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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:03:39 PM   
mnottertail


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Many of us in our passion glide over facts, and I think anyone here can live with that, so long as everything comes back into perspective properly.  It is the impudent and constant blasphemy or if you  will recurring re-blasphemy of outrages lies as facts and the constant re-writing of them into 'The Way It Ought To Be' that disturbs.

Regarding the republican/democratic slave deal.....this is somewhat of a simplification, but not overly so....

It was really a regional issue, north vs south, and as it happened at the time the south was agrarian (Democratic Farmer Labor) havent looked at your age but that is DFL...and the north was republican (whigs, know-nothings and nativists)  industrial and business oriented (look at what everybody did for a living) and the republicans were not so happy to free slaves as negros being equal but what pissed them off was a 'free labor' issue (free meaning free men here, if you care to look all that up there is some good books on the leadup and stages into the civil war, and that is where the action was at), a guy in the south didnt pay wages, and in the north they had to and saw that as an unfair business practice, because at the time america was expanding in every way shape and form (with a great march westward especially) and they didnt want to get fucked over.

You will also note that today the positions are reversed, more democratic places in the north and west and republican in the south.

If the largest social programs in the 1800-1870 area were instigated by the republicans and made this country great, what the fuck have they done in the last 150 years?  Why have all their positions flopped 180 degrees, and what have they done for us (AMERICA) lately?

So, I guess everybody has to sort of look around and re-think alot of shit we firmly believe but little know here, and see what sort of things we can do to fix the shit we find ourselves in today.   

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/15/2011 3:25:15 PM >

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:05:12 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not leaving it out at all... take a look.... just in Congress alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_the_United_States_Congress



Can you copy/paste what it is you want to emphasize... I don't wanna have to read the whole thing, yanno?!!



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:11:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You made the statement, you do your homework. But, for a hint, try the actual list of black congresspeople in office in the modern era.

Note how many republicans compared to how many democrats.

Now, come up with a plausible excuse for the discrepancy.

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:18:00 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Bush got UN Approval.


Show me this approval to invade Iraq... back this assertion, I know it is false.

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:21:33 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Note how many republicans compared to how many democrats.

Now, come up with a plausible excuse for the discrepancy.


Ummm... that's not proof of any 'STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL" racism within the Republican party -- not even close. 

And the explanation is simple... more African Americans tend to (incorrectly in my view) think the Dems best represent them -- and so, by a large margin, most tend to BE Democrats.  Thus, you're going to see more African Americans in Congress with a "D" after their name than an "R" after their name.  Not exactly rocket science.

So now, provide your DEFINITIVE PROOF of "STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" within the Republican party.  Again, here's the definition:

"Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was coined by Black Power activist Stokely Carmichael in the late 1960s. The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".

 
Now support your case to definitvely show the above exists within the Republican Party -- or have the courage and honesty to admit there may be racism/prejudices from individuals within both parties, but that it's not "institutionalized".



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:23:06 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Already addressed...



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:23:41 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

"Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was coined by Black Power activist Stokely Carmichael in the late 1960s. The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".


Given the above, this in no way, shape, or form can be attributed to the Republican party.

Additionally, as a matter of fact, Bush's administration contained a more diverse group than does Obamas, and the head of the RNC is Michael Steele -- an African American man.

So again, no... the Republican party has abso-fucking-lutely NOT displayed "Structural/Institutional Racism".


First of all, Ken Barnes is the one saying that he can no longer stay a republican because of what he says is their implicit acceptance of racism. We are debating what Ken Barnes claims, why not address it?

It is pretty laughable that you would look at Steele as proof the Republican Party does not implicitly accept racism, when in fact Steele would probably disagree with that himself these days

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/republican-national-committee/michael-steele-acknowledges-gop-had-southern-strategy-for-decades/

quote:

A lot of people are pointing to a new set of remarks Michael Steele made about the Republican Party and race, in which Steele acknowledged that the GOP hasn’t given African Americans a reason to support the party.

But I think folks are missing the real news in what Steele said. The RNC chairman also appeared to acknowledge that the GOP has had a race-based “southern strategy” for four decades, which is decidedly not a historical interpretation many Republicans agree with.[


So there ya are, another Black man is saying the same thing as Mr Barnes, but the thing is, this was the token black guy they used after Obama's election so they could say "Look, we have a Black guy too!"




< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/15/2011 3:24:31 PM >

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:25:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		“I ran in 2008 and raised half a million dollars, and the state party didn’t support me and the national party didn’t support me,” said Allen West, who is running for Congress in Florida and is one of roughly five black candidates the party believes could win. “But we came back and we’re running and things are looking great.”

