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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 2:55:33 PM   
Sanity


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It certainly would have been had it been Bush or McCain who authorized an autopen signature on it.

YOU used to stand in firm opposition to the Patriot Act

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2161908

mnot used to be against the Patriot Act

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3054092

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2779621

juliaoceania opined that it was one of her top issues

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=428160

Those were just a few, and I bet the list goes on and on, too.

Make it a topic of discussion now though, and youre a bad person.

Whats changed?




quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is going to be one of those 33 page threads, isn't it....


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 2:58:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

YOU used to stand in firm opposition to the Patriot Act


I still do. Did you not read my post?

Please actually find out what my views are before criticizing them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Nope - I still hear nothing


The "Patriot" Act is a travesty, pure and simple.

I don't care who signs/votes for it. It spits on the Constitution.


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:05:53 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Make it a topic of discussion now though, and youre a bad person.

Whats changed?


No, you did not make the Patriot Act the topic of discussion...interesting spin job there


quote:

Did Republicans ever oppose it, as a party? No.

Theyre not the hypocrites...

Heres the part where the silence from the left seems the loudest -

Harry Reid (D-Nev.) accused Rand Paul of trying to protect terrorists for opposing it

(I can hear a pin drop from across the room)

And Obama signed it

(Nope - I still hear nothing)


Here is what Reid said about it in 2006 (pssstttt, Bush was President)


quote:

Reid Statement on the Patriot Act
Washington, DC — Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid today delivered the following floor remarks on the Senate’s vote for final passage of the Patriot Act. Democrats have supported the PATRIOT Act from the beginning, overwhelmingly voted for the improved version today, and will continue to fight to make it even better in the future.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARRY REID ON FINAL PASSAGE OF THE PATRIOT ACT REAUTHORIZATION BILL

March 2, 2006

Mr. President, yesterday the Senate passed a bill negotiated by the junior Senator from New Hampshire to strengthen protections in the PATRIOT Act. In light of the improvements contained in the Sununu bill, I will now vote in favor of the pending conference report.

As I have emphasized many times, Democrats support the basic authorities contained in the PATRIOT Act. We voted for the original Act in 2001. We unanimously supported the reauthorization bill that passed the Senate last summer. And in recent months, we have been vigilant to ensure that no provision of the Act would expire during ongoing negotiations over a long-term extension of the law.

But our support for the PATRIOT Act does not mean a blank check for the President. Last December, a bipartisan group of senators joined together to insist on improvements in the flawed reauthorization bill that had returned from a House-Senate conference. Republican and Democratic senators alike declared that Congress can provide the government with the powers it needs to protect Americans, and at the same time ensure sufficient checks and oversight to prevent abuses of these powers. Security and liberty are neither contradictory, nor mutually exclusive.

Our call for improvements in the PATRIOT Act has now borne fruit. We stood up to the White House to demand a more balanced approach to anti-terror tactics, and we have succeeded. Thanks to the courageous stand of Senator Sununu and a handful of other Republicans, along with the longstanding efforts of Chairman Specter, Senator Leahy and other Democrats on the Judiciary Committee, the Senate will soon pass a stronger, better PATRIOT Act.

The current bill is not perfect, and falls short of the unanimously supported Senate bill we passed last summer. I would have preferred additional improvements in the conference report. But the version of the PATRIOT Act we will soon reauthorize is a vast improvement over the law we passed hastily in 2001.



Now, here you are attacking people who went along and supported the bill the entire time as partisan hacks... it is YOU that are the partisan hack. You look for hypocrisies where there are none, and turn your back on glaring ones.


I have always been and will continue to be, against the patriot act no matter what party supports it (and seeing the both parties always have, it seems a rather dumb thing for you to rant about)

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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:11:00 PM   
Sanity


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I didtn write that you dont. What I wrote is that previously you stood in firm opposition

Now you worry that a thread about it may go on for 33 pages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I still do. Did you not read my post?

Please actually find out what my views are before criticizing them.


