RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos)

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RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 5:58:14 AM

MzReel4Real

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/13/2011
From: Michigan
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I work with animals...it truly is my job. I tend to favor animals over humans...they are easier to deal with. I am so sorry your livestock was attacked, that was wrong on every level. After the dog(s) came the first time and you had fence to repair, did you go to the owner and tell him/her? Did you tell them how concerned you were...what a huge issue this is? If not shame on you for not being the "responsible" one in this instance. I happen to have one of the breeds you label as "bad".....and I won't enter that entire debate. Bad? I mean really like there are bad breeds of people? Oh my! It is all about responsible training, understanding the breeds, and just being flippin responsible. I am tired of idiots being allowed to own________________________________________, insert what the hell ever here, be it children, guns, dogs, just because and there is no measure of intelligence or responsibility.

Stepping aside from that now......along with the antibiotic you might want to wash the wounds with peroxide cut with water as that will help them flushed you can let it run down the wounds and not have to worry about rinsing...also as you know fly protection is very important and peroxide will help with this too as will a little vinegar when they are a tad more healed as it burns like thunder.

Patricia

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Post #: 41

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 10:02:23 AM

MaxsBoy

Posts: 766
Status: offline

Barelynangel, I see what you're saying and agree with you. No one should take on a dog without getting to know a bit about the breed, and the individual. Pit bulls, for example, were bred to fight bulls and other dogs. It would be irresponsible not to recognize the potential for high prey drive and dog aggression. Even if you pick up a young pit with no signs of any kind of aggression (like my new boy) that doesn't mean it won't show up later. A responsible dog owner who truly cares about his/her animal will take that possibility into account. My Digger is a good boy, but he is starting obedience classes immediately, and he will never be let loose with strange dogs in an unpredictible environment like a dog park, or allowed to run free around the neighborhood. Because if something bad were to happen in either situation, it would be Digger who would suffer for it.

High prey drive and dog aggression are manageable, but they need to be, you know, managed. You can't just stick your head in the sand and say "my Fluffy Wuffy wouldn't ever hurt anything!" and then act shocked when your completely untrained Fluffy bites another dog while your back is turned.

Edited to fix a run-on sentence.

< Message edited by MaxsBoy -- 6/12/2011 10:03:35 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 11:26:47 AM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

Sanity, if you do indeed decide to shoot these dogs I suggest that you bury them deeply & obscurely so that you won't get caught for it. Because in some places destroying their dogs no matter what they have done .....

I am curious as to where you are speaking of. If the dogs were attacking a young child and he killed the dogs to protect the child, where is it that he would be charged for doing so?????

You say "no matter what they have done" so I am asking the question of what if the victim is a human child and he acted to protect that child's life? Please provide me with references to actual laws that say he can't kill the dogs to save the life of a child.

Obviously I misspoke & wasn't referring to self-defense. Please oh please forgive me.

Can I come spank you for it???? ^_^

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)

Post #: 43

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 11:53:48 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzReel4Real

I am tired of idiots being allowed to own________________________________________, insert what the hell ever here, be it children, guns, dogs, just because and there is no measure of intelligence or responsibility.

Yes please!!! Pretty pretty please?

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Post #: 44

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 11:57:50 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

fast reply

When I was a teenager I had a really sweet cat, and we would let her out in the yard when we were outside with her. My mom was doing yard work and a group of three dogs came up into the yard chased down my cat right in front of my mom and took her little skull in their jaws and snuffed her before my mom could do a damn thing about it.

My mom, who is not an overly emotional sort was truly shaken by this, and she found out who the dogs belonged to, it turned out only two of them belonged to a nearby neighbor, and they had escaped her yard and ran with a third dog... Now this excuse would be fine, except it was not the first time we had seen this pack of dogs run together, and in fact they had killed other local cats. When my mom confronted this lady about her dogs she offered to pay my mom 500 bucks for the cat and my mom was so appalled, because it was insulting that she could pay us off for the death of our pet. My mom wanted her to get rid of the dogs because they obviously were vicious and she obviously wouldn't control them. She refused to get rid of the dogs.

