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RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:12:58 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		When comparing the United States to any single country in Europe, it helps to keep the size in perspective:

http://goeurope.about.com/od/europeanmaps/l/bl-country-size-comparison-map.htm

So all of Austria, with room to spare, takes up less land than the state of Arkansas.
Probably all of Austria is less populated than the 5 boroughs of NYC.

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Profile   Post #: 221
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:18:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OK, Mr. Wizard. You are going to have to waltz me thru how land mass affects per capita comparisons, I missed that branch of mathematical fantasy reasonings.  They musta had fish sticks in the cafeteria that day.

Solve this word problem. 

How many innumerates does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer:  3. Because Ice Cream ain't got no bones. 

Bonus points if you knew I was going to laugh in your face. 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/1/2011 2:20:46 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:19:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The five Burroughs of NY City population... 8,175,133 Infant Mortality Rate for NY City... 5.9 infant deaths for every 1,000 births
Population of Austria..... 8,210,281........................... Infant Motality Rate for Austria .. 4.4 for every 1,000 births.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:23:19 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Nope...most people understand that it flies in the face of the Constitution to require Americans to buy a product based solely on the premise that they have a pulse.


But its perfectly OK to force people to buy an ID just to vote.


You're fucking kidding, right?!!  $10 or $20 bucks for an ID, verses $2,000 to $3,000 for Health Insurance???  Oh, and ummm... you're supposed to be an American Citizen in order to "vote" -- so why shouldn't you have to show PROOF of such, as well as PROOF that you are who you say you are?!!  You have to show PROOF of who you are at the grocery store, but not to vote?!!  Yeah... right!!!  HINT:  The only people who subscribe to this line of thinking are those who (i) are NOT ELIGIBLE, or (ii) seek to benefit from those who are NOT ELIGIBLE.



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Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:24:28 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		The five boroughs of NYC include Brooklyn, Yonkers, Queens and Bronx, Taz.  The population you pulled up is for Manhattan.

As far as nottertail's question; the per capita calculation takes in people from all states where some people are NOTORIOUSLY less healthy than in other places.  It may also take in all patients which include illegal aliens.  You want to make a comparison?  Compare Austria to a state of equal size with a population as equally homogeneous.  That comparison would be more fair.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:24:36 PM   
geilematz


Posts: 86
Joined: 1/1/2011
Status: offline 		if in doubt whether illegal immigrants ruin US healthcare system:
check EU in comparison to US:

take Greece and Italy, both countries facing lots of middle Eastern, North African and central Asian illegal immigrants, Greece in addition close to bankrupcy ... nonetheless a mother giving birth runs a 8-12 times lower risk of not surviving (immigrant women included) than in the USA

and since you doubt the relevance of Ireland which has by the way a national state health care system take the UK which has the same system (plus so and so many commonwealth immigrants ...), and again better figures than the USA

what counts: the RESULTS for everyone are far better than within the US

again: it is you that pay (already) so much and get so little

dont you tell me or everyone that your health system is the best in the world - because it isn't - it is just the most expensive but that's not a sign of quality

I wish you all perfect health



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Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:27:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The cost isnt the point. And, please, return to your civil self. Im sure you can debate an issue calmly.

The complaint is that people should not be forced to purchase anything. Yet, repeatedly, I have brought up this single issue... people are forced to buy ID cards all across this country to do any form of business, and now to vote.

As far as it being proof you are here legally....


California City Approves ID Cards for Residents, Including Illegal Immigrants

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525020,00.html#ixzz1O3u6TIXw

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:27:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The five Burroughs of NY City population... 8,175,133 Infant Mortality Rate for NY City... 5.9 infant deaths for every 1,000 births
Population of Austria..... 8,210,281........................... Infant Motality Rate for Austria .. 4.4 for every 1,000 births.



Oops thought tweetybelle was posting another lie about Australia, where its 10.3/1000

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:27:53 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Nope...most people understand that it flies in the face of the Constitution to require Americans to buy a product based solely on the premise that they have a pulse.


But its perfectly OK to force people to buy an ID just to vote.


