RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill

RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:11:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper It's fucked up and wrongful legislative behavior. Hey this is the way it has ALWAYS been brutha! they tossed out the jeffersons manual of parlimentary rules with the constitution long ago!

Real0ne -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:17:32 PM)
well guess what? I am in wisonsin and its not about exclusion or poll taxes, its about no regulation on who can vote. you can get in your car and drive from county to county register under a fake name because nothing it mandated to be shown for ID. Your mother from kenya can come in and vote here several times if she wanted too. thats what its about. The problem is the people are not part of government. If they really were this kind of crap would not be happening.

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:28:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne you can get in your car and drive from county to county register under a fake name because nothing it mandated to be shown for ID. Im confused... isnt this the registration laws in Wisconsin? As of January 1, 2006, all municipalities in Wisconsin require voter registration prior to a person being allowed to vote. The federal "Help American Vote Act of 2002" requires any person registering to vote to supply his or her Wisconsin Department of Transportation-issued driver's license number. Electors who have not been issued a Wisconsin driver's license must provide the last four digits of their Social Security Number OR their Wisconsin state ID card number. If the elector does not have a current, valid Wisconsin driver’s license, Wisconsin state ID card, or Social Security Number, the applicant may indicate this by filling in the appropriate circle on the registration form. (Box 2 on GAB-131) http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting THE REGISTRATION CANNOT BE PROCESSED UNTIL THE ELECTOR PROVIDES THIS INFORMATION. If the voter has a current, valid Wisconsin driver’s license but does not know the number and did not bring it to the polling place, poll workers should allow the voter to vote by provisional ballot. (Note: the voter CANNOT use the last 4 digits of their Social Security Number if he or she has been issued a Wisconsin driver’s license). The provisional ballot will not be counted until the voter either: a) brings his or her driver license number to his or her polling place before the polls close at 8:00 pm on Election Day; or b) transmits (via fax, email, telephone call or personal visit) his or her driver’s license number to the municipal clerk before 4:00 pm on the day after the Election. Anyone wishing to vote in the state of Wisconsin has three options to register: 1. BY MAIL: Download the Application for Voter Registration (GAB-131), complete the form and mail it into the municipal clerk's office. Find your Wisconsin Municipal Clerk here. The application must be postmarked no later than the 20th day (3rd Wednesday) before the election. (For the Spring Primary, that date is Wednesday, January 26, 2011, and for the Spring Election that date is Wednesday, March 16, 2011.) PLEASE NOTE: State and federal law now requires that any first-time voter submitting a registration application by mail provide a copy of an acceptable identifying document that provides proof of residence. (A “first-time voter” is an individual who has not voted in an election in Wisconsin.) Acceptable forms of proof of residence are outlined below. Please note that first-time voters registering by mail may not use a residential lease as proof of residence. The copy of the form of proof of residence must be included when submitting the registration application. If a copy of proof of residence is not included, the elector will be required to supply it before being issued a ballot at the polling place or before being issued an absentee ballot in the municipal clerk’s office. 2. IN PERSON: Register in the municipal clerk's office up to 5:00 PM or the close of business whichever is later on the day before the election. (For the Spring Primary, that date is Monday, February 14, 2011 and for the Spring Election that date is, Monday, April 4, 2011.) Note: After the BY MAIL deadline, an elector registering in person in the clerk's office is required to present acceptable proof of residence as outlined below. 3. AT THE POLLING PLACE ON ELECTION DAY: If you wish to register to vote at your polling place, you must bring proof that you have lived at your present location for at least 10 days preceding the election. For purposes of voter registration, acceptable forms of proof of residence must include: A current and complete name, including both the given and family name; and A current and complete residential address, including a numbered street address, if any, and the name of a municipality. **Forms with an expiration date must be valid on Election Day. PROOF OF RESIDENCE The following constitute acceptable Proof-of-Residence if the document contains the information specified above: A current and valid Wisconsin driver license. A current and valid Wisconsin identification card. Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit. Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card. A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election. A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail). A university, college or technical institute fee card (must include photo). A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo). A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day. Bank statement. Paycheck. A check or other document issued by a unit of government. http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting

