RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post

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Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 5:28:00 PM)
I am willing to credit the examples, but I don't think they reflect a generalized anti-Atheist prejudice in American society. I think they are examples of the attitude of the Christian Right and its crazed believers. K.

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 5:42:45 PM)
Well, you are free to consider them valid examples, but on the other side of the coin I could give far more litigated examples of discrimination against gay people and ethnic minorities...not to mention actual lynching within both groups. I know there are many small minded religious people, there are small minded zealots in every group.

Aylee -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 7:18:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well I've not seen many atheists employed as priests so I think that needs looking at. Hopefully the church will introduce a positive discrimination drive and end this pattern. The military does allow atheists (and any other religious group) to be chaplain's assistants.

lickenforyou -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 8:18:39 PM)
So, if someone doesn't get lynched they're not discriminated against?

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 8:22:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lickenforyou So, if someone doesn't get lynched they're not discriminated against? Please quote where I said anything of the sort. What your post did was build a strawman, which is a form of logical fallacy.

lickenforyou -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 8:27:23 PM)
Well then what was your point with the following post? "Well, you are free to consider them valid examples, but on the other side of the coin I could give far more litigated examples of discrimination against gay people and ethnic minorities...not to mention actual lynching within both groups."

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/18/2011 8:54:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lickenforyou Well then what was your point with the following post? "Well, you are free to consider them valid examples, but on the other side of the coin I could give far more litigated examples of discrimination against gay people and ethnic minorities...not to mention actual lynching within both groups." My only question is this: Did you read every comment I made on this thread, or are you taking that comment out of context to everything else I have stated on the topic?

rawtape -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 5:46:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well I've not seen many atheists employed as priests so I think that needs looking at. Hopefully the church will introduce a positive discrimination drive and end this pattern. You are joking, right?.... Just making sure. Well, one could suggest that the Anglicans/Church of England had a decent number of agnostic priests (based on some of the responses to a survey that many in the clergy responded to). Mind you, Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has recently come out lecturing the clergy to be more vocal in countering the arguments put forward by the new atheists.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 5:56:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Well, you are free to consider them valid examples, but on the other side of the coin I could give far more litigated examples of discrimination against gay people and ethnic minorities...not to mention actual lynching within both groups. I know there are many small minded religious people, there are small minded zealots in every group. the examples I resented were initially in response to this claim: quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I believe, there is really no discrimination against atheists (show me where). "Public acceptance" needs to be earned, it can not be forced from above. How do you intend to legislate philosophical (political) point of view? I never said or implied atheists were treated worse than other groups. Although I will make the point that discrimination against atheists is tolerated where discrimination against sexual or ethnic minorities is not. Just look at the nonreaction to Starr Jones comments a few years back.

rawtape -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 6:00:22 AM)
My social milieu is academia -- one doesn't really come across any discrimination of atheists there; in fact, I dare say we atheists are the majority there. But even outside this sphere, I haven't really seen much discrimination against atheists. Yes, a larger fraction of Americans are probably believers than say, the British; yes, there is a strongly vocal minority that tries to force Creationism/Intelligent Design into school curricula; and yes, other than Muslims (presently), we atheists can be railed against by politicians without engendering the type of opprobrium that say, similar comments about Jews would have brought forth; but I haven't really seen anything remotely approaching the travails faced by LGBT people, or members of certain ethnicities and faiths.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 6:02:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Hopefully in the future atheists will be in the majority and religious people in the minority. I'm of the opinion the world at that time will be more peaceful and cooperative. I can't see that happening, considering wars and civil unrest are not all religious based.

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:52:58 AM)
quote: I never said or implied atheists were treated worse than other groups. Although I will make the point that discrimination against atheists is tolerated where discrimination against sexual or ethnic minorities is not. Just look at the nonreaction to Starr Jones comments a few years back. I looked up those comments. I personally tell people some of the most ethical people I know are atheists, and it is true in my experience. In fact I get along with atheists much better than I get a long with Christians and if I viewed the world through my own eyes I would say atheists are more ethical than Christians.... but I know that is probably not true, just my view of it. That being said, are you willing to say Dawkins is a bigot because he insults religious people? How many times have I seen atheists (on this very site) claim religious people were dumb? I could go back and get those posts for you if you like.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 10:13:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I never said or implied atheists were treated worse than other groups. Although I will make the point that discrimination against atheists is tolerated where discrimination against sexual or ethnic minorities is not. Just look at the nonreaction to Starr Jones comments a few years back. I looked up those comments. I personally tell people some of the most ethical people I know are atheists, and it is true in my experience. In fact I get along with atheists much better than I get a long with Christians and if I viewed the world through my own eyes I would say atheists are more ethical than Christians.... but I know that is probably not true, just my view of it. That being said, are you willing to say Dawkins is a bigot because he insults religious people? How many times have I seen atheists (on this very site) claim religious people were dumb? I could go back and get those posts for you if you like. Ms. Jones did not call atheists dumb. She said atheists were unworthy of being in government and were immoral. There was absolutely no negative reaction except from atheists. If she had said the same thing about a religious or ethnic minority she would have been forced to, at minimum, publicly apologize instead she repeated the statement.

