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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 5:53:36 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

After all, people choke on marshmallows, so why bother to learn anything at all about safety, right...what could possibly go wrong?




There are instructions for use on a box of toothpicks.

'nuff said.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 7:39:48 PM   
swtrayn


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

It's one of those things that makes me melt.  With that said, it certainly does take a skilled touch to smack the right place and not injure. 


It is sure something that gets my attention, and I admit it makes me melt.

If done to get my attention because I am getting out of control on not wanting to do something or starting to raise my voice or what not. That snaps be instantly back into "my place"

If done during play.. I melt and get beyond hot...

*fans herself*
LOL

rayn


_____________________________

"I tried to contain myself -- I escaped..."

"Make sure brain is engaged before SEND key is released"

"Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead."--Lucille Ball


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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 9:32:35 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		One thing that has been left out as a safety measure for face slapping through 4 pages unless I simply missed it.

When slapping you decrease the chances of injury if to contact only with the fingers not the palm of the hand.
The fingers will bend backwards a little absorbing some of the power of the slap. Gives a little extra marging for amount of force used errors.

(in reply to swtrayn)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 11:24:11 PM   
AZSweetie


Posts: 147
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		You can cause some serious damage if it isn't done properly. People do seem to think that face slapping is like slapping a biotch you're pissed off at. NOT THE SAME..LOL!! It is a skill

Face slapping..Mmmm
:: drools ::

LOL!!

_____________________________

~ Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee, and just as hard to sleep after.

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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 11:46:48 PM   
mastA


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		hello

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/8/2007 11:47:57 PM   
mastA


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		hello,
the best degradation for my sub are spit and face slapping

(in reply to mastA)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 12:50:15 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Anybody get out a good greesy glob of  K-Y Jelly
and bitch slap their partner with it?  Or am I just
the twisted Misfit of the group?




(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 8:39:32 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		Sinergy,

since you seem to be a bit of an expert on this subject, i had a couple of questions for you if you don't mind...

now first i will preface this with the disclaimer that my Master and i do not live by SSC, and that face slapping would never be done in our relationship for the purpose of mutual pleasure of any sort. whew. ok. :)

often when he gives me a "serious" slap, at about cheek level, i very temporarily lose my hearing...say for 30 secs to 1 minute. when he slaps a bit higher, sometimes i "see stars"...you know, the lil lights are just swimming in front of my eyes for a bit. why do these two things happen? and is there any significant (risk of permanent damage) danger in slaps of this severity, assuming they did not get any more firm? 

i have heard many say that one should sort of cup the face to hold it steady with one hand while slapping with the other, and that's something my Master may sometimes do if it's a "love tap" sort of slap, but for disciplinary purposes that's just not going to happen. so maybe i want to learn what may be in store for me?


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 9:00:29 AM   
swtrayn


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Anybody get out a good greesy glob of  K-Y Jelly
and bitch slap their partner with it?  Or am I just
the twisted Misfit of the group?






Yeap you are the twisted Misfit of the group

(giggles)

rayn


_____________________________

"I tried to contain myself -- I escaped..."

"Make sure brain is engaged before SEND key is released"

"Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead."--Lucille Ball


(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 5:42:08 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

I guess I didn't express it clearly enough.  He wasn't being abusive, he wasn't angry, he didn't MEAN what he said about my daughter.  He goaded me into slapping him to teach me that I possessed the strength to stand up for myself and mine...because eventually, I would need that strength, I would need to know that I can stand up.  It was also to teach me that even Master could cross the line, that he can and does make mistakes and that I can and should stand my ground when necessary.  It keeps me from being abused.


Oh, in that case...

I have found teaching women's self defense that the easiest way to get a mother to kick the living crap out of me is to point out that when I am done raping her I am going after her kids.

Hell hath no fury...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 6:09:50 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

Sinergy,

since you seem to be a bit of an expert on this subject, i had a couple of questions for you if you don't mind...



Thank you, hope I can help.

quote:



now first i will preface this with the disclaimer that my Master and i do not live by SSC, and that face slapping would never be done in our relationship for the purpose of mutual pleasure of any sort. whew. ok. :)



Not my place to judge, daddysprop247.  You sound happy in your relationship so I have nothing but support and respect for the niche you and your Master have carved out for yourselves.

On that note, please give him my respects.

quote:



often when he gives me a "serious" slap, at about cheek level, i very temporarily lose my hearing...say for 30 secs to 1 minute.



Well, cheek level involves a slap at the malar fat pad.  Which is not really coincident with the part of the brain dealing with hearing.  I would imagine that you are experiencing a side effect of adrenalin known as "auditory exclusion."  This is simply something that might / might not happen under adrenalin and not to worry about it.