TheCabal -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:31:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You can spew a bunch of innuendo but you still cannot put forth facts. Facts are what matter. There has never been a single case of vote fraud that could connected to ACORN. That is a fact. Alright, let's try this again: FACT: ACORN and its staff members have been convicted of creating fraudulent voter registrations in several places. FACT: ACORN operates in Philly. FACT: In 2000, there were several precincts in Philly where both voter registration, and voter turnout exceeded the known population of the precinct. FACT: The reasons for this can only be: a census under-count due to error, a voter registration over-count due to fraud, or some combination of the two. I am willing to concede that there is likely to be some census under-count in these areas. However, knowing that ACORN operates there, and that they have a long history of deliberately producing fraudulent voter registrations, it defies reason to hold that there are no fraudulent voter registrations in these precincts and that no one is using them to cast fraudulent votes. Your argument hinges on the absurdity that census data produced by the Clinton era Commerce Department, which has no history of fraud or bias is less accurate than voter registration data that is known to be influenced by a group with a history of fraud and bias. Secondly, being a resident of Pennsylvania, and knowing how the voter registration process works here, it is entirely possible for people to fraudulently register, obtain a registration card based on a fraudulent registration, and vote over and over again - including multiple times in the same election, by simply coming back with a different card, and signing the roll the first year, and then signing with the same signature in subsequent elections. Finally, requiring people to produce ID in order to vote will prevent them from operating this way.

DomKen -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:41:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheCabal quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You can spew a bunch of innuendo but you still cannot put forth facts. Facts are what matter. There has never been a single case of vote fraud that could connected to ACORN. That is a fact. Alright, let's try this again: FACT: ACORN and its staff members have been convicted of creating fraudulent voter registrations in several places. FACT: ACORN operates in Philly. FACT: In 2000, there were several precincts in Philly where both voter registration, and voter turnout exceeded the known population of the precinct. FACT: The reasons for this can only be: a census under-count due to error, a voter registration over-count due to fraud, or some combination of the two. I am willing to concede that there is likely to be some census under-count in these areas. However, knowing that ACORN operates there, and that they have a long history of deliberately producing fraudulent voter registrations, it defies reason to hold that there are no fraudulent voter registrations in these precincts and that no one is using them to cast fraudulent votes. Your argument hinges on the absurdity that census data produced by the Clinton era Commerce Department, which has no history of fraud or bias is less accurate than voter registration data that is known to be influenced by a group with a history of fraud and bias. Bullshit. you cannot make the logical leap you are trying to make. The census has a huge well known undercount in urban areas. That's why the census wanted to use sampling in 2000 and the GOP screamed bloody murder because an accurate count of the inner ciity would cost the GOP safe seats. You further cannot simply make the claim that since ACORN had some bad registrations turned in that were caught, mostly by ACORN itself, that thousands more registrations made it through the process and people voted based on those registrations. You are postulating a huge conspiracy, many different registrars, election board officials, poll workers, poll watchers and a cadre of fake voters, with nary a person breaking their silence for more than a decade which is beyond absurd. There is one single point that I'll keep repeating until you get it, No one has ever found even one fraudulent vote that could be traced to an ACORN registration. Not anywhere and not for any election.

