RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs

RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 5:45:44 AM)
It'd raise some very handy tax revenues as well, and if you started growing the shit domestically, the money wouldn't be going straight out of your country to repulsive vermin. Both would be good things, surely?

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 5:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It'd raise some very handy tax revenues as well, and if you started growing the shit domestically, the money wouldn't be going straight out of your country to repulsive vermin. Both would be good things, surely? Don't think money should be a factor in a decision, health and issues surrounding criminality should. Ultimately some drugs (cept soft types) are extremely addictive/damaging. Maybe its coincidental but haven't heard many ex-junkies or folks from deprived backgrounds promoting decriminalisation. Can be da opposite sound heard in some communities.

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 5:57:17 AM)
William Burroughs and Keith Richards aren't ex junkies, then? Both have made a lot of decriminalisation/legalisation noise over the years.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:04:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead William Burroughs and Keith Richards aren't ex junkies, then? Both have made a lot of decriminalisation/legalisation noise over the years. Yes but they are (or were) also "artists" [:D] and surely not from working class backgrounds where much of this affliction takes place!

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:20:42 AM)
Burroughs isn't. Richards is from a prole background originally, though. (Him and Charlie Watts are the only two Stones who were, rather than being slightly posh dropouts like Jagger or Brian Jones.) Hard as it may be to credit you do get a few 'artists" emerging from working class backgrounds. As for health issues, one of Burroughs main arguments for legalisation was that heroin (if free of unpleasant impurities) was actually a lot less harmful for prolonged use than booze. Watching his son drink himself into an early grave with cirrhosis probably had a lot to do with that, of course. There are actually soft drugs that appear to do a lot more damage than hard ones. Dope's carcinogenic properties are a case in point.

Marc2b -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:32:39 AM)
The only negative I can see in legalizing drugs is that the price of weed is affordable now, but let the government start taxing it and... well... look what they did to the price of cigs, man. Other than that, though, I can't see any real objections.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:33:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Burroughs isn't. Richards is from a prole background originally, though. (Him and Charlie Watts are the only two Stones who were, rather than being slightly posh dropouts like Jagger or Brian Jones.) Hard as it may be to credit you do get a few 'artists" emerging from working class backgrounds. Richards has been described as lower middle-class. Probably would have been rare for working class to go to art college in those days where some of da Stonez met up. Didn't say artists don't come from working class backgrounds, rathe rmany artists have a different morality most of which is BS in my humble opinion. [8\|] quote: As for health issues, one of Burroughs main arguments for legalisation was that heroin (if free of unpleasant impurities) was actually a lot less harmful for prolonged use than booze. Watching his son drink himself into an early grave with cirrhosis probably had a lot to do with that, of course. There are actually soft drugs that appear to do a lot more damage than hard ones. Dope's carcinogenic properties are a case in point. Hard liquor is one thing, yeah its highly damaging. Yet many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging. Sayin' one is as bad as the other isn't a reason to legalise in my opinion. Dope has issues with mental illness but da question has to be to what extent as all drugs have some negative impact.

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:42:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Richards has been described as lower middle-class. So has John Lennon. (Art school used to be where you went over here if you'd made such a fuck up of your exams you were unemployable, btw.)

tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 7:31:08 AM)
quote: WOTF Hard liquor is one thing, yeah its highly damaging. Yet many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging. In Australia in 2003: c15,500 tobacco deaths attributed to tobacco c1,100 deaths attributed to alcohol c280 deaths attributed to heroin/polydrug use.* AFAIK these figures are pretty typical of Western countries. If we can agree that nothing is more damaging to health than death, then your claim that "many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging [as alcohol]" is wildly inaccurate. Tobacco is by far the most damaging drug going. Alcohol consumption causes almost 4 times as many deaths as heroin/polydrug use. Many times more people are addicted to alcohol than any illicit drug. By way of contrast 0 deaths were caused by cannabis use. * www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=6442459808

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 7:50:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: WOTF Hard liquor is one thing, yeah its highly damaging. Yet many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging. In Australia in 2003: c15,500 tobacco deaths attributed to tobacco c1,100 deaths attributed to alcohol c280 deaths attributed to heroin/polydrug use.* AFAIK these figures are pretty typical of Western countries. If we can agree that nothing is more damaging to health than death, then your claim that "many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging [as alcohol]" is wildly inaccurate. Tobacco is by far the most damaging drug going. Alcohol consumption causes almost 4 times as many deaths as heroin/polydrug use. Many times more people are addicted to alcohol than any illicit drug. By way of contrast 0 deaths were caused by cannabis use. I find it's a good idea to acquaint myself with the relevant facts before making grandiose claims WOTF. May I recommend the same course of action to you? Tweak I reckon your figures are correct as its similar elsewhere. [;)] Where I disagree is with da impact of decriminalising hard drugs. Reckon it would be reasonable to assume substances that are even more addictive will have huge social and health implications. With addiction (where there is not mortality) there is still damage to quality of life and health.

tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: WOTF Hard liquor is one thing, yeah its highly damaging. Yet many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging. In Australia in 2003: c15,500 tobacco deaths attributed to tobacco c1,100 deaths attributed to alcohol c280 deaths attributed to heroin/polydrug use.* AFAIK these figures are pretty typical of Western countries. If we can agree that nothing is more damaging to health than death, then your claim that "many hard drugs are more addictive and just as or almost as damaging [as alcohol]" is wildly inaccurate. Tobacco is by far the most damaging drug going. Alcohol consumption causes almost 4 times as many deaths as heroin/polydrug use. Many times more people are addicted to alcohol than any illicit drug. By way of contrast 0 deaths were caused by cannabis use. I find it's a good idea to acquaint myself with the relevant facts before making grandiose claims WOTF. May I recommend the same course of action to you? Tweak I reckon your figures are correct as its similar elsewhere. [;)] Where I disagree is with da impact of decriminalising hard drugs. Reckon it would be reasonable to assume substances that are even more addictive will have huge social and health implications. With addiction (where there is not mortality) there is still damage to quality of life and health. There is no need to assume anything at all. Assuming things is guaranteed route to error. This area has been researched to the nth degree. Virtually all the studies point in the same direction. What you do need to do is, after thoroughly researching the issue, is to define your goals. The area can be seen as a health issue, a legal issue, a moral issue ...... Each view will generate a different goal. For me it's primarily a health issue and the goal of public policy should be about maximising public health and minimising deaths. If you agree with this perspective, it makes no sense whatsoever to maintain totally discredited policies such as prohibition. The only question is: what form should decriminalisation take?

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:13:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle There is no need to assume anything at all. Assuming things is guaranteed route to error. This area has been researched to the nth degree. Virtually all the studies point in the same direction. What you do need to do is, after thoroughly researching the issue, is to define your goals. The area can be seen as a health issue, a legal issue, a moral issue ...... Each view will generate a different goal. For me it's primarily a health issue and the goal of public policy should be about maximising public health and minimising deaths. If you agree with this perspective, it makes no sense whatsoever to maintain totally discredited policies such as prohibition. The only question is what form should decriminalisation take? Tweak it is reasonable to assume that drugs like cocaine/crack, ecstacy etc. will have higher incidents of addiction than alcohol or fags. I don't support complete prohibition as my earlier posts make clear, there is a case to be made bout pot...

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:23:02 AM)
Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:37:12 AM)
Use your common sense. People who want to legalize drugs want to dumb down the population so they can control the masses. Just like what they have done with all the politically correct news channels, and liberal slanted sitcoms. You are slowly being brainwashed to accept total government control. http://tv.yahoo.com/blog/tv-executives-admit-in-taped-interviews-that-hollywood-pushes-a-liberal-agenda--3086

kdsub -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:41:41 AM)
I so much agree...legalize all drugs…Then we can be rid of the weak minded fools of this world that can’t live in reality. At least the pain and suffering of those that love them will be short lived. Butch

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:43:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls People who want to legalize drugs want to dumb down the population so they can control the masses They're doing that perfectly well already by keeping you drunk, full of e numbers and high fructose corn syrup, and gasping for a fag, you'll find.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 9:10:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Use your common sense. Yes please do for once. There is a certain portion of the population which is going to use and/or become addicted. That has never changed. The War on Drugs has done nothing to change this. What the War on Drugs has created is the drug trafficking and the drug violence. Gangs have made fortunes selling drugs. This has given us much of the violence we have in places. The violence and the drug trade have created problems far beyond what drug use does. We flush tons of money down the drain with the War on Drugs. Chasing dealers and overflowing the prisons. I mean prohibition worked so well we went for round 2 with drugs. Amazingly it hasn't really worked any better. But who could have seen that coming?

kdsub -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 9:12:55 AM)
sooo.... all the criminals of this world will disappear when drugs are made legal.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 9:58:19 AM)
Where did I say that? But if you can walk in the corner store and buy it then does the turf wars and shootings on the corners over who does the selling continue? Do we continue with armed gangs who purchase ever powerful weapons with drug money? I could on but I think you get the point.

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 10:02:42 AM)
No, but the vast profits that are made selling illicit intoxicants won't mostly be going to criminal organisations in south america and south east asia who are in the habit of destabilising the local governments by having members of the judiciary and legislature bumped off whenever they take an interest in these entrepreneurs activities. It isn't like there's any such thing as "fair trade" cocaine, put it that way.

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