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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:15:43 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Too stupid to get a student loan... too lazy to work to contribute to their own education -- yes, both stupid and lazy.


You got studies on that? You have no knowledge that these people are stupid or lazy. But you are leading me to believe you may be.



I was wondering how far MSLA got into the higher education game.... and how she paid for it

_____________________________

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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:17:47 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

All those points and not many had much to do with wether I could pass the actual program or not.



If you don't "pass the actual program", then that's your failing, is it not?!!  Maybe I've misunderstood the above statement, but it appears as if you not only want FREE education, but a FREE pass as well?!!  But again... maybe I've misunderstood the above comment?!!




I think you misunderstood her comment.... drastically twisted it.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:20:18 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Too stupid to get a student loan... too lazy to work to contribute to their own education -- yes, both stupid and lazy.


You got studies on that?



Ummm... you want "studies" on how many people are too stupid to think, "Hmmm... I don't have the money, so maybe I should go talk to someone at the college 'Financial Aid' office, and at least get/keep a part time job to offset some expenses."  Sooooo you want studies on the stupid/lazy who lack common sense?!!  LOL



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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:22:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think you misunderstood alot.

Go back through that list and read it again. I had proven myself as a student. I had no medical training. Those three LPN's who didnt get in did, and were proven as students as well. If I had failed in one of those areas, I am sure I would never have gotten the spot. 24 students started out. 3 crashed and burned in the first two weeks. Those three LPN's were then brought in to take their spots. Beyond that, the slots were closed.

Out of 23, 11 passed to take the boards. Some failed out, some had to leave due to health or family reasons. Out of 11 who took the boards, we had 100% passing on the NCLEX.

quote:

If you don't "pass the actual program", then that's your failing, is it not?!!


Is it? Again, you are assuming alot you have no knowledge about. One got pregnant when she was in school... something she had been planning for years and thought would not come to be. So, of course she had to drop out. Its not always the "fault" of the student or the program. Life happens.

quote:

Maybe I've misunderstood the above statement, but it appears as if you not only want FREE education, but a FREE pass as well?!!


Who asked for a free pass? I worked my ass off to get my degree. Medicine eats their young then spits them back out merely for the enjoyment of watching them writhe in agony. Ask anyone who has a medical degree how their clinicals were. You may be able to fake your way through a few courses, on the job training... never.

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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:22:40 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ulia, I said I saw his point... I didnt say I agreed with him. An education is work.. its not something you are given for free.


I have had to take student loans out for living expenses because I have to live, but my education has been FREE. Of course I had to merit it, but it came fairly easy to me. I did not have to sweat much for it, but this does not mean I do not value it...There is nothing I have valued more.



If you had to take out loans to get it, it wasn't free.


Hmmmm... you see, these things called "living expenses" go on no matter what you are doing... whether you work, or go to school... life ain't free.

I have not paid for the costs of classes since my first year in community college. I have never paid for tuition. My book expenses were paid for. In the "free school" model people would still have to pay to live.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:23:17 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I see Rich's point. Being given something has no value. He is right. The value to this education is the grades... you still have to pass... is the clinicals... there is no way to fake knowledge in medicine. When was the last time anyone went to a new Dr and asked what their GPA was, or in what percentage of their class did they graduate.



So then being given a scholarship has no value and we should make sure those greedy little bastards pay their way?

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:25:51 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Too stupid to get a student loan... too lazy to work to contribute to their own education -- yes, both stupid and lazy.


You got studies on that?



Ummm... you want "studies" on how many people are too stupid to think, "Hmmm... I don't have the money, so maybe I should go talk to someone at the college 'Financial Aid' office, and at least get/keep a part time job to offset some expenses."  Sooooo you want studies on the stupid/lazy who lack common sense?!!  LOL




A part time job while studying medicine. You know little about the training, its obvious. But many do that. Its no where enough to pay for that education. It may help cover living costs. When was the last time you worked a part time job to pay your bills? I have always needed a full time one.

Financial aid? Every student has to start there, unless mommy and daddy can pay. Its amazing how your ignorance is shining through here. There are x amount of scholarships, loans, and work study programs to go around. You act like there is an unlimited supply.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:28:09 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Too stupid to get a student loan... too lazy to work to contribute to their own education -- yes, both stupid and lazy.


You got studies on that? You have no knowledge that these people are stupid or lazy. But you are leading me to believe you may be.


