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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 5:58:28 PM   
slavejali


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I wouldn't respond MASTER Big Top Hat Goddess Empress Ma'am ...well I would probably grin and thats a response..but wouldnt respond to the email.

Hehe Your never gonna live that name down now *grin* ..well unless in my infinite wisdom I assessed it was really pissing you off, then I would cease and desist because I'm respectful of people...or you just plainly said "knock it off jali"....or Master read this post and said "knock it off jali". ...or of course if it stopped being funny and I lost interest in it *grin*

< Message edited by slavejali -- 5/14/2006 6:05:43 PM >


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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 6:15:46 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I wouldn't respond MASTER Big Top Hat Goddess Empress Ma'am ...well I would probably grin and thats a response..but wouldnt respond to the email.


So you agree that not everyone may consent or feel comfortable with having a D/s interaction with just anyone who walks up and demands one?  You do feel the need to exercise some level of judgement as to whom you consent to interact with in your submissive role?  Not responding to MASTUR hAx0R when he types to you isn't very submissive after all.     Sounds like we may actually be on the same page as far as not really wanting to give blanket permission to the entire world to act out their D/s roles with us. 


quote:

Hehe Your never gonna live that name down now *grin* ..well unless in my infinite wisdom I assessed it was really pissing you off, then I would cease and desist because I'm respectful of people...or you just plainly said "knock it off jali".


Oh no, it's not going to be that easy.  What I demand from a submissive who wishes to address me respectfully is intelligence and creativity, so you have to make up a brand new title every time.  

- God-Emperor Dominus Naja, the Mighty

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 6:16:14 PM   
littlechameleon


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If i may - after giggling hysterically, i would instantly decide he was not the intelligent, naturally strong and dominant Man i seek and more than likely, politely tell him so - before putting him on my blocked list.  Then, i would pray there was so submissive dumb enough to actually meet this power hungry cretin who has not a clue what real dominance is about.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 6:32:37 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlechameleon

If i may - after giggling hysterically, i would instantly decide he was not the intelligent, naturally strong and dominant Man i seek and more than likely, politely tell him so - before putting him on my blocked list.  Then, i would pray there was so submissive dumb enough to actually meet this power hungry cretin who has not a clue what real dominance is about.


Exactly.  You're submissive, not stupid.  I'm dominant, not a drive-through McDomme's.  You don't consent to submit - on any level - to some Mastur Bater guy who can't even spell "dominant", and I don't consent to give my energy as a dominant to selfish jerks who are trying to use me for wank material.  We need time to evaluate someone before consenting to be submissive or dominant to them.  When someone refuses to give us that time and demands instant D/s roleplaying, that's a pretty big red flag for most people.

The heart of what it is that we do is consent.  We make that special connection between two people, the spark of mutual desire that is dominance and submission, trust and power exchange.  Without that connection, without that consent, is it really D/s?  I don't think it is.  I personally tend to define it as just being an asshole.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 6:50:45 PM   
slavejali


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quote:

So you agree that not everyone may consent or feel comfortable with having a D/s interaction with just anyone who walks up and demands one? 




Dear Deva Omnipotent Supreme Ruler of Gorgeousness,

Hrmm..ok you've got me in a corner here, and I'm trying to figure a way out of it. (thinking)...

Well in that scenario you gave, it was very obvious that....the person had no regard for my relationship with Master and because of that I would assess him as just an idiot...but that was a very extreme example you gave me to play with.

If it was someone who was just very into protocal etc I would have no hesitation in falling into line with that (I do however have a major kink in regards to protocal and formalities, so that could be part of it)...I would feel absolutely comfortable in the setting....but perhaps that is getting a little off the subject....