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:14:27 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		There is to me a huge difference between being against the patriot act and understanding that once the can of stank is opened, putting it back is not going to work, no matter how much you want it to > Personally, the patriot act sucks, I have to deal with certain changes, or not visit the US. so yes it affects me, but I completely understand that they sure as hell dont wanna stop catching terrorists like the mental christian abortion doctor killing wannabe...or any eeebil muslims or radical lefties or random wankers out to kill innocent people.
I dont like it, but yeah I sure as hell understand it.


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:15:40 PM   
Sanity


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Psst

The point is that leftists once burned Bush in effigy over it

Now leftists are getting pissed if its even mentioned

And uh... Harry Reid was reelected by many of those who claimed to oppose the act

The underlying current of the thread is that the vehement, hateful leftist opposition to Bush throughout the Bush years wasnt based on principle

Not at all.




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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:23:55 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Mnot also stands against the patriot act. Its there right in this thread.  Mnot also stands against the ever increasing deficit the republicans are building while fucking around with corporate tax cuts which the Reaganites and the W-ites twice now who instituted them said, they dont fuckin work, they are a huge mistake and now we are on round three of it and going for more than ever and they still dont work.

However, as I pointed out they both had over 60% passage both houses so far, and of all the bills to veto and fight about, they aint gonna get it, when you can rest assured if there gets a squeaky nothin barely passed bullshit republican budget passed, it is the fuck outta here, thats fighting about something.

So, while I am vehemently opposed to some things, I like everyone else has to live with them, I am sure Tom, that you haven't shot any IRS agents because you don't want to pay taxes, nor have you singled out and shot every second man in the government because government is too big.

What hypocrisy is there in that?   Its like if I daily for years tell everyone that Reagan was a horseshit president, caused the slow undoing of America we are seeing now, and exacerbated by Ws disastrous policies.... (this is called an anacoluthon, btw)

Doesn't mean I will loutishly paste that shit all over every fuckin thread.

I am against the patriot act.  Get it?   Lets move on, and dont continue impugning me with your bullshit and absurd illogic either.  
   



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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:27:22 PM   
Sanity


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What are your thoughts regarding Harry Reid accusing Rand Paul of trying to protect terrorists for opposing the measure


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

There is to me a huge difference between being against the patriot act and understanding that once the can of stank is opened, putting it back is not going to work, no matter how much you want it to > Personally, the patriot act sucks, I have to deal with certain changes, or not visit the US. so yes it affects me, but I completely understand that they sure as hell dont wanna stop catching terrorists like the mental christian abortion doctor killing wannabe...or any eeebil muslims or radical lefties or random wankers out to kill innocent people.
I dont like it, but yeah I sure as hell understand it.



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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:30:16 PM   
Sanity


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You will have to forgive me if I couldnt hear you over the sound of the pin dropping...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Mnot also stands against the patriot act. Its there right in this thread.



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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:33:03 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I see it as a tit for tat motion... I seem to remember that  not liking the patriot act was to be  pro terrorist, you were "with us or against us"  by republicans. Anti america - non patriotic, and this is his way of saying GOTCHA!
now I could be completely wrong, I dont give a shit one way or another.
but that is my opinion


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:37:30 PM   
Sanity


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Thank you Lucy for the honest answer

Cant criticize you for that


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:42:20 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Psst

The point is that leftists once burned Bush in effigy over it


Which leftists? Who burned Bush in effigy? Was it anyone in the democratic party? Was it peacenikliberals? No, it was anarchists....


quote:

Now leftists are getting pissed if its even mentioned


What leftists are pissed if its even mentioned?

quote:

And uh... Harry Reid was reelected by many of those who claimed to oppose the act


We went over this earlier, many people who oppose one thing a political leader does are not necessarily going to let that impact their vote. In case you hadn't noticed, Nevada is not really a hub of anti-Bush activism


quote:

The underlying current of the thread is that the vehement, hateful leftist opposition to Bush throughout the Bush years wasnt based on principle

Not at all.


