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Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 1:43:29 AM

DeviantlyD

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110524/ts_yblog_thelookout/parents-keep-childs-gender-under-wraps

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:01:29 AM

VaguelyCurious

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The grandparents don't know - does that mean none of them has ever changed a nappy? In four months?

(That's what jumped out at me.)

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:05:18 AM

SexyBossyBBW

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Picture looks like that of a boy. It doens't matter to me, untille/unless the little one wants to be girly/boyish, or neutral; and whether he/she wants to reproduce. M

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:07:13 AM

Charnegui

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I can understand them parents

If you are looking around, you'll see that there are different expectations of girls and boys and they'll have to live up with those.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:12:11 AM

LadyPact

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This comes across to Me like the parents are using the kids to prove a point. One that was their parent's idea, rather than the children themselves. I'm not a big fan of parents using their children as pawns.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:22:51 AM

LadyConstanze

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The odd thing about it is that by making this big secret out of it, they are drawing attention to the gender...

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 2:23:25 AM

Termyn8or

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Quite interesting. I don't think anything bad of this, I think they're right. For so many things it really doesn't matter. For the record I now know TWO union construction workers who are female (electricians). Women NEVER did that before, in the old days. Well kinda.

You might remember a TV show in the past (the only kind I remember since I gave up on TV), a skit about the androgynous "Pat". I don't remember if it was SNL or what but it was pretty cool. Everyone always wondered but would never ask. I actually met someone, I couldn't tell really, and I didn't ask. But there was no issue about it.

But now society is fucked up. What about gym class ? The showers ? The restrooms ? Are we to do away with urinals now ? And, ummmm, would that even be necessary ? "Urinals are provided for those who can use them", for faster throughput I would assume. And don't assume that only males can use a urinal, I have personally seen proof to the contrary.

It will be interesting to see how this goes in the next fifteen years or so.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 3:51:01 AM

DesFIP

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Seems odd that they aren't telling their own parents and demanding the older kids keep it a secret. But I'm still confused about how letting a kid pick out the clothes they want to wear is unconventional. To me it just seems sensible, buy them the things that they will wear instead of trying to force them to wear things they dislike.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 4:14:43 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This comes across to Me like the parents are using the kids to prove a point. One that was their parent's idea, rather than the children themselves. I'm not a big fan of parents using their children as pawns.

I totally agree. And this part bothers me. How many 5 year olds are concerned about gender when entering kindergarden?

"
Because Jazz and Kio wear pink and have long hair, they're frequently assumed to be girls, according to Stocker. He said he and Witterick don't correct people--they leave it to the kids to do it if they want to. But Stocker and Witterick's choices haven't always made life easy for their kids. Though Jazz likes dressing as a girl, he doesn't seem to want to be mistaken for one. He recently asked his mother to let the leaders of a nature center know that he's a boy. And he chose not to attend a conventional school because of the questions about his gender. Asked whether that upsets him, Jazz nodded."
Kids have enough problems to deal with, without their parents making life even harder.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 4:48:24 AM

DesFIP

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I will say that leaving it to the kids to correct other adults is unfair on the kids. They're 2 and 5. Ffs, how many 5 year olds do you know who feel comfortable talking to strange adults? Hell, I remember when my son was in pre-school one of his friends never spoke. They were concerned about him possibly having a speech problem, until the parents said this was astonishing because when he got home he wouldn't shut up about what went on and how much fun it was.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 5:57:28 AM

LillyBoPeep

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ai ya...

so someone takes a generally good idea and turns it into frankenstein... bleh, been there, done that.
they ARE creating more focus on gender, not less, by being so militant, yet vague.

it's true that kids receive TONS of socialization and messages based on their sex and how that sex should translate into gender. XX's should only play with dolls and easy bake ovens, because that's what our society believes represents the gender we've associated with XX, while XY's play with GI Joes and trucks -- never the twain shall meet!

i think it's great that they encourage their kids to exist wherever they want to exist, but i feel sorry for the son who is now trying to establish a boundary -- "yes, i am a boy" and his parents won't help him. that seems contrary to what they were trying to do. didn't they want him to discover the boundary for himself? and now that he has, he's upset and doesn't want to go to school because he has to constantly explain. that makes growing up, an already complicated thing, even MORE so for this kid because his parents have such a "grand and noble point."
how irritating...

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 6:06:52 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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This:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

ai ya...

so someone takes a generally good idea and turns it into frankenstein... bleh, been there, done that.
they ARE creating more focus on gender, not less, by being so militant, yet vague.

it's true that kids receive TONS of socialization and messages based on their sex and how that sex should translate into gender. XX's should only play with dolls and easy bake ovens, because that's what our society believes represents the gender we've associated with XX, while XY's play with GI Joes and trucks -- never the twain shall meet!

i think it's great that they encourage their kids to exist wherever they want to exist, but i feel sorry for the son who is now trying to establish a boundary -- "yes, i am a boy" and his parents won't help him. that seems contrary to what they were trying to do. didn't they want him to discover the boundary for himself? and now that he has, he's upset and doesn't want to go to school because he has to constantly explain. that makes growing up, an already complicated thing, even MORE so for this kid because his parents have such a "grand and noble point."
how irritating...

Thanks for saving me the typing.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 6:13:50 AM

DarkSteven

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Beyond weird.

The idiot parents are overlooking that the first years of a child's life, he or she is learning how to fit in and what is expected. Without that, the child will not fit in well.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 6:33:21 AM

littlewonder

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That kid is gonna be fucked up for the rest of its life.

But if we're gonna play the guessing game, I suspect boy..looks like a boy and they already have two boys. The likelihood is that it's a boy.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 6:38:14 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

That kid is gonna be fucked up for the rest of its life.

