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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:12:42 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

Has anyone else gone for a job, had the interview go exceedingly well, then, after all is said and done, they ask if your bilingual? No mention of it being required or even desired in the ad. Not to mention the dozens that ARE listed as bilingual only...isn't that discrimination?


See, I was looking at the part I bolded, which indicated to me that it wasn't in the job description...

Which wasn't the part that talked about discrimination. Whole different sentence, LC

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:15:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Not sure how laws work where you are, here, give an inch, they demand a mile. The patient showed up with an underage child, and insisted upon being seen, the child used as an interpreter. No health care provider is going to do that. This woman claimed no knowledge of English, yet knew enough to file a discrimination suit with the Attorney General's Office.

Im sure this is a man who wanted her business. Its a shame they have to make the stipulation to hire bilingual people simply to avoid lawsuits like this. Not all businesses think like that, but many do. Arizona decided businesses dont have to hire translators, which is what someone who is bilingual would be. Would be nice if that was nation wide.

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:18:37 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not sure how laws work where you are, here, give an inch, they demand a mile. The patient showed up with an underage child, and insisted upon being seen, the child used as an interpreter. No health care provider is going to do that. This woman claimed no knowledge of English, yet knew enough to file a discrimination suit with the Attorney General's Office.

Im sure this is a man who wanted her business. Its a shame they have to make the stipulation to hire bilingual people simply to avoid lawsuits like this. Not all businesses think like that, but many do. Arizona decided businesses dont have to hire translators, which is what someone who is bilingual would be. Would be nice if that was nation wide.

I am not going to get into a discussion with you about the ins and outs of requiring an interpreter or how much 'they' (we; I come from a family almost entirely composed of immigrants) will take if you give 'them' (us) an inch.

But the link you posted has nothing to do with whether or not an employer requiring the particular skill of speaking a second language is discrimination.

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:40:49 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline 		Clarification.....

Yes, I feel that to advertise for someone that speaks a specific language, is discrimination of a sorts.   It may be legal, and they are actively seeking what they want, however...whats the difference between this, and age or sex specific?   English is the language of this country and when I travel abroad, I am expected to learn the language of where I am visiting.  I carried a dictionary (English to Spanish) while visiting Spain, and if I chose to take up residence there, I would speak the language of that country fluently.  



I counted 18 advertisements for various positions in the local paper, 8, demanded Bilingual applicants only.   If English is our language, there should be no need.  Companies will say they have no way to communicate with those who only speak Spanish, so they must hire Bilingual.   I say, let those who take up residence in this country, learn the language.  

I didn't think what I wrote was confusing, many got it.   Hopefully this will help :)  





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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:43:38 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

It may be legal, and they are actively seeking what they want, however...whats the difference between this, and age or sex specific?  

Are you for real?

Speaking another language is a skill. Your age or your sex are not skills.

Discrimination is choosing between candidates based on things they can't help/change (their age, their sex, orientation, race, any disabilities they might have...). I really cannot believe that you see your inability to speak another language as being in that category.

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:51:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not sure how laws work where you are, here, give an inch, they demand a mile. The patient showed up with an underage child, and insisted upon being seen, the child used as an interpreter. No health care provider is going to do that. This woman claimed no knowledge of English, yet knew enough to file a discrimination suit with the Attorney General's Office.

Im sure this is a man who wanted her business. Its a shame they have to make the stipulation to hire bilingual people simply to avoid lawsuits like this. Not all businesses think like that, but many do. Arizona decided businesses dont have to hire translators, which is what someone who is bilingual would be. Would be nice if that was nation wide.

I am not going to get into a discussion with you about the ins and outs of requiring an interpreter or how much 'they' (we; I come from a family almost entirely composed of immigrants) will take if you give 'them' (us) an inch.

But the link you posted has nothing to do with whether or not an employer requiring the particular skill of speaking a second language is discrimination.


"They" is anyone... dont read a racial bias into that. They could be the good ole boy down the street who feels because he was riding on a John Deer tractor, he wasnt drinking and driving.



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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:52:35 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		It's business. If having employees who speak English AND Spanish doubles your client base, it also doubles your income.

And our country's attitudes being what they are, no one is ever going to be required to learn English. It might hurt someone's feelings

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:56:39 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Clarification.....

Yes, I feel that to advertise for someone that speaks a specific language, is discrimination of a sorts.   It may be legal, and they are actively seeking what they want, however...whats the difference between this, and age or sex specific?   English is the language of this country and when I travel abroad, I am expected to learn the language of where I am visiting.  I carried a dictionary (English to Spanish) while visiting Spain, and if I chose to take up residence there, I would speak the language of that country fluently.  



I counted 18 advertisements for various positions in the local paper, 8, demanded Bilingual applicants only.   If English is our language, there should be no need.  Companies will say they have no way to communicate with those who only speak Spanish, so they must hire Bilingual.   I say, let those who take up residence in this country, learn the language.  