TheCabal -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 5:53:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Bullshit. you cannot make the logical leap you are trying to make. The census has a huge well known undercount in urban areas. That's why the census wanted to use sampling in 2000 and the GOP screamed bloody murder because an accurate count of the inner ciity would cost the GOP safe seats. You further cannot simply make the claim that since ACORN had some bad registrations turned in that were caught, mostly by ACORN itself, that thousands more registrations made it through the process and people voted based on those registrations. You are postulating a huge conspiracy, many different registrars, election board officials, poll workers, poll watchers and a cadre of fake voters, with nary a person breaking their silence for more than a decade which is beyond absurd. There is one single point that I'll keep repeating until you get it, No one has ever found even one fraudulent vote that could be traced to an ACORN registration. Not anywhere and not for any election. That's right - it's a large conspiracy - and huge chunks of it are out in the open. Which is part of the reason sensible Democrats are trying to put a lot of distance between themselves and ACORN. Now, if you want to believe that ACORN is filling out and submitting all these fraudulent voter registrations just for shiznits and giggles, you go right ahead and believe that. However, for the curious and non-gullible among us, we will continue to wonder what the purpose of creating a fraudulent voter registration is, if it isn't to attempt to use it to cast a fraudulent vote. Additional reading here: The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 9:16:42 PM)
You need a lesson what what voter fraud really is... What Is Voter Fr aud? “Voter fraud” is fraud by voters. More precisely, “voter fraud” occurs when individuals cast ballots despite knowing that they are ineligible to vote, in an attempt to defraud the election system. 1 This sounds straightforward. And yet, voter fraud is often conflated, intentionally or unintentionally, with other forms of election misconduct or irregularities. There are many such problems that are improperly lumped under the umbrella of “voter fraud.” Some result from technological glitches, whether sinister or benign: for example, voting machines may record inaccurate tallies due to fraud, user error, or technical malfunction. 2 Some result from honest mistakes by election officials or voters: for example, a person with a conviction may honestly believe herself eligible to vote when the conviction renders her temporarily ineligible, 3 or an election official may believe that certain identification documents are required to vote when no such requirement exists.4 And some irregularities involve fraud or intentional misconduct perpetrated by actors other than individual voters: for example, flyers may spread misinformation about the proper locations or procedures for voting; thugs may be dispatched to intimidate voters at the polls; missing ballot boxes may mysteriously reappear. These are all problems with the election administration system … but they are not “voter fraud.” Conflating these concerns is not merely a semantic issue. First, the rhetorical sloppiness fosters the isperception that fraud by voters is prevalent. That is, when every problem with an election is attributed to “voter fraud,” it appears that fraud by voters is much more common than is actually the case. This, in turn, promotes inappropriate policy. By inflating the perceived prevalence of fraud by voters, policymakers find it easier to justify restrictions on those voters that are not warranted by the real facts. Moreover, mislabeling problems as “voter fraud” distracts attention from the real election issues that need to be resolved. It draws attention away from problems best addressed, for example, by resource allocation or poll worker education or implementation of longstanding statutory mandates, and instead improperly focuses on the voter as the source of the problem. Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 9:18:10 PM)
quote: Now, if you want to believe that ACORN is filling out and submitting all these fraudulent voter registrations just for shiznits and giggles, you go right ahead and believe that. ACORN didnt fill out anything. A business cant fill out a single form. Those hired to work for ACORN filled out forms with the intention of getting more money. And this you find gullible to believe???

Hippiekinkster -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:14:48 PM)
McCain campaign paid Republican operative accused of voter fraud

Real0ne -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne you can get in your car and drive from county to county register under a fake name because nothing it mandated to be shown for ID. Im confused... isnt this the registration laws in Wisconsin? As of January 1, 2006, all municipalities in Wisconsin require voter registration prior to a person being allowed to vote. The federal "Help American Vote Act of 2002" requires any person registering to vote to supply his or her Wisconsin Department of Transportation-issued driver's license number. Electors who have not been issued a Wisconsin driver's license must provide the last four digits of their Social Security Number OR their Wisconsin state ID card number. If the elector does not have a current, valid Wisconsin driver’s license, Wisconsin state ID card, or Social Security Number, the applicant may indicate this by filling in the appropriate circle on the registration form. (Box 2 on GAB-131) http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting THE REGISTRATION CANNOT BE PROCESSED UNTIL THE ELECTOR PROVIDES THIS INFORMATION. If the voter has a current, valid Wisconsin driver’s license but does not know the number and did not bring it to the polling place, poll workers should allow the voter to vote by provisional ballot. (Note: the voter CANNOT use the last 4 digits of their Social Security Number if he or she has been issued a Wisconsin driver’s license). The provisional ballot will not be counted until the voter either: a) brings his or her driver license number to his or her polling place before the polls close at 8:00 pm on Election Day; or b) transmits (via fax, email, telephone call or personal visit) his or her driver’s license number to the municipal clerk before 4:00 pm on the day after the Election. Anyone wishing to vote in the state of Wisconsin has three options to register: 1. BY MAIL: Download the Application for Voter Registration (GAB-131), complete the form and mail it into the municipal clerk's office. Find your Wisconsin Municipal Clerk here. The application must be postmarked no later than the 20th day (3rd Wednesday) before the election. (For the Spring Primary, that date is Wednesday, January 26, 2011, and for the Spring Election that date is Wednesday, March 16, 2011.) PLEASE NOTE: State and federal law now requires that any first-time voter submitting a registration application by mail provide a copy of an acceptable identifying document that provides proof of residence. (A “first-time voter” is an individual who has not voted in an election in Wisconsin.) Acceptable forms of proof of residence are outlined below. Please note that first-time voters registering by mail may not use a residential lease as proof of residence. The copy of the form of proof of residence must be included when submitting the registration application. If a copy of proof of residence is not included, the elector will be required to supply it before being issued a ballot at the polling place or before being issued an absentee ballot in the municipal clerk’s office. 2. IN PERSON: Register in the municipal clerk's office up to 5:00 PM or the close of business whichever is later on the day before the election. (For the Spring Primary, that date is Monday, February 14, 2011 and for the Spring Election that date is, Monday, April 4, 2011.) Note: After the BY MAIL deadline, an elector registering in person in the clerk's office is required to present acceptable proof of residence as outlined below. 3. AT THE POLLING PLACE ON ELECTION DAY: If you wish to register to vote at your polling place, you must bring proof that you have lived at your present location for at least 10 days preceding the election. For purposes of voter registration, acceptable forms of proof of residence must include: A current and complete name, including both the given and family name; and A current and complete residential address, including a numbered street address, if any, and the name of a municipality. **Forms with an expiration date must be valid on Election Day. PROOF OF RESIDENCE The following constitute acceptable Proof-of-Residence if the document contains the information specified above: A current and valid Wisconsin driver license. A current and valid Wisconsin identification card. Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit. Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card. A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election. A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail). A university, college or technical institute fee card (must include photo). A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo). A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day. Bank statement. Paycheck. A check or other document issued by a unit of government. http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting yes but they dont enforce it. just walk in say yeh yeh yeh and vote. Its a major bitch around here. Milwaukee had more votes cast than are voters was it in 2004. that as laughable as the one county in florida that had a negative 12000 votes for gore! People were in a negative mood I suppose. gag