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 10:20:58 AM)
quote: Ms. Jones did not call atheists dumb. She said atheists were unworthy of being in government and were immoral. There was absolutely no negative reaction except from atheists. If she had said the same thing about a religious or ethnic minority she would have been forced to, at minimum, publicly apologize instead she repeated the statement And Brain said that religions are responsible for all the world's violence... talk about your heavy handed rhetoric to demonize people... While you are at it, why not google "religion violence delusion" with "dawkins" ... Interesting bigoted comments from him. I know if it hard to see how the people that agree with you are bigoted (or how you yourself are) and it is easy to see how people are bigoted towards you. People are just funny like that.

thishereboi -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 11:21:16 AM)
quote: And Brain said that religions are responsible for all the world's violence... talk about your heavy handed rhetoric to demonize people... He has also claimed that all religious folk are ignorant and shouldn't be allowed to hold political office. Kinda funny seeing how he is the one who started the thread on how we discriminate against the poor atheists. Of course it pales in comparison to his hatred towards anyone on the right. He stopped quoting Judge Judy for a long time after I pointed out she was religious, I wonder what would happen if I told him she voted for Sarah?

DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 11:49:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Ms. Jones did not call atheists dumb. She said atheists were unworthy of being in government and were immoral. There was absolutely no negative reaction except from atheists. If she had said the same thing about a religious or ethnic minority she would have been forced to, at minimum, publicly apologize instead she repeated the statement And Brain said that religions are responsible for all the world's violence... talk about your heavy handed rhetoric to demonize people... While you are at it, why not google "religion violence delusion" with "dawkins" ... Interesting bigoted comments from him. I know if it hard to see how the people that agree with you are bigoted (or how you yourself are) and it is easy to see how people are bigoted towards you. People are just funny like that. I never supported Brain's comments. Dawkins is very much over the top, as I've stated previously. Although most of his statements that are claimed to be attacks against the religious turn out to be attacks on religion. For instance he does not call the religious dumb, he says religious ideas are dumb, there is a difference between the two statements. However that evades the point, Brain and Dawkins both are attacked quite freely for their comments by people from across the spectrum of belief while those who denigrate atheists are only confronted by atheists.

thishereboi -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 11:57:24 AM)
quote: Although most of his statements that are claimed to be attacks against the religious turn out to be attacks on religion. For instance he does not call the religious dumb, he says religious ideas are dumb, there is a difference between the two statements. There are a lot of people out there who feel tying a women up is sick, twisted and abusive. Now they are not saying you are sick, twisted and abusive, just the idea you have that it would be fun to do it is bad. Now I am sure you are ok with this because they are not bashing you, they are only bashing the way you live, right?

thishereboi -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 11:59:21 AM)
quote: Brain and Dawkins both are attacked quite freely for their comments by people from across the spectrum of belief while those who denigrate atheists are only confronted by atheists. That is because brain and dawkins are attacking people across the spectrum of belief while those who rip on atheists are only ripping on atheists.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 12:00:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: Although most of his statements that are claimed to be attacks against the religious turn out to be attacks on religion. For instance he does not call the religious dumb, he says religious ideas are dumb, there is a difference between the two statements. There are a lot of people out there who feel tying a women up is sick, twisted and abusive. Now they are not saying you are sick, twisted and abusive, just the idea you have that it would be fun to do it is bad. Now I am sure you are ok with this because they are not bashing you, they are only bashing the way you live, right? So you are saying no one should ever make a statement someone else would disagree with? Your content and tone trolling is tedious but this was spectacularly dumb even for you.

Owner59 -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 1:16:01 PM)
Brain "This is a good article on atheism. Hopefully in the future atheists will be in the majority and religious people in the minority. I'm of the opinion the world at that time will be more peaceful and cooperative. I wonder which states in America are the ones that have the most freedom from religion and if they have a better quality of life. " Brian seems to me as one of the most decent thoughtful posters here,with overflowing good will. But this is a bit panacea-like.Even atheists are human. Atheists can be just as dumb,arrogant,silly,dangerous,greedy,spiteful,spoiled,ignorant,deadly,closed-minded,prejudiced,ill-willed,costly,one-sided,heartless and vile as their theist counterparts. Atheists also have it in them to be loving,benevolent,honest,humble,forthright and generous,as do the observant religious folks.But saying they world would be better with more atheists in it is giving way to much credit. At this point,war/conflict over resources and stuff is giving war over who`s god a run for it`s money.

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