I didn't think what I wrote was confusing, many got it.   Hopefully this will help :)  






I happen to disagree with that, age and sex is nothing you can learn, a language is, it's a skill and if a job requires a skill, it's not discriminating, I mean you wouldn't find it discriminating if somebody is looking for a cook who specializes in certain dishes, would you? Now if your business requires the person to speak another language as well, you make that a requirement and people who don't fulfill that requirement simply don't need to reply and waste their time and the employer's time...

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:57:12 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thank you, VC!

MANY jobs involve working with overseas clients. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for an employee that speaks German if that person has to work with a German speaking staff, or whatever. An employer can ask for ANY skill set. It's not discrimination until they ask for a six foot tall redhead who drives a Volvo AND speaks German.

There are many spanish speakers in my area, and what seems like every language on the Indian subcontinent. There are folks serving those niche markets, you's better believe.

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 4:58:45 PM   
DeviantMan


Posts: 131
Joined: 5/27/2011
From: Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

It may be legal, and they are actively seeking what they want, however...whats the difference between this, and age or sex specific?  

Are you for real?

Speaking another language is a skill. Your age or your sex are not skills.

Discrimination is choosing between candidates based on things they can't help/change (their age, their sex, orientation, race, any disabilities they might have...). I really cannot believe that you see your inability to speak another language as being in that category.


What do you mean sex is not a skill???? I always thought sex involved a huge amount of skill, or we'd all be the best lovers, and life would have no fun whatsoever....

And, to anyone still didn't get it, it was a joke. I love creating crazy little distractions when things are getting a bit too erious and/or heavy

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:00:59 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantMan

What do you mean sex is not a skill???? I always thought sex involved a huge amount of skill, or we'd all be the best lovers, and life would have no fun whatsoever....

And, to anyone still didn't get it, it was a joke. I love creating crazy little distractions when things are getting a bit too erious and/or heavy

Brevity, dude, it's all about the brevity. You should have said:

What do you mean, sex is not a skill?!?

...and left it at that.

Much snappier.

(I don't have to tell people I'm kidding. See?)

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:04:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Would anyone consider is discrimination if an ad stated someone to be bilingual, and the other language they are seeking is never specified until you go to the interview?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:05:01 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Non, je n'ai aucune probleme avec des emplois bilangues.

In other words, maybe being bilingual isn't a requirement for the job, maybe its just a plus. You know, you and another equally qualified applicant are on the short list...well why not take the bilingual one. It isn't discrimination, even if it is a requirement and wasn't stated in the ad. If its a requirement of the job it isn't discrimination. Just like a job that requires dressing and bathing old ladies can be limited to women without it being considered discriminatory.

And you don't have to learn a 2nd language to get a job, you need to learn a language to get that job. You say you're over 50, so you've had plenty of time to learn that 2nd language. Don't blame them because you never took the opportunity to do so before.


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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:07:11 PM   
windchymes


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Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Would anyone consider is discrimination if an ad stated someone to be bilingual, and the other language they are seeking is never specified until you go to the interview?


Not discrimination, just neglect on the part of the one who composed the ad.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:10:41 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

An employer can ask for ANY skill set. It's not discrimination until they ask for a six foot tall redhead who drives a Volvo AND speaks German.


lol... I don't disagree with your overall point, but technically, non of the items you mention above are protected by law.  In essence, I could advertise for a six foot tall redhead who drives a Volvo and speaks German... and I would not be guilty of illegal discrimination.

Now... if I specified whether that redhead should be male or female... that would be illegal. 

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/31/2011 5:23:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:12:59 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I thought the height thing was illegal too. No?

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:14:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Well no, that would depend on the job...if you were say, applying for an acting or other stagejob, they could specify.

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RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:16:07 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Unfortunately.....quite often.

I'm planning on taking some Spanish classes soon so that I'll be able to find a job when I move. In my line of work it's almost a necessity. The job I am currently at I run into this problem on a daily basis since the majority of my city is Hispanic and very few speak English and the majority who come into my office are Hispanic. On a daily basis I'm either trying to explain to the person that I don't speak Spanish and they will need to bring someone along who can interpret or calling upstairs to obtain one if they are free and willing to do me a favor. Most times they find it an annoyance to help our office.

I know it's going to be necessity for me to be able to speak another language if I ever want to find another job.


I have to wonder how this same scenario would play out in France.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:18:57 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

English is the language of this country
No it isn't.
quote:

If English is our language
Again, no its not.

Get it straight, there is NO official language in the U.S. The majority of people there speak English (at this point at any rate), but that doesn't make it the official language. People are free to speak and live in any language they want in the U.S., there is no law requiring them to learn any language. You are from Washington state, which not only does not have an official language, it passed a English Plus resolution back in 89. So you are completely wrong and have absolutely no basis on which to base a claim of discrimination on the State or Federal level.
The basic ignorance of their own laws of the average American is astounding.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: I didn't need a passport to get here...... - 5/31/2011 5:19:00 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I thought the height thing was illegal too. No?


Nope... not directly.

A complaint could be made of disparate impact, but there are no guarantees that the petitioner would prevail. 

You'd be surprised how little is actually protected when it comes to discrimination in hiring practices.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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