Just generally, in a general situation, where I knew the person was lifestyle involved, I would accord them the respect of recognition of their role within it, owned or unowned. Say i met up with a submissive for coffee, I would interact with them acknowleding their submissiveness as well, I would use my knoweldge that they are a submissive or slave to communicate with them effectively..example..I would tell them anything I didnt want their Master/Mistress to know...I wouldnt expect them to break out of being a slave because they were having a coffee with me and start dissing their Master or whatever...i dont know if Im saying this right...I wouldnt have a vanilla conversation or interaction with them...I would be respecting their known lifestyle choice..and would expect them to respect mine..... doesnt mean I wouldnt express myself and share and whatever..but it would always be from the perspective of slave/submissive...cuz thats what I am...and...Ive got no idea if Im making any sense....I just dont see the need for a switch between....being *on* and *off* in regards to lifestyle interaction...it just doesnt make sense to me. (Again saying that doesnt mean I lose all sensibility or assessment capabilities etc)
.
.
.
I dunno..just had a thought, maybe my whole thoughts around this are because of my past. When I did the whole clubbing thing way back when, the thing to do then was to have a "scene" name. Basically if you used your *scene* name then you were in *role* in character, the slave. It seemed a really bizarre practice to me. On/Off/on/off..although totally acceptable and reasonable for people who just played on a casual basis...but in the situation of this topic..where people are meeting up with lifestyle slaves/submissive or lifestyle dominants/Master/Mistresses....why the need to be on or off? Why cant they just be themselves.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 5/14/2006 7:05:38 PM >


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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 7:16:27 PM   
Sinergy


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Hello A/all,

Interesting thread.  Personally, my impression of this sort of thing seems to revolve around people's use of the BDSM checklist to determine if they both enjoy oral sex.

I have always found that a bit odd since, to me, whips and chains and spankings and fun are ancillary to what this lifestyle is all about.

When do I start asserting my role?  I dunno, I dont recall ever not asserting my role.  I want to stay in at night, go dancing, go to disneyland, go to work, clean my house, whatever, odds are fairly good me and mine are going to do that.  I might feel doting (often I do) and end up doing what she suggests, but I dont give up my own power or authority to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

I'm curious about how others make the transitions between friendship and D/s-M/s roles. At what point is it ok to start assuming you can actually be Dominant or submissive in your interaction, rather than remaining politically correct? Do you wait until you've sat down in a clinical fashion and agreed?



Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 8:34:13 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
Dear Deva Omnipotent Supreme Ruler of Gorgeousness,


Oooh, you're doing good.  LOL

quote:

Hrmm..ok you've got me in a corner here, and I'm trying to figure a way out of it. (thinking)...


I thought slaves liked being put into corners?  Be sure your nose is touching the corner, now. 

quote:

Say i met up with a submissive for coffee, I would interact with them acknowleding their submissiveness as well, I would use my knoweldge that they are a submissive or slave to communicate with them effectively..example..I would tell them anything I didnt want their Master/Mistress to know...I wouldnt expect them to break out of being a slave because they were having a coffee with me and start dissing their Master or whatever...i dont know if Im saying this right...


Well, of course, likewise.  If you and I met, I would expect you to refer to your Master with respect.  If I was occupied in conversation with him and wanted a drink fetched, I might ask him if he would do me the courtesy of having his slave render us service. What I would not do, particularly if we met without your Master present or if you did not have an owner, would be to demand you behave submissively towards me without being sure of your consent level first.  I feel that would be an uncomfortable overstepping of bounds.  I don't like it when somebody does it to me, and I don't do it to other people. 


quote:

I wouldnt have a vanilla conversation or interaction with them...I would be respecting their known lifestyle choice..and would expect them to respect mine.....


I do respect your lifestyle choice, which is why I would not get in your face and try to make you submit to me if you didn't belong to me.  I'm quite comfortable and confident being my own dominant self, without feeling any need to constantly strut around wearing a Domly-Dom hat.  I ask people to respect me and my lifestyle choices by *not* involving me in D/s interactions without the courtesy of consent.  I may well get involved some degree of D/s interaction on a social basis, but I am more likely to do so in order to support and respect someone else's D/s relationship than to go fishing for one myself. 

quote:

I just dont see the need for a switch between....being *on* and *off* in regards to lifestyle interaction...it just doesnt make sense to me.


I'm not entirely sure I understand.   I'm always sexually oriented towards men, which is to say I'm a heterosexual femdom when I'm being my birth gender and a gay male daddy top when I'm honoring that side of myself.  I don't have an on or off switch that changes my sexual orientation (though gender is a different story).  But I do not need to constantly run around grabbing guy's asses or ripping their clothes off.  That kind of behavior might make a wait in line at the post office considerably less boring, but I don't think it's a particularly good idea.  