On the other hand, slapping too high might pop the eardrum or damage the primary auditory cortex, which lies behind (approximately) the ear.  This would not make hearing stop on the other side, however.  So I imagine it is auditory exclusion.

quote:



when he slaps a bit higher, sometimes i "see stars"...you know, the lil lights are just swimming in front of my eyes for a bit. why do these two things happen? and is there any significant (risk of permanent damage) danger in slaps of this severity, assuming they did not get any more firm? 



This strikes me as something resulting from brain injury.  Your brain is massively redundant, and if this does not happen overly often I would imagine it will not be much of a problem.  Boxers, after a lifetime of taking rotational blows to the skull do sometimes experience cognitive deficits from the trauma.

My question to you would be whether your head rotates from the blow?  Could ask your Master to cup your head with his non-slapping hand so it does not rotate. 

quote:



i have heard many say that one should sort of cup the face to hold it steady with one hand while slapping with the other, and that's something my Master may sometimes do if it's a "love tap" sort of slap, but for disciplinary purposes that's just not going to happen. so maybe i want to learn what may be in store for me?



Rotational momentum will cause brain damage.  I would not be comfortable doing this to a person, but that is just me.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 8:57:14 PM   
obey1


Posts: 227
Joined: 11/26/2005
Status: offline 		Besides Sinergy, this is all way too ridiculous!

You guys watch too many movies.

If you want to know the right way to slap and 'become an expert' then start slapping yourself in the face with the same energy that you are giving your sub, or whomever.

Are you going to open your hand, let your palm hit your cheekbone and let the fingers fly where they may?  Shit man, I make myself deaf sometimes when I am in a rush for work and take my hands wet with aftershave and slap myself on both cheeks 'way too high' and usually it is my middle finger that rings my eardrum.  YOWZA!  I have ringing in my ears, an utter deafness, and then feel the intense burning from the aftershave on raw skin.  That's really fun for me as a lesson on what not to do to my girl.

Sinergy has it right with the angular momentum.  It is not about bitch slapping someone.  Every single kink we get into can be as dangerous as the roman guard flogging christ, but that should not be what BDSM is about except in undereducated, ignorant, or criminal cases.....

Face slapping is the ultimate show of power.  When it is done right you even get a reflex back from the sub because their hand will twitch.  If it is not restrained properly they might even smack you back.  That shows no cognitive impairment whatsoever.

I DO cup the opposite cheek/jaw if I am delivering multiple petty smacks.  Just as I said above, start smacking yourself in the face a bit, first with a flaccid face, then with a tight face/cheeks.  You'll soon get the picture of what stings enough to get your own attention but you will hardly bruise from it and if you hit your own eyeball or eardrum you'll immediately know it and will realize there is hardly anything erotic about it.  The same could be said for floggers.  Flog yourself in the bare thigh for a bit and you'll get the picture.  This isn't about beating the shit out of someone.

On the other hand (pun intended) if I am slapping a girl to get her attention, which means ONE TIME, I definitely go for the fleshy part of the cheek with my three finger pads (phalanges).  That is the length of two knuckles for you knuckleheads.  Once you enter the metacarpals (third knuckle, used in a punch) you risk a minimum of bruising or a 'fat lip'.  The wrist is also purposely allowed to flex as much as possible.  A limp wrist is better, as this nervous focus will also relax the carpals and metacarpals much more.  The fingers are held together firmly and not allowed to seperate as that is what flies into eyeballs and ears.

I also turn my hand anguarly upward so that my wrist is most extended at the pinky, and the thumb is pointing towards your own face as you execute.  This allows my forearm and elbow to swing below the jaw, and it is the weight of the forearm that delivers damaging blows, not the weight of the hand delivered through the fingers.  We want the carpals and wrist to pass underneath the jaw, if even for a few centimeters.  This lessens the shockwave.  I also make sure that I strike downward so my hand is already returning to my waist instead of straight across from right to left which includes extending the arm, resembles more of a punch, and activates the pectoral muscle and triceps which increases forces greatly.  This will definitely deliver a rotational blow to the head.

Finally, the force is delivered through only the forearm.  No muscles should be activated above the elbow except the rotator cuff and a quick stiffening twitch from the biceps.  If you are stiffening your upper arm (biceps, triceps, brachialis) then you are connecting the hit to your torso like trying to smack a ball in tennis or baseball.  A face slap is a little forearm, and alot of wrist.  Once committed, the wrist goes limp to absorb the blow.  It is like hitting someone with a neatly folded damp dishrag.

You have to concentrate or practice so that you are not using more muscles and bones than necessary.  Use only the forearm and wrist, cock the hand upwards, strike the cheek from above anguarly downwards with the phalanges (fingerpads) only and avoid as much contact with your metacarpals as possible.  Practice on yourself in the mirror, and never hit someone harder than what you yourself can stand by your own strength.