You tell me.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/15/2011 3:26:25 PM >

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:25:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Bush got no approval from the UN...



"There have been three major events in Iraq's history for which the UN has passed numerous resolutions: the Iran–Iraq War, the Persian Gulf War, and the Iraq disarmament crisis leading up to and following the 2003 invasion of Iraq."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolutions_concerning_Iraq
 

 
 


The UN never approved Bush invading Iraq. They passed resolutions, but that was not one of them


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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:29:35 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ken Barnes is the one saying that he can no longer stay a republican because of what he says is their implicit acceptance of racism.



So fucking what?!!  He can whatever he likes... it doesn't make it true.  PROVE "Structural/Institutional Racism" in the Republican Party -- you have the defintion... now PROVE it!!!  This person's OPINION (as that's all it is) doesn't PROVE anything.  It's just his opinion.  Big fucking deal.



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:30:35 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Good GAWD... fucking READ before replying, will you?!!



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:32:06 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ken Barnes is the one saying that he can no longer stay a republican because of what he says is their implicit acceptance of racism.



So fucking what?!!  He can whatever he likes... it doesn't make it true.  PROVE "Structural/Institutional Racism" in the Republican Party -- you have the defintion... now PROVE it!!!  This person's OPINION (as that's all it is) doesn't PROVE anything.  It's just his opinion.  Big fucking deal.




This person was a member of that institution, which gives him far more credibility than you. Now, if you can prove what he claims is false, I am all ears. You have yet to do so.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:32:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I would point out that even if there is no institutional racism built into the republican party (which is not a view that I would really care to strenuously forward), there is indeed among the populus of colour in the US a pervasive and deep rooted PERCIEVED notion that it is so.

So, proceeding from my opening to my closing in that paragraph, we must ask ourselves;

How can this possibly be true?   Is the brown man (anyone not lilly white) ignorant?   Has he been led astray by some devious method known only to the democrats that cannot be pointed out by those in the know (republicans)?

See?  What do we really have here then?

Because in this case, by and large, perception will suffice for reality.



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:37:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Perception is what it is all about. That perception tainted by members of their own party.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:38:02 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ken Barnes is the one saying that he can no longer stay a republican because of what he says is their implicit acceptance of racism.



So fucking what?!!  He can whatever he likes... it doesn't make it true.  PROVE "Structural/Institutional Racism" in the Republican Party -- you have the defintion... now PROVE it!!!  This person's OPINION (as that's all it is) doesn't PROVE anything.  It's just his opinion.  Big fucking deal.




If you do not want to deal with what he has had to say, why the FUCK are you posting on a thread addressing what he had to say?

Seriously?

_____________________________

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:38:23 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

“I ran in 2008 and raised half a million dollars, and the state party didn’t support me and the national party didn’t support me,” said Allen West, who is running for Congress in Florida and is one of roughly five black candidates the party believes could win. “But we came back and we’re running and things are looking great.”



1)  Well boo-fucking-hoo.  So what???  Ronald Reagan wasn't supported by his party for a number of years either -- and he wasn't African American -- so the above proves absolutely NOTHING to support "Structural/Institutional Racism". Real shocker that a party will not support every damn person... absolute shocker... NOT!!!

2)  You've failed again to show DEFINITIVE PROOF of "STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" within the Republican party.  Again, here's the definition:

"Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was coined by Black Power activist Stokely Carmichael in the late 1960s. The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".

 
Now support your case to definitvely show BASED ON THE ABOVE DEFINITION that "STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" exists within the Republican Party -- or have the courage and honesty to admit there may be racism/prejudices from individuals within both parties, but that it's not "institutionalized".



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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:39:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		I will wait till you catch up.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:39:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Good GAWD... fucking READ before replying, will you?!!





Good gawd, would you please learn how to use the quote function so I know what the fuck you are talking about?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:43:25 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

This person was a member of that institution, which gives him far more credibility than you. Now, if you can prove what he claims is false, I am all ears. You have yet to do so.


I have asked several times all through this thread for MSLA to take a stab at that, but it is just

1. democrats are racist
2. people made bush/chimp comparisons
3. making fun of presidents is wrong
4 code pink is racist
5. you accused bush of being a war criminal
6. cut and pasting definitions of structural racism without understanding those definitions as they apply to the republican party - such as their Southern Strategy and disenfranchising Blacks from the vote by scrubbing them off the voter rolls in states like Florida and Georgia

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... - 6/15/2011 3:44:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I know, which is why I am waiting.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 200
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