Lord Master Naja, Supreme Tyrant and Dictator-For-Life

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 8:50:31 PM   
slavejali


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Dear Master of Malicious Behavior and Tyrannical Sadist Extraordinaire Maam,

hehe I just wanted to reply so I could make up another name  I think we agree, I'm not talking about being overtly sexual with anyone you first meet, just that I feel its simply ok to be in dominant and submissive "roles" (which arent roles to me as in play acting,  so I dont know the appropriate word) when people meet up.


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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 9:11:05 PM   
ArchangelMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I wouldn't respond MASTER Big Top Hat Goddess Empress Ma'am ...well I would probably grin and thats a response..but wouldnt respond to the email.


So you agree that not everyone may consent or feel comfortable with having a D/s interaction with just anyone who walks up and demands one?  You do feel the need to exercise some level of judgement as to whom you consent to interact with in your submissive role?  Not responding to MASTUR hAx0R when he types to you isn't very submissive after all.     Sounds like we may actually be on the same page as far as not really wanting to give blanket permission to the entire world to act out their D/s roles with us. 


Damn and I was thinking of changing my screen name to MASTUR hAx0R. As a submissive profile.

quote:


quote:

Hehe Your never gonna live that name down now *grin* ..well unless in my infinite wisdom I assessed it was really pissing you off, then I would cease and desist because I'm respectful of people...or you just plainly said "knock it off jali".


Oh no, it's not going to be that easy.  What I demand from a submissive who wishes to address me respectfully is intelligence and creativity, so you have to make up a brand new title every time.  

- God-Emperor Dominus Naja, the Mighty



You know Miss Naja, I'd worship you.


_____________________________

"Open up your mind; Let your fantasies unwind." -The Phantom, Phantom of the Opera

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -Toulouse-Lautrec, Moulin Rouge

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 9:20:23 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Dear Master of Malicious Behavior and Tyrannical Sadist Extraordinaire Maam,


Hee hee.  You must have been watching at the play party last night.

quote:

I think we agree, I'm not talking about being overtly sexual with anyone you first meet, just that I feel its simply ok to be in dominant and submissive "roles" (which arent roles to me as in play acting,  so I dont know the appropriate word) when people meet up.


Maybe we're defining "in roles" differently.  When I meet people and talk to them, whether they are from the kink community or just some of my gaming buddies, I am relaxed and confident.  I don't change much if at all whether I'm talking to kinky people or straight people.  I'm still the same person, easygoing and friendly but also strong and assertive.  I'd say that I come across as dominant or "pack alpha" in posture and language and general social interaction, but I don't do any overt D/s interaction with anyone unless I have some level of D/s relationship or consent with that specific person. 

I really don't feel that I need to dominate other people in order to be a dominant person.  My strength and my dominance does not depend on other people. It is more inwardly focused than outwardly focused.  I choose to be courtly and well mannered because I wish to live up to my own romantic notions of what a Master is.  Is this my "dominant role"?  Depends on how you define it.  Mostly it's just plain old me. 

I lift weights.  I'm hardly a competition level bodybuilder, but I haven't been completely wasting my time on the weight bench either.  I'm physically strong and confident in my strength.  However I would consider it not only tasteless but the mark of an insecure person to go around flexing my biceps in other people's faces before we were even introduced.  So I don't do that.  But not flexing in public doesn't mean the muscles aren't there.  It just means I'm not an annoying asshole.  Okay, the last point is arguable, but you know what I mean. 

Sir Naja the Red Handed, Official Spanker of Bottoms

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 9:22:24 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael

You know Miss Naja, I'd worship you.



Cool.  Let's do a roleplaying scene that involves a creative use of your Darth Tater.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 9:25:21 PM   
ArchangelMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael

You know Miss Naja, I'd worship you.



Cool.  Let's do a roleplaying scene that involves a creative use of your Darth Tater.



You have no idea how much that idea turns me on. Wait, maybe you do.