The thing about dogs is that they are descended from pack animals, and when a group get together, even two, they will sometimes revert to pack behaviors.... it isn't the breed of dog, it is the dynamic between the dogs. Once a dog gets the taste for blood, they will attack other animals. I had a Pomeranian that got the taste for blood when she chewed up a litter of kittens out of jealousy, and then went for the neighbor's chickens, we had her put down.

These people will not be able to control these animals, they will seek avenues to hunt and take down other animals. The best anyone in this situation can do is to band together with other neighbors, gather evidence, and take such people to court and make them pay for not controlling their pets.

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(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 45

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 12:09:36 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Some breeds absolutely require more training, more supervision, and stronger handling to keep them as good trustworthy companions. Many people just do not seem to get that.

My sister had to have a bad ass dog because she lives way far out in the country, she chose a queensland heeler. She supposedly knows a lot about dogs, and she wanted a watch dog. Unfortunately, she was a bit more to handle than my sister thought she would be, and she has been a constant caution around strangers... almost having bit several people. My sister had a toy sized mutt that her queenie bit in the face, and had to be rushed to the vet...

Now, this dog has been loyal, and I am completely unafraid of her (she adores me), she also keeps coyotes off the property, which is a good thing... but now my sister has a toddler and she will not let her queenie around her... because deep down on some level she doesn't trust her... the dog is 9 years old now.

Sometimes people do not think of the future when they get pets, nor do they think of the reality of how one second with their attention diverted could lead to some seriously screwed up things happening. Some breeds are not for the average person

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/12/2011 12:10:20 PM >

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Post #: 46

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 12:40:26 PM

sophia37

Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
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I see three pages of discussion on dog breeds but nowhere is anyone addressing what can be done after this attack. Civil court. Take the neighbors to court. You have photos you have a police report. I would hope that you also called whatever animal group you have in your area. You have to report this attack. Animal control? Im not sure what to call your areas group.

Seriously. Youre doing it not only for you, but for whatever else comes down the line. Good luck to you. This sucks. And perhaps you better call somewhere and find out if killing the dogs is legal and get THAT in writing. I can imagine that in a twist YOU could end up being responsible. I don't want this to happen.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 47

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 12:41:51 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Civil court. Take the neighbors to court.

I recommended that

He can also enlist the aid of the neighbor who saw the dogs with their heads covered in blood as a witness

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Post #: 48

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 12:53:57 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I see three pages of discussion on dog breeds but nowhere is anyone addressing what can be done after this attack. Civil court. Take the neighbors to court. You have photos you have a police report. I would hope that you also called whatever animal group you have in your area. You have to report this attack. Animal control? Im not sure what to call your areas group.

If you check, you will see that several of us have mentioned that it's the owner's fault and he should be taken to task, if he doesn't offer to pay the vet bills, yes, sue him for them. And I hope the neighbour is not allowed to keep dogs anymore, but claiming shit like a certain breed is "bad" is just rubbish and uninformed BS. That's how stupid prejudices are started.

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Post #: 49

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 1:14:03 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I took care of the wounds myself, knowing that chances are that I would never see compensation from the dog owner. The penicillin and the syringes and the iodine solution cost me less than $24.00 at the local farm store.

The fence repairs will cost about twice that, including rebar reinforcement and a few posts.

Its my time that Im not sure how to bill for, assuming I am ever even asked. Small claims court is one possibility, and restitution is another but both options will cost me even more of my time. And collecting a judgment can be next to impossible anyway...

What really concerns me the most is the dogs. The deputy who I talked with informed me that they were being held at the dog pound and that he was going to try to get them destroyed, and I really just never want to see them around here again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I see three pages of discussion on dog breeds but nowhere is anyone addressing what can be done after this attack. Civil court. Take the neighbors to court. You have photos you have a police report. I would hope that you also called whatever animal group you have in your area. You have to report this attack. Animal control? Im not sure what to call your areas group.

Seriously. Youre doing it not only for you, but for whatever else comes down the line. Good luck to you. This sucks. And perhaps you better call somewhere and find out if killing the dogs is legal and get THAT in writing. I can imagine that in a twist YOU could end up being responsible. I don't want this to happen.