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:25:23 PM)
quote: es but they dont enforce it. just walk in say yeh yeh yeh and vote. Its a major bitch around here. Milwaukee had more votes cast than are voters was it in 2004. that as laughable as the one county in florida that had a negative 12000 votes for gore! People were in a negative mood I suppose. gag I dont ever recall being able to vote without an ID, but maybe its just the differences in states. I have no issue with a mandatory policy of proving identification.

Real0ne -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:31:21 PM)
well the idea of allowing residents to vote is flat out fraud and bullshit. all you need a valid dl, hell all of illinois can come in with a valid DL and vote! They need a proof of citizenship to even make it lawful! These are all SOP for fraud and people are not aware of it. Why would ANY state allow anyone but a known STATE CITIZEN to vote in any given state! what business is it of any exchange students to vote here????? They get to choose judges and are here for a year for school! WTF is that shit? See you get these people from other countries think they know what goes on here mouthing off.

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:40:36 PM)
I was not aware students on visa's here could vote.

Real0ne -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/21/2011 10:56:43 PM)
IF they bother to even check all you need is a Dl or a utility bill I didnt mean students from a foreign country I am not sure about them, but anyone from within. Since they do not check properly I would bet they can and do for their friends. they dont want to look at ANYTHING that requires them to clean the house up. you all need to realize the only way these people thrive is on fraud. if there is ANYTHING they can do they will. If you try to look into it they all clam up. No one knows anything. Hell one person asking questions about the election fraud in Milwaukee, the official even refused to give them their full name! That is a federal crime! Its that way in EVERY part of what we have labeled government here and the little bit that actually makes it to press is usually skewed off of the main point. Top to bottom fraud when you really dig into to it and its because people believe rather than validate.

SternSkipper -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:02:01 AM)
quote: Hey this is the way it hasALWAYS been brutha! they tossed out the jeffersons manual of parlimentary rules with the constitution long ago! Only if you are talking about Wisconsin my friend, I can say they don't have a practice of ignoring a SENIOR LEGISLATOR while he has the floor. You certainly couldn't do that in a northeastern state and get away with it. They cut the speaker off, didn't allow for one of his peers granting him their time and very obviously headed to a vote. I can pretty much assure you there will be a number of lawsuits over that and even more sure that if it leaves the state on appeal, the plaintiff will prevail. But that's not what's important. They've written a faulty law, which legal analysts are already saying can easily go to the supreme court and be cited as violating rulings that were handed down ages ago concerning poll taxes. have you READ the law? Because reading the comments here, I don't really see any evidence anyone has. And I am getting told a bullshit story about when this started by a stuffed animal. Dude, this started when tea partiers showed up and not before, and I challenge you to PROVE otherwise. Show me the articles or video proving this was occurring in Wisconsin even 2 or 3 years ago. Or better yet, show me an east coast example of this occurring anytime in recent memory. Sure their have been weird incidents all over the country in several hundred years, but Wisconsin is making this SOP, And they ONLY reason they're even able to get away with it there is because there Senate is TINY. READ The BILL.

SternSkipper -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:05:21 AM)
quote: IF they bother to even check all you need is a Dl or a utility bill READ THE BILL... If you want a copy from a guy from out of state, pm em with your email address and I'll send it to you.