I could not possibly agree more. And they have 2 boys who just so happen to BOTH like long hair and wearing pink? Mama bear is deluding herself. She is encouraging her boys to be girly in a world where they will be ridiculed for that. It doesn't make the ridicule right, but it is what is. There are many things in this world that are not right.

Personally, I consider this emotional child abuse of the worst kind. Part of why it's so evil is b/c the parents can delude themselves into thinking they are doing it for the common good.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 6:42:33 AM

FelineFae

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i like one of the comments left saying " you need a license to drive, but any idiot can have a kid. "

i think the concern of gender stereotyping is a little bit beyond a baby's grasp, they really need focus on the whole hand eye coordination and things of that sort.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 7:24:50 AM

Marc2b

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Whether we like it or not, gender is one of the fundamental things in which we judge and relate to each other. The parents and others of like mind have a point in that society places powerful constraints and expectations upon us based upon notions of gender roles. Some gender roles can’t be helped. It always has been (and baring any bizarre scientific discoveries) always will be the female that pushes out the baby and the male who stands there saying, “breathe honey… breathe!” Still, many of the gender roles are artificial. There is no law of nature that says men can’t wear dresses or that women can’t have a buzz cut (things unheard of in our society not too long ago). Or we use euphemisms to differentiate by gender the same things. We tell ourselves that boys don’t play with dolls. Boys do play with dolls… we just don’t call them dolls… we call them action figures. So powerful is this need to know (so we can “properly” relate) that one of the first things we do is dress the kid up in pink or blue. And I don’t have to tell anyone out there which color stands for which… you already know.

Although we still have powerful societal expectations based upon gender, we have nonetheless “loosened up” in recent years. Women walk around in pants all the time and nobody thinks anything of it (men still attract notice for wearing a dress but that too is not the shocker it used to be). I’ve seen my grand-niece play with both baby dolls and toy trucks, and nobody really cares (truth be told I am more worried about the challenges she will face being bi-racial than any gender roles). When the parents say that they are letting their child choose… they are wrong. He (generic) can already choose. What they are really saying is they don’t want anyone influencing his choices. This is both unrealistic and cruel.

It is unrealistic because children learn by modeling other’s behavior. We often have debates in society about being good role models… usually in relation to some famous sports figure. The truth is that we are all role models to children. Every time you are in the presence of a child, you are (for better or worse) a role model… even if you are just standing their picking your nose. People will not know how to relate to this child, they will act confused toward it. If they see it doing something outside of the expected societal norms they may scowl or exhibit some other body language that denotes confusion or disapproval that will instinctually be picked up on by the child. The child will learn that it is not “normal.” No choice is a choice and no influence is influence.

It is cruel because the child will not learn how society at large expects it to behave and relate to others. This will cause confusion on the part of the child as well as self doubt and a lack of confidence in relating to other people… perpetuating an increasing cycle that could lead more psychological problems. Somebody needs to clue these parents in that what they have is a baby… not a social experiment.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 9:12:29 AM

CynthiaWVirginia

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And yet...my uncle is fine.

Grandma passed him off as a girl, because he was so beautiful, until he started kindergarten. We are talking long frilly dresses handed down from sisters, and his hair done in long, blonde Shirley Temple ringlets.

He grew up just fine, is het, not kinky, doesn't cross dress, isn't gender bent, and is something of a health nut.

I read the article and I think the parents might have a good idea but are going about it the wrong way. Like them, I wanted my son to be free to be himself, so when playing with Barbie dolls helped him make progress...yeah, I bought him dolls...and the horses, doll houses, Barbie swimming pools, cars, etc., that went with it. He was razzed for it in kindergarten when a girl brought her Barbie for show and tell and my son let her know he had the same one at home. He also had an Easy Bake Oven. My neighbor's boys acted all redneck macho over that...so I invited them over and my son and I made ourselves each a small cake. When they asked to have some, I told them if they wanted a cake, there's the chocolate cake mix that only needed water added and to have at it. Soon all the kids on the block were stopping over to our apartment, in hopes of being allowed to use the Easy Bake Oven, lol. Boys included. They all became very good at decorating cakes, too.

With the Barbies...my son was adventurous. He had deluxe Barbie or whatever cars, and her date, Luke Skywalker or some Power Ranger, lol, would drive. Unless she was driving and her date was fighting off bad guys with a lightsabre or doing karate. Action figures became so much more fun to the other boys on the block when they realized having a female audience might be nice. I had to sew Power Ranger outfits for some of his Barbies... And a tight black latex cat suit, so she could torment Batman or whoever. (Most of his playtime was re-enacting movies.) His Barbies wore out many grappling hooks, used rope, and even "made" small camp fires to roast mini marshmallows on. (Under supervision.) Neighbor girls played dolls with him too, and he got stuck playing some family stuff, which I think was good for him. The girls would sometimes have their dolls pick arguments with his, and he had to talk his way through it or his character/doll would be stuck with an angry wife doll who makes him walk the floor with the screaming baby.

He always knew he was a boy, but I encouraged him to try what caught his interest. If kids made fun of him for doing girly stuff like cooking waffles from scratch or making lattice top pies...I told him some of the best chefs are men.

When I was a kid, I was a tomboy. Going fishing, hunting, climbing tall trees, whittling, playing pirates and cowboys and indians. I can understand the freedom they want to give their kids, but children can have freedom to explore fun things...without having the burden of keeping their gender a secret.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 9:35:43 AM

VirginPotty

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I find it strange that a "close friend" knows the sex but not the grandparents.
Jazz wants to be identified as a boy but allowed to wear pink clothes & have long hair makes me think that Mom is pursuading him to wear the pink/keep his hair long.

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RE: Parents Keep Child's Gender A Secret - 5/25/2011 9:41:37 AM

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