RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post

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juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:37:03 PM)
quote: Please don't assume that just because I don't believe in any God I have to be an 'atheist" (whatever that means). The best description of my beliefs in this area is agnostic. There is no good reason to believe it seems to me. Trying to prove a negative is an exercise in futility. So I haven't got the faintest idea whether there's a God or not, and regard all strong beliefs in this area sceptically. The biggest difference, in my experience, is that non-believers rarely impose their beliefs on others whereas, in my exp, believers have been attempting that all my life. Abortion is one easy example to support my perspective. There are many I am sorry I assumed that, and it was wrong of me... I am agnostic, too, just a little more hopeful that there maybe more to all of it than I can "prove". Either way, it doesn't matter, because I do not believe in hell anyways[:D]

eihwaz -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:40:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Usually, beliefs are held because of the preponderance of evidence affirming the belief. Religious or spiritual faith is an affirmative choice. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not believing in an ideology is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of absence/lack of evidence. Believing in an ideology is at least as much a matter of personal values as of evidence.

eihwaz -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:44:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rawtape ... is that there is no particular reason to "privilege" a thesis about god any more than all the other concepts whose validity or lack thereof is currently not provable... And in what knowledge domain is the god thesis "privileged?" And what does it matter to you what someone's personal religious (or nonreligious) beliefs are?

tweakabelle -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:46:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Science doesn`t start with faith. Science is based on the unprovable assumption that the cosmos is ordered rationally according to universal, discoverable laws. So you could say that science does start with faith. Yeppers. Ultimately science is as much a cult as any other ordered system of thought. It just works better than most. cult: noun 1 a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object: the cult of St Olaf a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members: a network of Satan-worshipping cults a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing: the cult of the pursuit of money as an end in itself 2 a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society: the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK [as modifier] : a cult film http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cult;jsessionid=D46C8A21171FDDDED1D7743665CEE156

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:47:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Science doesn`t start with faith. Science is based on the unprovable assumption that the cosmos is ordered rationally according to universal, discoverable laws. So you could say that science does start with faith. Yeppers. Ultimately science is as much a cult as any other ordered system of thought. It just works better than most. Science is a cultural construct.....

tweakabelle -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:54:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Science is a cultural construct..... Yeppers. It is that too.

Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 8:58:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes Here's what I say when confronted with the question "Why are you so sure there is no gawd?" I question back : Do you believe in Thor? No. Do you believe in Ra, the Egyptian Sun God? No, they sheepishly reply since they can see where we're going.... Do you believe in the gods Neptune or Saturn, Pluto, Mars or Mercury ? No. Well, I simply believe in one less god than you do. In other words, you don't answer the question. [:D] K.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster We don't need to prove anything. We aren't the ones making an assertion that cannot be backed up by any evidence. You don't need to prove anything if you simply don't believe in God. And people who believe in God don't need to prove anything either. But people who declare it to be a fact that there is no God are in the same boat as people who declare it to be a fact that there is one. K. You are right, I don't need to prove that something doesn't exist. And deists don't need to prove there is a god, until they open their mouths. At that point, they are asserting the existence of something for which there is no evidence of. And at that point, I want them to show me some concrete evidence. They cannot. So I conclude that, since there has been, throughout the entire history of Mankind, no proof whatsoever that there is in fact some sort of supernatural phenomenon labelled "God", that there is no such thing. Stating that Rationalists are in the same boat as Supernaturalists is as disingenuous as stating that there is some sort of controversy over Evolution, and that "Intelligent Design" is equally as valid a "point of view", when in fact, any such controvery is manufactured, and there is no evidence whatsoever to support ID. I will also state, apropos of nothing, that I have no duty whatsoever to respect the irrational beliefs of anybody, regardless of how well accepted such beliefs may be by society at large.

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:03:45 PM)
quote: Stating that Rationalists are in the same boat as Supernaturalists is as disingenuous as stating that there is some sort of controversy over Evolution, and that "Intelligent Design" is equally as valid a "point of view", when in fact, any such controvery is manufactured, and there is no evidence whatsoever to support ID. Here you are owning people by naming them, not all people who believe in something larger than themselves believe in intelligent design, not all of them believe that a god concept requires something "supernatural"... if god exists he/she can be nothing but natural.

Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:09:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Stating that Rationalists are in the same boat as Supernaturalists is as disingenuous as... Bullshit. People who issue statements of fact about things they cannot possibly know are imbeciles. It doesn't matter whether they're talking about gods or earthworms. K.

rawtape -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:16:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz quote: ORIGINAL: rawtape ... is that there is no particular reason to "privilege" a thesis about god any more than all the other concepts whose validity or lack thereof is currently not provable... And in what knowledge domain is the god thesis "privileged?" Essentially any knowledge domain in which people concern themselves with the god thesis without paying the same attention to similar concepts whose existence or nonexistence also cannot be verified. Er, did you really find my previous post that abstruse, or are you simply trying to score rhetorical points? quote: ...And what does it matter to you what someone's personal religious (or nonreligious) beliefs are? None whatsoever unless they infringe on my rights or those of other folks. Were you expecting something else?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:18:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Stating that Rationalists are in the same boat as Supernaturalists is as disingenuous as stating that there is some sort of controversy over Evolution, and that "Intelligent Design" is equally as valid a "point of view", when in fact, any such controvery is manufactured, and there is no evidence whatsoever to support ID. Here you are owning people by naming them, not all people who believe in something larger than themselves believe in intelligent design, not all of them believe that a god concept requires something "supernatural"... if god exists he/she can be nothing but natural. Definition of SUPERNATURAL 1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) I never said that all people who "believe in something larger than themselves" believe in intelligent design. I choose my words with care; please read them with the same diligence. (if that sounds like a chastisement, it is)

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:23:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Stating that Rationalists are in the same boat as Supernaturalists is as disingenuous as... Bullshit. People who issue statements of fact about things they cannot possibly know are imbeciles. It doesn't matter whether they're talking about gods or earthworms. K. Which is precisely what I consider your previous statement to be. If you want me to believe in a deity, provide proof. Otherwise, no such thing exists. C'mon, I really want to see that pink unicorn. Without the benefit of Orange Sunshine.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:28:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Science doesn`t start with faith. Science is based on the unprovable assumption that the cosmos is ordered rationally according to universal, discoverable laws. So you could say that science does start with faith. I know of no physicist who believes the universe is "ordered rationally". THat phrase implies some sort of guiding force. There are certainly discoverable laws. There is certainly a sort of "order" to the universe. But "order" and "ordered" are not the same thing.

Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:32:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster If you want me to believe in a deity, provide proof. Otherwise, no such thing exists. Get yourself a fucking windmill to play with. There is nothing in this world about which I give less of a fuck than whether or not you believe in a deity. I have never even claimed that there is one, let alone tried to convince anyone else of such a thing. K.

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:33:08 PM)
quote: Definition of SUPERNATURAL 1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) Some people think that god is an observable phenomena. They believe he is part of the observable order of things. That god does not "transcend" the laws of nature, but is a part of them. From the things you argue you would seem to judge all people who believe in something bigger than themselves as being like Christians.. Now, it seems as though you have a problem with people expressing faith quote: And deists don't need to prove there is a god, until they open their mouths. At that point, they are asserting the existence of something for which there is no evidence of. And at that point, I want them to show me some concrete evidence. They cannot. So I conclude that, since there has been, throughout the entire history of Mankind, no proof whatsoever that there is in fact some sort of supernatural phenomenon labelled "God", that there is no such thing. Perhaps no one cares about showing you jack... it is a free country, after all. I do not understand the hostility of some people towards others because of differences... and the above quote reeks of hostility. Personally speaking, I have no interest in proving anything to anyone. I could care less if people believe in whatever they like, as long as they leave me alone to believe my own thing

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster If you want me to believe in a deity, provide proof. Otherwise, no such thing exists. Get yourself a fucking windmill to play with. There is nothing in this world about which I give less of a fuck than whether or not you believe in a deity. I have never even claimed that there is one, let alone tried to convince anyone else of such a thing. K. No. You carefully tap-dance around the issue without committing to a position, apparently preferring instead to take potshots at those who are either passive Atheists, or are opposed to Deism as a destructive ideology.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:41:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Definition of SUPERNATURAL 1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) Some people think that god is an observable phenomena. They believe he is part of the observable order of things. That god does not "transcend" the laws of nature, but is a part of them. From the things you argue you would seem to judge all people who believe in something bigger than themselves as being like Christians.. Now, it seems as though you have a problem with people expressing faith quote: And deists don't need to prove there is a god, until they open their mouths. At that point, they are asserting the existence of something for which there is no evidence of. And at that point, I want them to show me some concrete evidence. They cannot. So I conclude that, since there has been, throughout the entire history of Mankind, no proof whatsoever that there is in fact some sort of supernatural phenomenon labelled "God", that there is no such thing. Perhaps no one cares about showing you jack... it is a free country, after all. I do not understand the hostility of some people towards others because of differences... and the above quote reeks of hostility. Personally speaking, I have no interest in proving anything to anyone. I could care less if people believe in whatever they like, as long as they leave me alone to believe my own thing Tell me, what is "somthing bigger than one's self"?

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:42:01 PM)
quote: No. You carefully tap-dance around the issue without committing to a position, apparently preferring instead to take potshots at those who are either passive Atheists, or are opposed to Deism as a destructive ideology. So, what should we do with this "destructive ideology"?

juliaoceania -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/19/2011 9:43:08 PM)
quote: Tell me, what is "somthing bigger than one's self"? How the fuck should I know.... I do not define it.

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