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:10:20 AM)
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/SB-6.pdf The bill.

tazzygirl -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:14:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: IF they bother to even check all you need is a Dl or a utility bill READ THE BILL... If you want a copy from a guy from out of state, pm em with your email address and I'll send it to you. Ok, so far in reading this... With certain limited exceptions, this bill requires each eligible elector who attempts to register or to vote at the polls on election day to present a valid Wisconsin driver’s license issued to the person by the Department of Transportation (DOT), a valid, current identification card issued to the person by a U.S. uniformed service, or a valid Wisconsin identification card issued to the person by DOT or, if DOT implements the provisions of the federal REAL ID Act, an identification certificate issued to the person by DOT (see below). A person whose address is confidential as a result of domestic abuse, sexual assault, or stalking or in certain cases a person who has been required by a law enforcement officer to surrender his or her license (see below) is exempted from the requirement. Under the bill, any person who applies for an absentee ballot, except a military or overseas elector, as defined by federal law, or a person whose address is confidential as a result of domestic abuse, sexual assault, or stalking, must also provide a copy of the license or identification card, unless: 1) the person has already provided a copy of his or her license or identification card in connection with an absentee ballot cast at a previous election and has not changed his or her name or address since that election; 2) the person has been required by a law enforcement officer to surrender his or her license (see below); 3) the person is indefinitely confined, in which case the person may submit a statement signed by the person who witnesses his or her absentee ballot verifying his or her identity; or 4) the person is an occupant of any nursing home, or is an occupant of a community−based residential facility, retirement home, adult family home, or residential care apartment complex where a municipality sends special voting deputies, in which case the person may submit a statement signed by the deputies verifying his or her identity. The bill continues current requirements for certain electors to provide proof of residence in order to register or to vote, but discontinues the use of corroborating electors to verify residence. Under the bill, if a person who votes at a polling place fails to provide a license or identification card, the person may vote provisionally. If a person votes by absentee ballot and fails to provide a copy of the license or identification card, unless exempted from the requirement, the ballot is treated as a provisional ballot. A provisional ballot is marked by the poll workers, who immediately contact the municipal clerk or board of election commissioners. The person may then provide the required identification either at the polling place before the closing hour or at the office of the clerk or board. If the person does not provide the required identification to the clerk or board by 4 p.m. on the day following the election, the person’s vote is not counted. If a person receives a citation from a law enforcement officer in any jurisdiction that is dated within 60 days of the date of an election and is required to surrender his or her Wisconsin operator’s license at the time the citation is issued, the elector may present an original copy of the citation or notice of intent to revoke or suspend the elector’s operator’s license in lieu of his or her operator’s license or, if the elector is voting an absentee ballot by mail, may enclose a copy of the citation or notice in lieu of a copy of his or her operator’s license. In this case, the bill provides that the elector’s ballot is received and counted if otherwise valid, but the ballot is marked so it can be identified during the canvassing and recount process if the validity of the ballot is questioned. Im not seeing a problem so far. Am I missing something?

SternSkipper -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:14:56 AM)
quote: IF they bother to even check all you need is a Dl or a utility bill I didnt mean students from a foreign country I am not sure about them, but anyone from within. Since they do not check properly I would bet they can and do for their friends. Have you read the badger herald? They go into a little bit of detail concerning the legislative and issues in the law itself. And what I find funniest is that the guys alleging all this fraud (which several sources cite as 0.0006 percent of the electorate) Explain to me how it is that the party who apparently WON the election (I mean you ELECTED your governor, and your senate, RIGHT? Or did they just seize power?). Or could it be that there are sufficient exclusions that they'll be able to now maintain their grip on you poor SOBs by working all the exclusion clauses in the new law. Which is very likely the case. But being the cookie monster, you'll no doubt make some assertion that it's ALWAYS been that way.

DomImus -> RE: YouTube - Wisconsin Passes Voter Suppression Bill (5/22/2011 12:21:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Talk about desperate tactics, well, the law and rules are for everybody and they can’t ram this law through like this. This is not democratic and probably illegal. I like how the guy didn't want any cameras or the media to see what happened. YouTube - Wisconsin Passes "Voter Suppression Bill" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYz8HL5Bww&feature=feedu This all goes back to the old adage we saw in play in Florida in 2000: "Democrats want to be sure that every vote is counted. Republicans want to be sure that every vote is counted accurately." The more things change the more they stay the same.

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