"Gee, I didn't know my own strength."  -Asshole

< Message edited by obey1 -- 3/9/2007 9:31:19 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 9:43:29 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		Sinergy,

thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, without judgement. i will certainly pass on all the information you have given to my Master.

to answer your question, when i see stars yes my head does rotate, usually because those particular blows are always unexpected. they always make me stumble or fall down. but if i sense that a slap is coming i will involuntarily tense my face and my head won't jar so much, although the pain will be worse.

also i wanted to clarify what i meant by "cheek level"...his hand lands in a way so that it partially covers my cheek, upper jaw, and ear. He would never hit me square on the cheek for disciplinary purposes, as it's not all that shocking or painful. the deaf thing always sort of freaks me out. i cannot say for sure whether it's a deafness in both ears or just in one...but it's usually a total silence followed by a period of a few minutes where it's a low humming or buzzing, although if someone is loud i can still hear them over it. my Master told me once about a fight he was in back in high school, where a classmate sitting behind him all of a sudden slapped him hard across the side of his head, and he went deaf for a minute or so. it sounded just like what happens to me, so i was curious as to what causes such a thing and how likely it is to lead to anything serious. if it is just auditory exclusion as you say, then that would be a relief.

of course i do not think i take quite as much head trauma as a boxer, so hopefully there is nothing to worry about.

< Message edited by daddysprop247 -- 3/9/2007 9:45:24 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/9/2007 10:37:01 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Obey1 really came out and said it best, in terms of the art of slapping.
I myself have tried shit out on myself before doing it to another person. learned this years ago, about the time I was 13.  Does not take too much rocket science to understand why to try it out on yourself.  You can slowly work up and get a good feel for what you are doing.

Obey1 mentioned about how to it, and the techniques behind it.  If anybody has had even the smallest amount of Martial Arts training you should know the concept behind hitting somebody, and hitting them to fuck them up.

In a sense, us BDSMers should have something in common with the martial artists. that is know how to hit, slap, punch or otherwise inflict a blow to somebody without fucking them up.  Also knowing what will. 

You can even attend BDSM workshops on the as well.  You can buy BDSM books online, which should help. Check out websites as well.  If all else fails starting looking into Martial Arts books and things.  You'd be amazed at the control you can have when hitting somebody, or putting them into holds and whatnot.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 6:45:57 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

Sinergy,

thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, without judgement. i will certainly pass on all the information you have given to my Master.



My pleasure, daddysprop247.

quote:



to answer your question, when i see stars yes my head does rotate, usually because those particular blows are always unexpected. they always make me stumble or fall down. but if i sense that a slap is coming i will involuntarily tense my face and my head won't jar so much, although the pain will be worse.



Fair enough.  You are probably experiencing the results of brain bounce trauma to the brain.  Tensing your face and head might work.  Have you ever heard of the concept of slipping a punch?  Rather than tense for the blow, you relax and start moving your body / head in the direction the blow is going to move the skull anyway.  This works because the accelaration from 0 to whatever is a bigger number than the accelaration from 1 to whatever.  Since force is mass times the square of acceleration, anything you can do to lower the value for acceleration is worthwhile.

A good example of this happened in class the other night.  I was doing a drill where the student repeatedly knees me in the groin.  So the student steps in and heel palms me in the face.  Happily, I have extensive experience slipping punches and walked away from it with a fat lip.

quote:



also i wanted to clarify what i meant by "cheek level"...his hand lands in a way so that it partially covers my cheek, upper jaw, and ear.



If the palm cups your ear, the pressure differential might pop your eardrum.  This causes vertigo, possible bleeding out of the ear, increased risk of inner ear infections for the rest of your life, and decreased ability to hear over time.

I tend to avoid hitting in the area of the ear.  But then, I am only slapping for fun.

quote:



He would never hit me square on the cheek for disciplinary purposes, as it's not all that shocking or painful.



Depending on how hard one hits, it can be quite shocking or painful.

quote:



the deaf thing always sort of freaks me out. i cannot say for sure whether it's a deafness in both ears or just in one...but it's usually a total silence followed by a period of a few minutes where it's a low humming or buzzing,
although if someone is loud i can still hear them over it.



Sounds exactly like auditory exclusion.

Our students have a similar thing going on during our fights.  They generally cannot really hear what I am saying to them, and the female instructor is behind her head yelling into her ear about how to respond to me to make me go away.

I love imprinting on the limbic system.

quote:



my Master told me once about a fight he was in back in high school, where a classmate sitting behind him all of a sudden slapped him hard across the side of his head, and he went deaf for a minute or so. it sounded just like what happens to me, so i was curious as to what causes such a thing and how likely it is to lead to anything serious. if it is just auditory exclusion as you say, then that would be a relief.

of course i do not think i take quite as much head trauma as a boxer, so hopefully there is nothing to worry about.


