RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (Full Version)

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:44:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Pssst... he's ONE person... with HIS opinion... and one's OPINION does not make it true.  You pretend that just because someone states something that you agree with, that it's true.  It's not... it's just his opinion, and neither he nor you or anyone else has shown PROOF of "Structural/Institutional Racism" -- just unproven opinion.

As to why I posted?  That's already been addressed... to prove racism/prejudice is not unique to ONE party as you seem to believe.  A baseless belief you've not been able to support.





thishereboi -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:50:41 PM)

quote:

yeeaah i dunno how any brown person stayed republican after seeing how they joked about obama.


Maybe they were intelligent enough to realize there are racists on the left side too. Kinda like some gays realize that not everyone on the left side is accepting of homosexuals.




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:51:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I know, which is why I am waiting.


He is not going to address the topic of the thread because it doesn't suit his agenda...




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:52:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This person was a member of that institution



Big fucking deal... ONE person... ONE opinion.  Doesn't make it true -- if that's the best you got, then you got NOTHING to support your position -- absolutely nothing!!!  Like a broken record, you just keep pointing to ONE person with THEIR OPINION.  So fucking what.  Neither you or Tazzy have offerend ANY actual evidence of "Structural/Institutional Racism".





tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:56:22 PM)

Wait... he? I thought msla was female




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:56:37 PM)

quote:

Pssst... he's ONE person... with HIS opinion... and one's OPINION does not make it true. 


Then why bother responding to the thread unless you can show it to be untrue?

quote:

You pretend that just because someone states something that you agree with, that it's true. It's not... it's just his opinion, and neither he nor you or anyone else has shown PROOF of "Structural/Institutional Racism" -- just unproven opinion.


I have taken entire courses around this concept... two actually. It is complex, like many ideas that are worthwhile to know about. I have some links to cultural anthropology sites that deal with the concept. I also have other links that talk about structural racism... which takes more than a paragraph cut and pasted off of Wikipedia to understand... and btw, that article has requested an expert to clean it up because it is really rough. It is hard to boil down that level of complexity into a paragraph....


quote:

As to why I posted? That's already been addressed... to prove racism/prejudice is not unique to ONE party as you seem to believe. A baseless belief you've not been able to support.


But that isn't the topic of the thread, which is why Ken Barnes became an independent... he did not become a democrat or advocate for democrats. I could see you making this stink if he had claimed that "democrats have no racists so I am going to join them".

The fact is that he, along with many other people, myself included, are not willing to sacrifice our positions just to suck it up for a party. But you would rather make this a partisan debate... which is sad, really.




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:58:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wait... he? I thought msla was female



I have never looked...




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 3:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

...not going to address the topic of the thread...



Liar... I addressed your DIRECT QUESTION in Post #165 --> http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3724516

YOU have not addressed mine... here it is again:

Provide your DEFINITIVE PROOF of "STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" within the Republican party.  Again, here's the definition:

"Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was coined by Black Power activist Stokely Carmichael in the late 1960s. The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".

 
Now support your case to definitvely show the above exists within the Republican Party -- or have the courage and honesty to admit there may be racism/prejudices from individuals within both parties, but that it's not "institutionalized".





tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:00:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This person was a member of that institution



Big fucking deal... ONE person... ONE opinion.  Doesn't make it true -- if that's the best you got, then you got NOTHING to support your position -- absolutely nothing!!!  Like a broken record, you just keep pointing to ONE person with THEIR OPINION.  So fucking what.  Neither you or Tazzy have offerend ANY actual evidence of "Structural/Institutional Racism".





The Republican Party has not given African Americans a good reason to vote for the party, Republican National Committee Chair Michael Steele said Tuesday night.

"You really don't have a reason to, to be honest -- we haven't done a very good job of really giving you one. True? True," Steele said at DePaul University, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Steele, the first African-American chairman for the RNC, said the GOP has lost its historical link to African Americans.

"This party was co-founded by blacks, among them Frederick Douglass," he said. "The Republican Party had a hand in forming the NAACP, and yet we have mistreated that relationship. People don't walk away from parties, their parties walk away from them."

He said the GOP's strategy of appealing to white, male voters in the South alienated minorities and ultimately proved ineffective when Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992.

Democrats have sought to highlight the GOP's lack of diversity and recently criticized the party for not having many strong female candidates for this year's midterm elections.

Steele added, however, that Republicans should embrace the Tea Party movement, which a recent CBS News/ New York Times poll found is overwhelmingly white and represents the South more than any other region. Steele said the Tea Party represents "a third or more of the voting age population," but the CBS News / New York Times poll found that, in fact, 18 percent of Americans identify with the Tea Party. Most of the Tea Partiers, however, do also identify as Republican.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003147-503544.html#ixzz1PO8fkabW





juliaoceania -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:03:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This person was a member of that institution



Big fucking deal... ONE person... ONE opinion.  Doesn't make it true -- if that's the best you got, then you got NOTHING to support your position -- absolutely nothing!!!  Like a broken record, you just keep pointing to ONE person with THEIR OPINION.  So fucking what.  Neither you or Tazzy have offerend ANY actual evidence of "Structural/Institutional Racism".




http://www.ywca.org/atf/cf/%7BAC4038C4-BCCA-4F24-B55C-F41063EDF6FE%7D/Definitions%20of%20Racism.pdf




BitaTruble -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:11:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

And the explanation is simple... more African Americans tend to (incorrectly in my view) think the Dems best represent them --


It seems to me that if any party has been unable to accurately represent their ideas in order to draw in supporters, that would be either the fault of the policy's, a failure to communicate or that people really do know who best represents their interests.