I was wondering how far MSLA got into the higher education game.... and how she paid for it


I was just wondering what DOLT of a person would first turn the discussion personal in nature?!! YOU WIN!!!

But to answer your stupid question (because it is a stupid question), I have a Bachelor of Science Degree, which I paid for while (i) attending college, (ii) working 30+ hours a week for someone else, and (iii) some 20+ hours per week on my own business -- ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!  And guess what... I busted my fucking ass to do it, and graduated with a 3.5 GPA.  So now, what's YOUR excuse -- not smart enough, or too lazy to have done the same?!!



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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:28:27 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I see Rich's point. Being given something has no value. He is right. The value to this education is the grades... you still have to pass... is the clinicals... there is no way to fake knowledge in medicine. When was the last time anyone went to a new Dr and asked what their GPA was, or in what percentage of their class did they graduate.



So then being given a scholarship has no value and we should make sure those greedy little bastards pay their way?



Did no one read the article? That part was addressed.

quote:

We estimate that we can make medical school free for roughly $2.5 billion per year — about one-thousandth of what we spend on health care in the United States each year. What’s more, we can offset most if not all of the cost of medical school without the government’s help by charging doctors for specialty training.


We arent talking about scholarships here, rule.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:28:32 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If someone is too stupid (or lazy) to figure out how to get an education, then they're clearly not smart enough to be a doctor, or engineer, or whatever.


Does anyone truly have an understanding of the process for getting into a school?

...

This has nothing to do with being too lazy to try. Competition for scholarships are fierce. Competition for limited seats are fierce.


Very well said. I don't know how it is in the states but we were told that 1300 students tried to get one of the 101 seats which we had available for our year and the following years the number of applicants went even higher.

I did not have a-levels as entry to uni but thankfully my 2nd apprenticeship (which was from the same field) enabled me to get in as it was seen as equal to a-levels by the uni committee.

At the end about 60 of us made it to the end...

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RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:36:38 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you don't "pass the actual program", then that's your failing, is it not?!!


Is it? Again, you are assuming alot you have no knowledge about. One got pregnant when she was in school... something she had been planning for years and thought would not come to be. So, of course she had to drop out. Its not always the "fault" of the student or the program. Life happens.


 
Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but if one "gets pregnant", is that not their fault?!!  Nobody twisted their arm into having sex, or possibly not using birth control (pill, condom, whatever), and last time I checked, abortion is an option. Yes, "life happens" as a result of choices.

Glad you broke your ass to get in... I did too (as the program was impacted and anyone who wanted in had to jump through all kinds of hurdles) -- but it was up to ME to "pass the actual program", just as it is you.  That's life.




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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:38:08 AM   
SubmitIt


Posts: 13
Joined: 7/18/2010
Status: offline 		I am from a country (Ireland) where education, including college courses, are fundamentally free. (there are registration frees, but talking sub-1000 per year, even waived if lower income).

Our workforce has become highly educated since the last 60s when secondary (ie. high school) education became free, and on into university/college, part of the reason for the growth in the Irish economy was due to having a highly educated workforce with a low cost base.

The courses are results-assigned, you compete for a place in a course, each of which has a maximum size -- all done through a single agency and a single set of exams -- the universities know nothing about the students, they tell the agency how many spaces (X), the agency looks at the results from the exams and ranks the highest results in descending order, and the top X get into the course -- then there's second choices, third choices, etc -- until all spaces are filled. Only then are the names released and linked to the colleges. Nice way of ensuring no favouritism. In Ireland if you go to 'private' college, i.e. you pay for it, there's the idea that you weren't smart enough to get into a public college/university.

If you fail a 'year' of college, it's no longer free for the year you need to repeat, you pay for that yourself, if you pass, then you can continue back into 'free' education.

Having no overhanging debt at the end is great -- it keeps the cost of wages down, and ensure a more competitive workforce than if people are struggling to pay fees.

Ireland also ranks 8th the top universities per capita in the world.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_uni_top_500_percap-universities-top-500-per-capita

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:39:15 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If you don't "pass the actual program", then that's your failing, is it not?!!


Is it? Again, you are assuming alot you have no knowledge about. One got pregnant when she was in school... something she had been planning for years and thought would not come to be. So, of course she had to drop out. Its not always the "fault" of the student or the program. Life happens.


 
Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but if one "gets pregnant", is that not their fault?!!  Nobody twisted their arm into having sex, or possibly not using birth control (pill, condom, whatever), and last time I checked, abortion is an option. Yes, "life happens" as a result of choices.