Edited this part.....

Now here is the real impetus of this thread...


quote:

Did Republicans ever oppose it, as a party? No.

Theyre not the hypocrites...

Heres the part where the silence from the left seems the loudest -

Harry Reid (D-Nev.) accused Rand Paul of trying to protect terrorists for opposing it

(I can hear a pin drop from across the room)

And Obama signed it

(Nope - I still hear nothing)


The democrats never opposed it either. You made this wild assumption that everyone on what you consider the "left" have exactly the same opinions and march in lockstep behind the leader. Many democrats (majority actually)) supported the Patriot Act.

I think it is entertaining the quote you picked out from me... about Hilary Clinton and how I couldn't support her. It just showed how I am not a hypocrite and I stand behind the stances I believe in, if they are important enough to me.




< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/27/2011 3:48:47 PM >

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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:44:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I see it as a tit for tat motion... I seem to remember that  not liking the patriot act was to be  pro terrorist, you were "with us or against us"  by republicans. Anti america - non patriotic, and this is his way of saying GOTCHA!
now I could be completely wrong, I dont give a shit one way or another.
but that is my opinion



Yes, you are wrong, because you aren't considering what the Paul amendment would have done and Reid's just playing politics. It would suspend the one area of the PA that could be argued to be unconstitutional.

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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:44:27 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I see it as a tit for tat motion... I seem to remember that  not liking the patriot act was to be  pro terrorist, you were "with us or against us"  by republicans. Anti america - non patriotic, and this is his way of saying GOTCHA!
now I could be completely wrong, I dont give a shit one way or another.
but that is my opinion



You are right about that, but it wasn't only republicans that supported it.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:55:16 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Julia at the time, I wasnt paying much attention to politics, I just know I was getting a lot of anti liberal, anti Canadian, anti - non american bullshit, and that it was very much "you are with us or with the terrorists"....
I didnt follow the voting figures back then.



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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:57:43 PM   
Sanity


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The hatefulness I am referring to permeated and permeateS coffee shops, bumper stickers, discussion boards, MSNBC...

I remember old people being physically accosted at the RNC convention in Minneapolis, for example.

The air was thick with leftists demonizing and openly reviling anyone even remotely Conservative

It still echoes on, look at the haters who accuse popeye of being on the right even now

(Who is that monkey in the middle you and your circle of friends like to laugh and joke about julia).

In my opinion it seems disingenuous of you to go on pretending that only anarchists are and were so consumed with the hate that I am referring to



< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/27/2011 3:59:05 PM >

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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 3:59:03 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Now you worry that a thread about it may go on for 33 pages.


Worry?

Do they do jokes in Idaho?

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 4:07:12 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Joe Biden flew in to Boise once

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Now you worry that a thread about it may go on for 33 pages.


Worry?

Do they do jokes in Idaho?


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 4:23:05 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Obama signs Patriot Act - 5/27/2011 4:39:06 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You will have to forgive me if I couldnt hear you over the sound of the pin dropping...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Mnot also stands against the patriot act. Its there right in this thread.



Yeah, I know you are caught out as the fool and now go into the internal enlightenment mode,  the fact remains, the pin dropping might be your head, since I was clear that I am not in favor of it.

It might be instructive to educate you on the colloqualism regarding pins dropping.

It means that there is someone who comes about and says something that points out something someone says is false or is in direct contravention to a previously stated position. In answer to it, there is an embarrassed silence. 

That certainly hasnt happened here, and your usual impugning and ignorant twisting of fact, since you find yourself once again embarrassed (as you usually do) by running around devoid of them and trying (very unsuccessfully) to equate some non sequitur to another non sequitur and then strawman and ad hominem by imagined outcomes and ignore facts........

I said I didnt like the motherfucker.  I have always said I didnt like the motherfucker.  Get some hearing aids, because your not hearing the pin drop makes you look stupid. And I am not stupid enough to believe you really are as stupid as you make out.  I don't believe it.     

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 5/27/2011 4:51:34 PM >

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