You're fucking kidding, right?!!  $10 or $20 bucks for an ID, verses $2,000 to $3,000 for Health Insurance???  Oh, and ummm... you're supposed to be an American Citizen in order to "vote" -- so why shouldn't you have to show PROOF of such, as well as PROOF that you are who you say you are?!!  You have to show PROOF of who you are at the grocery store, but not to vote?!!  Yeah... right!!!  HINT:  The only people who subscribe to this line of thinking are those who (i) are NOT ELIGIBLE, or (ii) seek to benefit from those who are NOT ELIGIBLE.




Excellent post.  And who derives a benefit from people being here that are not eligible?  Liberals.  The illegal population underpins their need for ObamaCare, pensions and overtime for union employees and much more!  Are you new here?

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:28:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		same as our cellular phone systems. cost is not quality, guatemala has better cell service and price.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:29:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

The five boroughs of NYC include Brooklyn, Yonkers, Queens and Bronx, Taz.  The population you pulled up is for Manhattan.

As far as nottertail's question; the per capita calculation takes in people from all states where some people are NOTORIOUSLY less healthy than in other places.  It may also take in all patients which include illegal aliens.  You want to make a comparison?  Compare Austria to a state of equal size with a population as equally homogeneous.  That comparison would be more fair.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

Manhattan New York 1,585,873

quote:

You want to make a comparison?  Compare Austria to a state of equal size with a population as equally homogeneous.  That comparison would be more fair.


I did.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/1/2011 2:32:04 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:34:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

The five boroughs of NYC include Brooklyn, Yonkers, Queens and Bronx, Taz.  The population you pulled up is for Manhattan.

As far as nottertail's question; the per capita calculation takes in people from all states where some people are NOTORIOUSLY less healthy than in other places.  It may also take in all patients which include illegal aliens.  You want to make a comparison?  Compare Austria to a state of equal size with a population as equally homogeneous.  That comparison would be more fair.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

Manhattan New York 1,585,873

quote:

You want to make a comparison?  Compare Austria to a state of equal size with a population as equally homogeneous.  That comparison would be more fair.


I did.


no, actually you didnt.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:39:09 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geilematz

if in doubt whether illegal immigrants ruin US healthcare system:
check EU in comparison to US:

take Greece and Italy, both countries facing lots of middle Eastern, North African and central Asian illegal immigrants, Greece in addition close to bankrupcy ... nonetheless a mother giving birth runs a 8-12 times lower risk of not surviving (immigrant women included) than in the USA

and since you doubt the relevance of Ireland which has by the way a national state health care system take the UK which has the same system (plus so and so many commonwealth immigrants ...), and again better figures than the USA

what counts: the RESULTS for everyone are far better than within the US

again: it is you that pay (already) so much and get so little

dont you tell me or everyone that your health system is the best in the world - because it isn't - it is just the most expensive but that's not a sign of quality

I wish you all perfect health





Sorry, I'm not going there with you.  You keep wanting to talk about infant mortality rates as the bellweather for whether your socialized system is better than a free market system.  Here is a chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

I don't see on this chart WHY these babies died?  Is it your argument that because there is a higher child mortality rate that there is....ipso facto....worse health care in that country?  Do you think there are more meth babies born in the United States or in Iceland?  How about HIV infected babies?  Your argument requires a real leap of faith.  Taking into account that we have approximately 300 million people or more, I would say our infant mortality rate is pretty good.  Where do we rank on that chart?  Number 33?  We are number 33 and we have SUBSTANTIALLY more people than any of the 32 countries that precede us.  So...let's look at India.  Where do they fall?  Ooooops...they are down around 143.  Thanks, I'll stick with my United States of America health care any day. 

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 6/1/2011 2:47:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:39:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its the litmus locked gave, the population is almost the same.

Cant help you dont like the results.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:40:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
As far as nottertail's question; the per capita calculation takes in people from all states where some people are NOTORIOUSLY less healthy than in other places. 


Nope.  I am still working on the notoriously less healthy.  All of europe would include some pretty unhealthy motherfuckers, any population would. Perhaps you have a credible citation, as I must have missed THAT notoriously unhealthy day in class because of sloppy joes. 

