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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 8:58:17 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Allow me to rephrase that question a bit.Do not those that oppose abortion do it extremely and with religious zealotry ?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:03:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum


Its ok as long as its their loved ones. Fuck everyone else.

``The doctors said they were talking about a matter of hours or a day or two before risking sepsis and both of them might die,'' Santorum said. ``Obviously, if it was a choice of whether both Karen and the child are going to die or just the child is going to die, I mean it's a pretty easy call.''

As her fever subsided, Karen - a former neonatal intensive-care nurse - asked for something to stop the labor. Her doctors refused, Santorum recalled, citing malpractice concerns.

Santorum said her labor proceeded without having to induce an abortion.

Karen, a soft-spoken red-haired 37-year-old, said that ``ultimately'' she would have agreed to intervention for the sake of her other children.

``If the physician came to me and said if we don't deliver your baby in one hour you will be dead, yeah, I would have to do it,'' she said. ``But for me, it was at the very end. I would never make a decision like that until all other means had been thoroughly exhausted.''

http://mysite.verizon.net/lardil/id81.html

On Sunday’s Meet the Press, Santorum told host David Gregory that his beliefs were so strong that he felt abortion was murder even in cases of rape or incest and that all abortion doctors should be “criminally charged.”

“I want to be clear on this. Do you believe that there should be any legal exceptions for rape or incest when it comes to abortion?” Gregory asked.

“I believe that life begins at conception and that that life should be guaranteed under the constitution. … I believe that any doctor that performs an abortion should be criminally charged for doing so. I’ve never supported criminalization of abortion for mothers, but I do for people that perform them,” said Santorum.

http://floridaindependent.com/34307/rick-santorum-abortion

So he, and his wife, would have both taken the option of aborting the fetus that was killing her... and would have considered the Dr who had done so a criminal?

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:07:26 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Double post...my apologies.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 6/17/2011 9:08:23 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:11:16 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The Reps were hijacked long ago by extreme christians, and the anti-abortion part of the platform was inserted because of them. The faster any political group can distance themselves from religious zealots, the better off they will be..

Ok.

Orion, I have much respect for you as a poster, but this one threw me a bit for a loop.

Why is it "extreme" and "religious zealotry" to oppose abortion?

Firm



In Santorum's case, its not extreme or zealotry... its hypocrisy.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:29:45 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Why is it "extreme" and "religious zealotry" to oppose abortion?

Orion will answer for himself, of course. But I have an answer too. It is not religious zealotry to be against abortion. It is religious zealotry to demand that one's religious views be invested with the power of law.

K.

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:29:54 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Allow me to rephrase that question a bit.Do not those that oppose abortion do it extremely and with religious zealotry ?


In a word... no.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:34:11 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I can accept that as an honest answer.....I feel no need to research the endless acts of extremism committed by pro life forces...nor detail the many statements of religious zealotry spoken in defense of the pro life point of view.
Pro life speaks for itself and it does so in the language of extremism and zealotry.....your opinion notwithstanding .

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:41:19 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Why is it "extreme" and "religious zealotry" to oppose abortion?

Orion will answer for himself, of course. But I have an answer too. It is not religious zealotry to be against abortion. It is religious zealotry to demand that one's religious views be invested with the power of law.

K.


This


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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:42:25 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I did not know this about Rick Santorum...

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:42:48 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I feel no need to research the endless acts of extremism committed by pro life forces...

You appear to be assuming that everyone who is against abortion is an extremist. I submit for your consideration that if this were true, their numbers are sufficient to have murdered every abortion doctor in the United States six times over and been done with it a decade ago.

K.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:45:39 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		One can be personally against abortion, even for religious reasons, and not seek to overturn Roe v Wade out of the interest of preserving our freedom to seek uninhibited medical care from our physicians, privacy within our medical records, and the freedom for women to determine whether or not they want their bodies to be vessels for the unborn.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:47:45 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Allow me to rephrase that question a bit.Do not those that oppose abortion do it extremely and with religious zealotry ?