Which party do you believe best represents Americans and what are the specific policy's they have in place which would attract African American supporters?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:13:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



Again, doesn't prove ANY "Structural/Institutional Racism"... PERIOD!!!  Just that they need to do a better PR job.

So again, provide your DEFINITIVE PROOF of "STRUCTURAL/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" within the Republican party.  Again, here's the definition:

"Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was coined by Black Power activist Stokely Carmichael in the late 1960s. The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".

 
Now support your case to definitvely show the above exists within the Republican Party -- or have the courage and honesty to admit there may be racism/prejudices from individuals within both parties, but that it's not "institutionalized".

When are you and that other poster going actually use the DEFINITION to make your case, instead of offering the silly quotes you keep posting that prove nothing?!!  Was the above definition not sufficient enough for you to understand what it is you're trying to prove?!! [8|]

You and the other poster cling to YOUR POLITICAL PREJUDICES like grim death, but have no actual proof to support your silly beliefs that the "other' party has "institutionalized" racism.  Just empty opinions.  Worse, neither of you has the honesty or courage to admit when you're wrong.  No... you just want to keep foolishly believing that one party is great, and another party is evil.  How dumb!!! [8|]





tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:14:35 PM)

Steele himself...., you remember, the man you claimed proved the Republican party couldnt possibly be engaging in institutional racism?... states that it is.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:16:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

http://www.ywca.org/atf/cf/%7BAC4038C4-BCCA-4F24-B55C-F41063EDF6FE%7D/Definitions%20of%20Racism.pdf



Yeah???  And??? Now definitively PROVE it exists in the Republican Party.





tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:20:01 PM)

Are you male or female?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Steele himself...., you remember, the man you claimed proved the Republican party couldnt possibly be engaging in institutional racism?... states that it is.


Lie... he stated nothing of the sort.






MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:22:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Are you male or female?


The avatar and "slut" references aren't clear enough???  (GASPS!!!)





tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:25:53 PM)

Actually, according to your definition...

The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin".



The professional service provided by the RNC was withheld from minorties according to Steele.

The Republican Party has not given African Americans a good reason to vote for the party, Republican National Committee Chair Michael Steele said Tuesday night.

"You really don't have a reason to, to be honest -- we haven't done a very good job of really giving you one. True? True," Steele said at DePaul University, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Steele, the first African-American chairman for the RNC, said the GOP has lost its historical link to African Americans.

"This party was co-founded by blacks, among them Frederick Douglass," he said. "The Republican Party had a hand in forming the NAACP, and yet we have mistreated that relationship. People don't walk away from parties, their parties walk away from them."

He said the GOP's strategy of appealing to white, male voters in the South alienated minorities and ultimately proved ineffective when Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992.


He did in fact say that.




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:26:51 PM)

quote:

Structural Racism

Definition: Structural Racism in the U.S. is the normalization and legitimization of an
array of dynamics – historical, cultural, institutional and interpersonal – that routinely
advantage whites while producing cumulative and chronic adverse outcomes for people
of color.
It is a system of hierarchy and inequity, primarily characterized by white
supremacy – the preferential treatment, privilege and power for white people at the
expense of Black, Latino, Asian, Pacific Islander, Native American, Arab and other
racially oppressed people.



From what Ken Barnes and Michael Steele have said, I would say that the repeated acceptance of racist imagery, the racist jokes (some made by politicians themselves according to Barnes) there has been a normalizing of racism within the Republican Party structure.

Steele apologized for the use of a Southern Strategy, and since he left as RNC Chairman, he has said they are still using it... as chair I would think he knows what he is talking about
quote:

In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to the late-20th century Republican Party strategy of winning elections in Southern states by exploiting anti-African American racism among Southern white voters and appealing to states' rights. Though the "Solid South" had been a longtime Democratic Party stronghold due to the Democratic Party's defense of slavery prior to the American Civil War and segregation for a century thereafter, many white Southern Democrats left the party following the African-American Civil Rights Movement, the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, and desegregation.
The strategy was first adopted under future Republican President Richard Nixon in the late 1960s and continued through the latter decades of the 20th century under presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush.[1] The strategy was successful in achieving its goals; it led to the electoral realignment of Southern states to the Republican Party, but at the expense of losing more than 90 percent of black voters to the Democratic Party. As the 20th century came to a close, the Republican Party began trying to appeal again to black voters, though with little success.[1] During the 2000s decade, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman formally apologized for his party's use of the Southern Strategy in the previous century. Michael Steele served as the party's first African-American chairman from January 2009-January 2011.



quote:

Scope: Structural Racism encompasses the entire system of white supremacy, diffused
and infused in all aspects of society, including our history, culture, politics, economics
and our entire social fabric. Structural Racism is the most profound and pervasive form of
racism – all other forms of racism (e.g. institutional, interpersonal, internalized, etc.)
emerge from structural racism.


This definition also includes the scope of the racism, like personal emails with racial overtones between party members, etc.

I
quote:

ndicators/Manifestations: The key indicators of structural racism are inequalities in
power, access, opportunities, treatment, and policy impacts and outcomes, whether they
are intentional or not. Structural racism is more difficult to locate in a particular
institution because it involves the reinforcing effects of multiple institutions and cultural
norms, past and present, continually producing new, and re-producing old forms of
racism.


By capitalizing on racial divisions in the South, they are using historical attitudes of racism.


I could go on, but it is on the link I published earlier.




tazzygirl -> RE: Black Repub Ken Barnes Wakes Up... (6/15/2011 4:29:04 PM)

I wasnt the one calling you "he". Besides I have told others you post too much like a teenage girl to ever believe you were male.




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