Glad you broke your ass to get in... I did too (as the program was impacted and anyone who wanted in had to jump through all kinds of hurdles) -- but it was up to ME to "pass the actual program", just as it is you.  That's life.





Not what they had been trying for years and had given up. This wasnt a case of a failed condom. She put in a good faith desire and effort into her nursing classes. Cant blame her in the least for stepping out to realize a goal she so desired. Btw, she returned the next year back into the slot she dropped from the year before.

quote:

and last time I checked, abortion is an option.


WTF????

quote:

One got pregnant when she was in school... something she had been planning for years and thought would not come to be


Im so hoping you misread that and didnt fucking lose your brain when you stumbled out of bed this morning. An abortion when someone has spent years TRYING to get pregnant????

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/29/2011 11:42:28 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:42:17 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but if one "gets pregnant", is that not their fault?!!  Nobody twisted their arm into having sex, or possibly not using birth control (pill, condom, whatever), and last time I checked, abortion is an option. Yes, "life happens" as a result of choices.

Glad you broke your ass to get in... I did too (as the program was impacted and anyone who wanted in had to jump through all kinds of hurdles) -- but it was up to ME to "pass the actual program", just as it is you.  That's life.


You see, when you are in a program things happen. People get sick, etc.... there is a difference between quitting a program because of life, and quitting a program because you can't hack it. One you can come back from, the other is almost impossible to overcome.

In my program.... one girl had to quit because she was promoted at her job, another guy quit because he decided to become an actor in Korea (don't ask me, I don't know how it went), another quit because she got a C in the first semester, and a C is a failing grade in grad school.... she probably will not be back to any grad school in the future.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:43:40 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		No julia... the girl i was referring too had tried for years to get pregnant. And now this "person" wants to suggest she should have had an abortion?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:45:54 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ulia, I said I saw his point... I didnt say I agreed with him. An education is work.. its not something you are given for free.


I have had to take student loans out for living expenses because I have to live, but my education has been FREE. Of course I had to merit it, but it came fairly easy to me. I did not have to sweat much for it, but this does not mean I do not value it...There is nothing I have valued more.



If you had to take out loans to get it, it wasn't free.


Hmmmm... you see, these things called "living expenses" go on no matter what you are doing... whether you work, or go to school... life ain't free.

I have not paid for the costs of classes since my first year in community college. I have never paid for tuition. My book expenses were paid for. In the "free school" model people would still have to pay to live.



Which pops the question into my head if you get funds from the state as we do have in Germany the child allowance.

Cause if you have a kid in Germany you can get from €164 to €195 per child per month (I think the sum goes higher by the 2nd, 3rd etc. kid).

Thats being paid for most families up until the kid turns 16 and up to 27 if the child is in education.

I am asking as for example that money helped my brother to pay his rent when he spent for ages at uni...now I did not qualify for it anymore as I was 29 when I started my studies but I did receive it (as mum passed it over to me) during my practical year which I had to do for my 2nd apprenticeship during which time I only earned peanuts...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:54:20 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No julia... the girl i was referring too had tried for years to get pregnant. And now this "person" wants to suggest she should have had an abortion?



I do not think there is shame in quitting a program for any number of reasons, including pregnancy. I have seen stranger reasons to quit.

I have also seen some pregnant women in school, but nursing programs are notoriously stressful and time consuming. It is not like other programs where one can take a semester off, or take a lighter unit load.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:57:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I
quote:

have also seen some pregnant women in school, but nursing programs are notoriously stressful and time consuming. It is not like other programs where one can take a semester off, or take a lighter unit load.


Clinicals can be nine hours long. 2 - 3 days a week... and that is outside of the class load. Its impossible to recover from childbirth and take on that type of workload within a week or two. Most nursing programs only allow a student to miss 2 classes before failing them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 11:59:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		So, to bring this back to the OP, and the article there....

This is a suggestion for a solution to the shortage of Primary Care Physicians this country is facing, and a situation that will be escalating in the upcoming years.

Anyone else have suggestions?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Free College. - 5/29/2011 12:01:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		She made the right decision.... better to quit for understandable reasons than to flunk out....Like I said, one can be overcome, the other, not so much. In other programs this would not be an issue, she would take a leave of absence and come back when she was ready... I think this is what makes medical training different from other disciplines.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 80
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