_____________________________

"Open up your mind; Let your fantasies unwind." -The Phantom, Phantom of the Opera

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -Toulouse-Lautrec, Moulin Rouge

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 9:41:30 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael

You have no idea how much that idea turns me on. Wait, maybe you do.



Okay.  You can be a 14 year old in a naughty chat room posing as Mastur hAx0R.  Your stern babysitter comes up behind you at the keyboard and catches you at this reprehensible behavior, forcing you to apologize to all of your online Gorean slave girls for being a faker.  The babysitter checks some IP addresses and finds out that two of your three slave girls are actually a 45 year old guy in Milwaukee named Ed who lives in his mom's basement.   Utterly mortified, you submit to the rest of your punishment, which involves the lightsaber attachment from your Darth Tater, a leather cock ring and a really copious quantity of lube. 


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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 10:14:00 PM   
catize


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quote:

 

See, that is exactly what I dont get, that means to me people are incapable of expressing qualities and interests, having a conversation even...unless they are not being who they are, dominant or submissive.....that means to me, that the domination and submission is the *roleplay* and the vanilla non dominant or submissive is the *real* person who can be intelligent and sharing and insightful...and at some point..that real vanilla person makes a decision..hey this person is ok to be with..lets play. Whereas....I see it like..the dominant or submissive personality is the real personality and is capable of communication and getting to know someone and isnt a role. Damn I hope this is making sense. I'm not meaning you have to submit to someone totally before they even know you, just that I dont get the reason behind having to act some other way when interacting with someone else from this lifestyle disposition. 


I politely take umbrage to your suggestion that because I am not submissive in all parts of my life I only roleplay submission.  When I agree to submit to a dominant I take my obligations very seriously. 
As Najakcharmer has pointed out, it is a matter of consent.  I do not consent to give authority over me to all and sundry, I am very selective and I do not believe that negates my submissive nature at all.  
Just because a dominant and a submissive have a conversation together does not imply there is a D/s dynamic between them. 
You seem to suggest that if a person is multi-faceted in their style of interaction, their submission or dominance is only a game.  It is more than a 'kink' for me, it is more than a game.  When I have agreed to submit to a dominant, I honor him with my submission to him and consider myself on equal terms with everyone else. 


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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/14/2006 10:17:06 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Peach and I went the other way: not from friends to master and slave, but from master and slave to friends.  And although there's no intractable tension between the two roles, sometimes she needs to be reminded that she's not just my friend, she's my slave.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/15/2006 12:22:41 AM   
slavejali


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quote:


Original: catise
I politely take umbrage to your suggestion that because I am not submissive in all parts of my life I only roleplay submission.  When I agree to submit to a dominant I take my obligations very seriously. 


I didnt mean to offend you, I dont think I'm getting my point across very well.....I'm not submissive in all parts of my life either.....going over what Ive said I dont think there is anything additional I can add to clarify it. Will think about it some more.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/15/2006 1:19:31 AM   
Reflectivesoul


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quote:


quote:


Original: catise
I politely take umbrage to your suggestion that because I am not submissive in all parts of my life I only roleplay submission.  When I agree to submit to a dominant I take my obligations very seriously. 



I didnt mean to offend you, I dont think I'm getting my point across very well.....I'm not submissive in all parts of my life either.....going over what Ive said I dont think there is anything additional I can add to clarify it. Will think about it some more.

_____________________________


I think the biggest difference is sub versus slave..... not who is more submissive by where, when, how they submit. I think that too is a big difference that is not clearly understood by many either online or in real time.
 
To the OP: Always always be yourself. Dominance isnt a he said she said he does she does kind of thing. Its is who you are, dont hide that dont repress that, but most importantly dont shove it down someones throat either. Just because someone is a Dominant doesnt mean they have to jump off with do this or do that's. Dominance flows from a true Dominant into everything our lives involve. I cant agree more with "the Miss, Ma'am, Sir" of many names * chuckles* that just because someone is a Dominant doesnt mean they have to be Dominating someone every moment.
 
As for a first meet.... I feel that by someone getting to know you enough for you to allow a personal interaction with them, they have already accepted the fact that you are Dominant they are submissive and so their consent is given when they agree to the meet that you are not going to make them your equal. Now this doesnt mean grossly exploit their submission with panty checks or by assuming that because they have consented to meeting that you can just throw them over the table at Denny's and paddle their ass. Common sense should always be the guide.
 
