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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:08:22 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Sorry firm, the notebook here has no paste function.  I have tried this about 5 times to cut and paste the way I saw it.

Statements in paraphrase:
(o=Orion f=Firm)
o.A= Religious zealots have taken over the right wing of the conservatives.
o.B= and the anti abortion plank was originally inserted by those zealots and extremists.
o-f.C= (leap must be constructed here) only zealots and extremists oppose abortion.
f.D= (Orion is stating that (or if you prefer Therefore;) is it zealot and extremist to oppose abortion.

Thanks for the efforts Ron.  I think I understand your point.

And, basically, you are correct, although I don't think I'm really missing it.  It is "C" that I am actually asking about and wishing to discuss, because it seems to be the implied assumption, and I do not think it logically follows (C=False would be my argument), therefore "D" is false as well.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:09:49 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Firm,

I will get back to you on this, to explain the intermediate reasoning I am using. While I am away, think of the simple question of "Do we allow science or religion to determine when life begins, so that it has rights under the law?"

No problem Orion.  It's often time-consuming to have a good discussion, and I'm often busy as well.

In fact, I should be working right now ... damnit.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:12:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You know how I am about those....

So what you're saying is...  adversarially constructed anacoluthons (for lack of a better term...at the mo)  

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:18:06 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Safe, legal, and RARE works for me.


Define rare in this instance.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:19:26 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Would you think less of someone if you discovered they had an abortion?


Consider for a moment what it means to "think less of someone"... just exactly what does that mean?  

To me, thinking more of less of someone is directly tied to how that person is related to me (overall socially, not specifically familial).  Essentially, if I don't have a relationship with someone, I have no specific opinion of them that can be made more or less... other than a very generic "they are a human being" acknowledgment which is pretty much just a "live and let live as long as they harm no one else" thing.

Relationships cover a broad area, and the type I might have with a person changes my expectations.  As examples:
  • The relationship I have with Firm is the closest (most intimate and personal).  I have high expectations of him as a whole... his intelligence, his emotional stability, his moral fiber, his decision-making ability, his compassion, his reasoning, etc.  While it might appear that there are an infinite number of areas in which I might "think less" of him, in reality, individual "infractions" are generally diluted by the whole.  In other words, it would take a great number of disappointments overall, or many in just one area, to make me think less of him.
  • The relationship I have with an employee can be somewhat close.  I may enjoy their company and interact with them on a personal level, but my primary relationship is a business one.  My expectations lean more towards their abilities to perform the work needed and add value to my business.  Disappointments in these areas will affect whether I think "more or less" of them, but only with regard to those specific things where I hold expectations.  I am not generally going to think "less" of them as a person if they do not meet my expectations, but I will likely think "less" of them as a worker.
  • There are relationships I have with the guys who care for my lawn, although it is limited.  I do not know them personally, and hold no specific opinion of them in that manner.  My expectations are solely for their ability to perform the service that I pay for, and their reliability to do so.
  • The relationship that I have with some convicted serial killer on death row exists only as we are both members of society.  They have violated the "live and let live as long as they harm no one else" expectation.  As I have no other relationship ties to them, then I do think less of them.
Of course, these are just an illustrative few.  There are innumerable types of relationships along this spectrum.

Now... to address your question. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Would you think less of someone if you discovered they had an abortion?


It would depend on the relationship I have with that someone.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:20:08 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

... anacoluthons ...

Damnit Ron!

It's frigging Saturday, for f's sake ... you gonna make me look again?! 

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:21:51 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Yet you do not speak of relationships you have with women.

Same question for you... define rare in this instance.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:23:52 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hey, I learned 'em from Buckley.  Breaking off a thought, so fashion....

Fuck you, you come out here------- You make me so mad.

(anacoluthon for demonstration only, Firm does not piss me off in the least)

you might want to look up aposiopetic, cuz I like that one too.  saves typing.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/18/2011 8:28:27 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:25:07 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Treasure please see previous post.....
All I did was take a question Firm asked and turned it around....are you trying to suggest that there are not extremists and zealots ,at this very moment,working feverishly to overturn,by any method possible ,Roe v Wade ?


That is not the question you asked.  You said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Do not those that oppose abortion do it extremely and with religious zealotry ?


A poorly worded question, but fairly clear.  You are asking for validation of the following statement:

Those that oppose abortion do so extremely and with religious zealotry.

My answer stands.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:35:36 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet you do not speak of relationships you have with women.


Seriously, taz... I would think you could extrapolate. 

And who said the employee, the lawn workers, or the serial killer are not women? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Same question for you... define rare in this instance.


Not often. 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:44:17 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You know, these "religious extremists" could use some education, since us Jews don't have any issue with abortions performed pre-quickening.

Post-quickening? Yeah, there's plenty of debate, but until the Mother feels the baby move? It ain't a baby.

Life does NOT begin at conception. That is G-d's Law.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:44:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		True, 1.2% of the population of women between the ages of 15 - 44 that have an abortion each year, to me, is rare enough.

And, no Treasure, I dont " extrapolate".... thats making an assumption based upon what you did.... and didnt.. say.

quote:

And who said the employee, the lawn workers, or the serial killer are not women?


quote:

There are relationships I have with the guys who care for my lawn


And since there have been less than 25 serial female killers in the US, and I had to look up that number, basing your comment on a serial killer could be considered a safe assumption that it would be male.

But, there ya go. its better not to assume and to ask. Even though I never get a direct answer to a direct question.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/18/2011 8:45:23 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:47:30 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And since there have been less than 25 serial female killers in the US,



That should be < 25 female serial killers CAUGHT in the US, since everyone knows that Women Are Smarter, Smarter Than A Man In Every Way...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:48:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL.. true... I stand corrected...

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:49:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And what?  Maybe two women that could be thought of as having any sort of sexual component to the acts, with some heavy stretching.

Toppan and Wuornos.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:49:55 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

True, 1.2% of the population of women between the ages of 15 - 44 that have an abortion each year, to me, is rare enough.

And, no Treasure, I dont " extrapolate".... thats making an assumption based upon what you did.... and didnt.. say.

quote:

And who said the employee, the lawn workers, or the serial killer are not women?


quote:

There are relationships I have with the guys who care for my lawn


guy

noun /gī/ 
guys, plural
    A man
      - he's a nice guy

    People of either sex
      - you guys want some coffee?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:51:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Guy refers to men. Guys can be both. But, since her post never once specified a single woman... its a rather carefully worded posting with the intent to hide. Like the definition of rare.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/18/2011 8:52:25 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:52:50 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Guy refers to men. Guys can be both.

huh ... scratches head

I think that is what I was saying.  Treasure used the term "guys" in your quote.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:54:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		But, since her post never once specified a single woman... its a rather carefully worded posting with the intent to hide. Like the definition of rare.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: hang on a mo... - 6/18/2011 8:55:35 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You know, these "religious extremists" could use some education, since us Jews don't have any issue with abortions performed pre-quickening.

Post-quickening? Yeah, there's plenty of debate, but until the Mother feels the baby move? It ain't a baby.

Life does NOT begin at conception. That is G-d's Law.

Interesting take, and based on good reasoning.

However, it brings to mind a common disconnect in logic I see with some vegetarian lefties ... they believe in abortion on demand, at any time, but won't eat any meat or meat products because it's immoral ...

Always thought that was funny.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 80
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