky et al here vis a vis their friendly chat with the general usage in mind. Ah, now you are going to instruct us further on your personal wisdom of the offensive quotient of common words by shoehorning them into a context that makes them offensive, all the while arguing that somehow anti-semetic is freindly general usage in this context? That isn't even backpeddling like a motherfucker, thats plain dissembling. Giz a kiss!

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:19:00 AM)
In context it would be : Gi' uuuus a wee ......

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:42:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Again attackin anyone you disagree with. There are many people on this forum that disagree with me, and I haven't said anything to them about being derogatory...That is not true... Indeed there are. It was a generalisation from what I read on the threads we contributed to, I like you a lot Joolz... really I do... but I don't stalk you. quote: quote: More of your bias here darlin'. lsrael had just left Gaza as part of a planned roadmap to peace that would lead to leaving much of the West Bank too Most of my "problem" as you seem to put it is with the entire solutions that have been put in place... such as building a wall. It is a negative peace, and a negative is never a lasting peace. Both sides need to build bridges, not walls. I dislike militarism, I dislike collective punishments, I dislike suicide bombers, I dislike guns and shooting rock throwers. I dislike using fear for an advantage, and I strongly dislike governments that use their military to subjugate people. I dislike my own country doing the same, why am I only biased when i talk about Israel. joolz if you stick a microscopic pin in a ameoba it will contract. I get why this issue upsets you but consider this. The "apartheid" wall ain't pretty but it more or less stopped the Second Intifada, saving hundreds of lives in the process. A solution? No but at least more people are breathing today. If the Pals use terror they reap the rewards, if they walk away from processes like 2008 with Olmert or Clinton in 2000 this is a big impediment but you blame Israel more, you called Israel "terrorists" on the other thread. Don't reduce it to stone throwing. By the way did anyone ever ask why kidz throw stones at armed soldiers that supposedly have genocide in mind? What bout all the incitement of hatred in Pally culture? Try looking at the root causes if you ever question your views seriously. Never said you weren't only biased with Israel but sadly we got into an ugly debate on this issue. quote: like I said, I seriously find interchanges with you distasteful, not because of the disagreement, but you come off rude, and you throw around racial slurs as if you had the right to... it just repulses me. At least we have something in common! I think you got angry cause we disagreed. I got rude after you did with claims I was lying or at least deliberately misleading folks. I have not thrown round racial slurs, 'rabs and jooz are not established slurs. A-robs and many other terms as I saw on other forums are. If the mods don't like the wording I will stop! [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail In context it would be : Gi' uuuus a wee ...... Ah cryptology, the last resort of the b... [:D]

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 11:51:27 AM)
To all the folks on here... this personal fighting is probably upsetting some people interested in the topic so I'll leave it at that [:D] and say to ya all: [image]http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/cleanplatecharlie/L%27Chaim%20kosher%20vodka.jpg[/image]

Moonhead -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:03:13 PM)
How can vodka be non kosher? There's no pork, black pudding or shellfish in there...

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:08:49 PM)
Have no idea myself. [8\|] Maybe one of our Jewish friends could advise these ignorant folks? least its reassuring devout Jews can have a booz up, always thought that was a problem with Islam...

Moonhead -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:29:56 PM)
There's plenty of thirsty jews. I've met quite a few in my time. The whole wine blessing thing is a bit of a tip about that one. (I think it's a pun on "lochaim", which is the yiddish equivalent of "cheers"...)

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead There's plenty of thirsty jews. I've met quite a few in my time. The whole wine blessing thing is a bit of a tip about that one. (I think it's a pun on "lochaim", which is the yiddish equivalent of "cheers"...) Yeah, cheers, good health, to life, something like that I think. Interesting thing I heard that Islam never spread north of the Caucasus cause Russians relied on voddy to get throu the winters. Dunno if there's any truth in it but I like it.

Moonhead -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:38:27 PM)
I fear that one might be bullshit: there's rarely been any shortage of muslims in eastern Europe, and tea's historically a big deal in Russia as well.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 12:49:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I fear that one might be bullshit: there's rarely been any shortage of muslims in eastern Europe, and tea's historically a big deal in Russia as well. Probably is tho I thought the Balkans are quite southerly...

Moonhead -> RE: Obama Backs Deal Based on 1967 Lines (5/23/2011 1:03:01 PM)
Russia's a huge country. Fills a pretty big chunk of Eurasia, even without the borders being expanded with vassal states.

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