Also too I'm sorry if this next thing raises and feathers but I have found that it is the hardest for the ProDominas to move into the lifestyle roles. I dont know if maybe in part it is because they are used to having to be the "on your knees now, slut" all the time because its what a customer pays them for, so they set up some kind of unrealistic view for a submissive that isnt into paying for their kinks, or what it is but I have seen time and time again that Pro's searching for fulltime 24/7 end up disappointed the most. There is a very real world of difference between those two worlds ( atleast in My eyes).  Thats not to say that a Pro gone lifestyle is bad in any way shape or form, just that theres a different set of rules as far as interactions between the Pro world and the non. In the Pro world you can safely expect to shove a submissive into a mold and say fit this and they have to, but in the lifestyle world no two submissives are ever going to fit demand mold, because they are before and above all else human beings with needs and feelings, goals and dreams, wants and desires. And unlike the client's who are paying to get their rocks off, most genuine submissives dont view the BDSM as a sexual exploitation, its about the connections made and the level of trust and commitment made, not I'm Dominant and you're slave so you better just be happy that I let your sorry ass hang around me. There is a level of respect thats shared between a Dominant and submissive that encircles life in general and that submissives needs patience, understanding, love, adoration, and yes rewards for their services, and not just a fuck you I own you you'll damn well do as I say when I say, because with an attitude like that all you are going to get back is a fuck you bitch you dont own me anymore. And that by the behaviour is what you would deserve.
( sorry one of my soap boxes.... )
 
In addressing the what is Under Consideration and how does it work....
I ahve a bit of experience with this as I have met several people from online and have had a few of them that I wanted to take to different levels and so they were under Me. Consideration is a time period that allows a submissive to basically strut thier stuff. They have earned this spot because the Dominant generally feels they would like to take the relationship out of a friendship stage and into something more. It gives the Dominant the right to control and to give tasks, however it doesnt give complete control. This period of time is basically like a vanilla courtship or a "show me you're interested and what you can do for me" phase, with the known intention that a collaring would be the next step, IF and ONLY IF the submissive meets the requirements set forth by the Prospective Dominant. In an even more broken down state its basically a trial period to see how compatable a Dominant is with a submissive or slave. It gives them the needed time as D/ss to so to speak feel eachother out. This does in my experience help keep the so names velcro collars down to a bare minimum as we can never really be sure what will come of any relationship and sometimes years after a collaring the relationship fails, but its always being thrown back as that person velcro collared someone else.
 
If I have stated anything that has managed to ruffle feathers please know that I meant no intentional personal digs at anyone, if I wanted to attack someone I would hop in their e-mail and do it to their face ( or sort of lol) I have stated my oppinions and they are mine and mine alone, no one has to agree with anything, I just threw my own views in just as many others have.
 
I also want to say that oppinions are like assholes, everyone has one and sometimes they stink.

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/15/2006 3:00:03 AM   
shivvy


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i'm told i'm naturally submissive, and to be honest, i'm quite comfortable with other people taking a lead role. i think it all boils down to the appropriate level of dominance. i mean, when i'm out with my bf, he does all the ordering for us, and sometimes he makes decisions for me, without refering to me. we've only been going out for 5 weeks, but we're both comfortable with that. he first done it on our first date.
 
we have a vanilla relationship at the minute, but i'm working on him

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/15/2006 3:57:04 AM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:


Original: catise
I politely take umbrage to your suggestion that because I am not submissive in all parts of my life I only roleplay submission.  When I agree to submit to a dominant I take my obligations very seriously. 


I didnt mean to offend you, I dont think I'm getting my point across very well.....I'm not submissive in all parts of my life either.....going over what Ive said I dont think there is anything additional I can add to clarify it. Will think about it some more.

Thank you; <smiles>

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: At what point is it ok to start expressing your role? - 5/15/2006 4:48:31 AM   
feastie


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I am naturally submissive, I have been submissive my entire life.  But that doesn't mean I allow strangers to dominate me.

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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