You would absolutely be caught out a fool if you set out to prove that in a population like us that there were a significant percentage of less healthy people in america as compared to europe.



That would win on two fronts.  The efficiency of legislating mandatory preventative care in our population, and the absolute need for universal healthcare.

Think about it, you got time. (unless you are needing me to call you a funeral home cuz you're of some seriously unhealthy european stock) 


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:46:29 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
As far as nottertail's question; the per capita calculation takes in people from all states where some people are NOTORIOUSLY less healthy than in other places. 


Nope.  I am still working on the notoriously less healthy.  All of europe would include some pretty unhealthy motherfuckers, any population would. Perhaps you have a credible citation, as I must have missed THAT notoriously unhealthy day in class because of sloppy joes. 

You would absolutely be caught out a fool if you set out to prove that in a population like us that there were a significant percentage of less healthy people in america as compared to europe.



That would win on two fronts.  The efficiency of legislating mandatory preventative care in our population, and the absolute need for universal healthcare.

Think about it, you got time. (unless you are needing me to call you a funeral home cuz you're of some seriously unhealthy european stock) 



This post isn't worth responding to.  I never said "all of Europe" because you can't really all of Europe to the United States.  What was being compared was Austria to the United States and I said that was an unfair comparison.  You want to compare something?  Compare Austria to Maine.  Or Austria to Tennessee, which is still a little larger.  As far as places in the country being less healthy than other places, Yahoo runs stats on the most unhealthy states and the most unhealthy cities in the United States all the time.

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Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:49:40 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its the litmus locked gave, the population is almost the same.

Cant help you dont like the results.


I don't mind the results at all, because I understand the reason for them, and it has nothing to do with the quality of health care.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:54:57 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The cost isnt the point.



When it's that big of a cost difference, you bet your ass it's part of the point!


quote:


The complaint is that people should not be forced to purchase anything.



Nobody is FORCED to purchase an ID... it's merely required if you wish to vote, identify yourself, etc.  It's akin to nobody being FORCED to purchase a Driver's License, or Auto Insurance -- it's merely required if you want to drive.  *NOTE:  The IRS will not FINE you if you don't have an ID... they will, however, fine your ass if you don't have Health Insurance under Urkel's crappy healthcare bill. 


quote:


Yet, repeatedly, I have brought up this single issue... people are forced to buy ID cards all across this country to do any form of business, and now to vote.



Again, nobody is FORCED to buy an ID.  See Above.


quote:


As far as it being proof you are here legally....

California City Approves ID Cards for Residents, Including Illegal Immigrants

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525020,00.html#ixzz1O3u6TIXw



So... some stupid people think it's okay to give non-citizens the appearance/rights of being citizens, and what... that means it's right?!!  It's not... it's simply yet another THIEF getting away with a crime.  Once again, the only people who subscribe to this line of thinking are those who (i) are NOT ELIGIBLE, or (ii) seek to benefit from those who are NOT ELIGIBLE. Period.  If someone on the opposite side of the political fence farts funny, there are screams for their head... but when on the SAME side of the political fence, then there's either silence or excuses.  Hypocrisy at its finest.  I'm consistent... I don't give a shit who someone is -- if they break the law, then suffer the consequences.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:56:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Population of Maine 1,274,923 Infant Mortality Rate 6.1

Population of Tennessee 5,689,283 Tennesee Infant Mortality Rate 8.3





_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Free College. - 6/1/2011 2:59:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Nobody is FORCED to purchase an ID... it's merely required if you wish to vote, identify yourself, etc.  It's akin to nobody being FORCED to purchase a Driver's License, or Auto Insurance -- it's merely required if you want to drive.  *NOTE:  The IRS will not FINE you if you don't have an ID... they will, however, fine your ass if you don't have Health Insurance under Urkel's crappy healthcare bill. 


When was the last time you tried to cash a check without an ID? When did you open a checking account without one?

And its not just California giving out ID's.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=crmas&p=states+giving+IDs+to+illegals

quote:

Once again, the only people who subscribe to this line of thinking are those who (i) are NOT ELIGIBLE, or (ii) seek to benefit from those who are NOT ELIGIBLE.


You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how wrong you are.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 240
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