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Post #: 50

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 1:24:42 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Sanity, have you even talked to the owners of the dogs? There should also be a citation that is issued to the owners for this attack which the deputy will need to go to court. I suggest you also go to court.

I am not seeing you say that you actually spoke to the owners etc. The thing is i get a feeling you just don't want to "get involved" outside of caring for your animals. Just an FYI, if that is the case, your willingness to do nothing could very well be the cause of something happening to someone else or the next time it could be a child that is attacked.

You should talk to a lawyer, in some cases, their homeowner's insurance may well cover it. And so you may not have to fight as hard as you think.

angel

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 51

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 1:30:04 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I am not certain who the owner is, I have a case number but I have yet to see the police report. I think the dogs belong to the people whove very recently moved in a couple of properties to the east of mine, but I will wait until I have a copy of the police report (and see what the deputy and the judge in the case say) before I go knocking on anyones door.

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Post #: 52

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 1:51:04 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Well, i hope you do go to court for the hearing. The fact is, as the victim in the matter, your voice will be one that matters. Take your anger you had when you first posted this thread with you to court, make sure the owners of the dogs hear it and understand it. Maybe they will take more care with any other dogs they have.

angel

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Post #: 53

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 2:16:58 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I am not certain who the owner is, I have a case number but I have yet to see the police report. I think the dogs belong to the people whove very recently moved in a couple of properties to the east of mine, but I will wait until I have a copy of the police report (and see what the deputy and the judge in the case say) before I go knocking on anyones door.

Seriously, you want to have the PERSON responsible for letting the dogs run wild being taken to task. Seriously, if it comes to any of my animals, $100 is nothing when it comes to their health and safety, I think I pay more than that in pet insurance a month, quite a bit more in food and vet bills, I adopted them, they're my responsibility. The person who lets his dogs run wild needs to be taken to task, he or she is irresponsible and the animals are paying the price for that irresponsibility, and with animals I mean your steer as well as the dogs. Please do prosecute the irresponsible owner to avoid anything like that from happening again, and if the costs that were caused are an issue, I gladly chip in and paypal you some money so the steer can have the treatment it needs. The owner is the fuckhead and really needs to learn a lesson, you don't want whoever it is to get new dogs and the same thing happening again because he or she got away with it.

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Post #: 54

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 2:25:26 PM

calamitysandra

Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The thing about dogs is that they are descended from pack animals, and when a group get together, even two, they will sometimes revert to pack behaviors....

They do not revert back to pack behaviour, they always show pack behaviour.
A good owner needs, among other things, to be a strong and dependable pack leader for his dog.
A dog wants to live in a secure and stable hierarchy. If, in your dogs eyes, you are a good alpha, a leader he can follow, you have a contend and secure pet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Once a dog gets the taste for blood, they will attack other animals.

This is a myth.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 6/12/2011 2:26:52 PM >

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Post #: 55

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 2:56:08 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The thing about dogs is that they are descended from pack animals, and when a group get together, even two, they will sometimes revert to pack behaviors....

They do not revert back to pack behaviour, they always show pack behaviour.
A good owner needs, among other things, to be a strong and dependable pack leader for his dog.
A dog wants to live in a secure and stable hierarchy. If, in your dogs eyes, you are a good alpha, a leader he can follow, you have a contend and secure pet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Once a dog gets the taste for blood, they will attack other animals.

This is a myth.

Everything sandra said, dogs are pack animals and they NEED a strong pack leader, if you are not able to do that for the pack, one of the dogs will take the role on, and it's not something that makes them content, being the alpha is very stressful for them, they are happier and more content being told what to do, it's the pack mentality, the need for a leader. When I only had one Dobie, it was not an issue taht she came up on the sofa with the cats, with a 2nd one, it lead to nipping between them and rivaling for position, simple solution, both are now not allowed on furniture anymore, order is restored, and currently they are cuddled up at my feet happily snoring.