Some don't and some do.  Although many oppose abortion using extreme language and actions, there's no necessary connection between opposition to abortion and extremism

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:51:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I did not know this about Rick Santorum...


You may find reports that they did augment her labor with pitocin. Nothing verified by the family, so I will say that part isnt true.

Just the fact that they even considered it based upon their own words, for the sake of their other children...

sorry... rings hypocrital to me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 9:57:32 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
The Reps were hijacked long ago by extreme christians, and the anti-abortion part of the platform was inserted because of them. The faster any political group can distance themselves from religious zealots, the better off they will be..

...Why is it "extreme" and "religious zealotry" to oppose abortion?

Saying that extremist Christians inserted an anti-abortion plank isn't the same as saying that everyone who opposes abortion is an extremist Christian.

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:04:54 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not sure I can accept that as an honest answer.....I feel no need to research the endless acts of extremism committed by pro life forces...nor detail the many statements of religious zealotry spoken in defense of the pro life point of view.
Pro life speaks for itself and it does so in the language of extremism and zealotry.....your opinion notwithstanding .


It really doesn't matter if you can accept it or not... it is an honest answer.  No research required for me, as I am living proof.  I oppose abortion, yet I do not do so by extremist measures or with religious zealotry. 

I don't really care about all the legal, religious and philosophical debates surrounding abortion... it just doesn't feel right to me.   I am human enough to admit that I do not know the answers to all the complicated questions in the world, so I will not play the "what if" game and try to consider all possible situations. 

I will say that I am not opposed to abortion being legal, but I believe it should be very rare... because, in general, I am opposed to abortion.  The very idea of it doesn't feel right to me.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:14:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I feel no need to research the endless acts of extremism committed by pro life forces...

You appear to be assuming that everyone who is against abortion is an extremist. I submit for your consideration that if this were true, their numbers are sufficient to have murdered every abortion doctor in the United States six times over and been done with it a decade ago.

K.
I never said,nor meant to imply that....but the point holds that there have been numerous acts of extremism committed byt those who believe with the commitment of zealotry in that sanctity of a fetus.
I do not see any reason to further qualify that assertion,nor do I see any way of disputing it.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:15:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Would you think less of someone if you discovered they had an abortion?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:19:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

One can be personally against abortion, even for religious reasons, and not seek to overturn Roe v Wade out of the interest of preserving our freedom to seek uninhibited medical care from our physicians, privacy within our medical records, and the freedom for women to determine whether or not they want their bodies to be vessels for the unborn.

And in that case your personal and or religious views are of no concern to me...as a matter of fact I would respect and defend your right to hold these views....it is the zealot and extremist that concerns me...and the fact that far too many pro life groups refuse to disavow the actions of the fringe.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 6/17/2011 10:24:55 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:23:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Treasure please see previous post.....
All I did was take a question Firm asked and turned it around....are you trying to suggest that there are not extremists and zealots ,at this very moment,working feverishly to overturn,by any method possible ,Roe v Wade ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/17/2011 10:26:33 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

One can be personally against abortion, even for religious reasons, and not seek to overturn Roe v Wade out of the interest of preserving our freedom to seek uninhibited medical care from our physicians, privacy within our medical records, and the freedom for women to determine whether or not they want their bodies to be vessels for the unborn.

And in that case your personal and or religious views are of no concern to me...as a matter of fact I would respect and defend your right to hold these views....it is the zealot and extremist that concerns me...and the fact that far too many pro life groupr refuse to disavow the actions of the fringe.


To be fair, Treasure said that she isn't for making it illegal, even though she is opposed, and I thought she is like a lot of people.

No one "likes" abortion. Lets face it, it is wasteful. I hate waste. It isn't fun for women to go through, I am sure, and it is laudable to make it rare... which I think Planned Parenthood has prevented far more pregnancies than they ever terminated. They also help women stay reproductively healthy so they can have healthy babies...

Most women support Planned Parenthood, even those who oppose abortion. And I think Romney understands the true stats behind Planned Parenthood, which was why he probably refused to sign the pledge... they are a piece of the puzzle that keeps abortion more rare than it otherwise would be.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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