If dogs getting "a taste of blood" would turn them into killing machines, nobody could ever feed raw meat to their dogs, it is however not advisable to feed a working dog the meat of the animal they are meant to guard, simply because their sense of smell and taste is so much better than ours...

About almost all incidents when dogs are out of control are due to human mistakes, the person being bitten behaving stupidly and provoking the bite, or the dog owner not knowing what the fuck they are supposed to do and how to raise the dog, or just being plain lazy and stupid and thinking "It will never happen" and not instilling obedience into their dogs. I couldn't love mine anymore than I do, but just pampering them and not training them would be wrong, I would be doing the dogs a disservice and being irresponsible as an owner. Training a dog is seriously not rocket science, you let them know you are in control of the food supply, you give them food and only let them eat when they get the command, it's what the pack leader does, if you leave food out and they serve themselves or you feed them before you've eaten (and finished your food) in their minds it translates to "S/he's not a pack leader, we eat at the same time, we're equal, no need to follow commands" - it's not cruel or torturing them, it's communicating on a level they understand, you wouldn't expect somebody who speaks another language to understand English - you communicate in a language both understand, same with animals. The whole "dog whisperer" stuff is just understanding their body language and mentality and communicating with them.

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Post #: 56

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 3:15:44 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

They do not revert back to pack behaviour, they always show pack behaviour.

I meant running around killing animals... which I consider a certain type of pack behavior that we do not normally see in most dogs

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Post #: 57

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 3:21:57 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

About almost all incidents when dogs are out of control are due to human mistakes, the person being bitten behaving stupidly and provoking the bite, or the dog owner not knowing what the fuck they are supposed to do and how to raise the dog, or just being plain lazy and stupid and thinking "It will never happen" and not instilling obedience into their dogs

I will say that is mostly true... even the dog that I had that went blood thirsty

She was an adult when my mom brought her home. She was closely inbred to be a pure black pom, which are not common. She was the only puppy that her mother ever had that survived out of three litters, because all of the others were highly deformed. Her owners kept breeding this bitch anyways, even though she kept having horrifically deformed pups (for example, one was born with their lungs on the outside of their body, etc).

The owners had a son in law that tormented this dog because she was very nervous and he thought it was funny. She was completely ruined by the time we got her. My mom worked for her owners as their maid, so she was well aware of this dogs history, but she felt really sorry for her. The dog was crazy from the day we got her, and we tried our best to overlook it and love her anyways, but it was what it was. We had to put her down when she went for livestock...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 58

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 3:26:54 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

They do not revert back to pack behaviour, they always show pack behaviour.

I meant running around killing animals... which I consider a certain type of pack behavior that we do not normally see in most dogs

They will only do that because no human pack leader is around who gives the command to hunt or not hunt, the whole pack behaviour is something each and every dog has, cats don't have it, that's why you can't train cats like dogs to follow commands, your regular house cat is not a pack animal, you can't ever train it to not chase mice or birds as they are usually out hunting for themselves, dogs naturally live in packs and the humans are the pack members, the alpha gives commands, like when to eat, who eats what, the alpha will also step in and stop fights in the pack or give the command to hunt. A dog's natural instinct would be to hunt and to follow a pack leader, yet if the pack leader will forbid it, the pack instinct is to "behave" and please the pack leader, or else they might be outcasts. If your dog runs away to hunt despite you told the dog to stay, it's a simple case of you not having made clear to the dog that you are the pack leader. Now mind you with certain dogs the hunting instinct is very strong, I do love Weimaraners, they are gorgeous dogs but they are bred to be hunting dogs, so they will only co-exist with cats if they grew up with them, else they see them as intruders on their turf, since I had cats before dogs, Weimaraners were out and I opted for Dobermans, and you know what? The cats are higher up the pecking order, the dogs will do what the cats "tell" them, it's sometimes quite aggravating that I have to train the dogs to do something while the cats just get the obedience with a "meow" and the dogs will open doors and cupboards for them...

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Post #: 59

RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) - 6/12/2011 3:31:35 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

~fr~

Dogs who attack should be shot in the head. Then, their owners should be shot immediately also.

That said, I love pits

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Post #: 60

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