Hearing issues are probably auditory exclusion.  Seeing stars is probably coup contre-coup stuff.

Former not a problem, latter a problem over time or severity.  Think of it this way, if you have 100 coupons for get out of brain damage free, and somebody drops a brick on your head, you use all your coupons. If you lose one coupon each time you take a full-power smack to the head, eventually you run out of coupons.

I would suggest you ask your Daddy consider where he slaps you, and research possible sequelae from that.

Please give my regards to your Daddy.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 7:36:09 AM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, verbal abuse takes some work. Particularly if you're trying to make it erotic. So, yes, there are levels of subtlety and quality.

I'm not crazy about the term "expert" used here, either, but Americans have become increasingly flip about "expertise" in recent years, so it's probably appropriate. I'll let philosophy and pedagogy work out the exact nature of "expertise."

As one of the many previous posters may have already written, there's a lot more to impact play on the face than hauling off and whacking. If you're going to hit hard, you should review some facial anatomy. You should consider how hitting from different angles, and with different parts of your hand, and with different degrees of tension in your hand change the sensation. Punching is also something to consider. You may even want to use toys. Straps, riding crops, and light canes can be used on the face with care. Then there's the mental portion. Sometimes face slapping isn't about the sensation, but about emotions. If you want to deal specifically with emotions, you must deliberately use speech and nonverbal expression to project different moods, such as indifference, intimacy, or anger.

Monica

(in reply to knees2you)
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RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 9:46:05 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I would consider myself an expert, and possibly for that reason it isn't a practice I'm eager to engage in - I have what are called "hard hands". The skull is the hardest bone in the body, but that's because it holds the most vulnerable organs, the brain, the eyes, etc. - adn I have broken guys faces before in fights, there are thin spots, the spurs of the cheekbones, etc, that can be broken with the proper leverage.

There are also extensive nerve ganglia in the face - nobody mentioned nerve damage, but that too is a possibility.

Obey 1 probobly has the right idea, use the only the first two phalanges, and go for the fleshy part of the cheekbone - in order to maximise the "slap" effect, the idea is to distribute the point of contact as widely as possible, i.e., the greatest surface area in order to distribute the force to the skin, and not concentrate it into a single point of contact which will maximise the point force of the blow. Bringing even the pad beneath the knuckles into it can easily double the force of the blow.

Just below this area there is a fairly extensive ganglia, which is probobly why daddysprop loses her hearing temporarily after being slapped - repeated often enough, this could result in permenant hearing damage. It's entirely possible to knock somebody out by applying force to the jaw which drives the opposite hinge of the jaw up into this ganglia, in fact this is the standard technique and goal for knockouts in boxing.

You should be careful even with a limp hand however, can actually deliver more force with a limp wrist - like getting hit with rolled up wet towel, which unlike a hard object, will not bounce off the bone but deliver a considerable amount of hydrostatic shock - it's said that the mob used to beat guys to death with a sack of oranges because it would cause extensive internal damage without leaving bruises.


< Message edited by Amaros -- 3/10/2007 10:05:00 AM >

(in reply to mp072004)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 11:21:31 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

often when he gives me a "serious" slap, at about cheek level, i very temporarily lose my hearing...say for 30 secs to 1 minute. when he slaps a bit higher, sometimes i "see stars"...you know, the lil lights are just swimming in front of my eyes for a bit. why do these two things happen? and is there any significant (risk of permanent damage) danger in slaps of this severity, assuming they did not get any more firm? 

I am glad you asked this question as I sometimes experience the same.  Once I had blurred vision in my eye for a couple of days, which was a concern. 

I am also glad Sinergy took the time to explain such effects.

quote:


i have heard many say that one should sort of cup the face to hold it steady with one hand while slapping with the other, and that's something my Master may sometimes do if it's a "love tap" sort of slap, but for disciplinary purposes that's just not going to happen. so maybe i want to learn what may be in store for me?

I don't think he has ever cupped my face to hold it steady.  Then again I'm not being knocked across the room, either, so I absorb the blow.  Sometimes they come at me so fast - one hand then the other in rapid fire to both sides of my face - that I am completely overwhelmed and think I might pass out.  Rarely is my ear knocked, but when it is, it's quite startling.

I love all of it.  I get in a mode when I just want him to pummel my face after that.  Of course, he wants my face in tact so he doesn't do that.

I must admit I chuckled a bit when hearing the instructions of not letting one's fingers fly wildly when delivering a slap.  I had this thought of this thread being about preventing the dom from injuring himself as he slaps the hell of his sub.  Dom safety, ya know.


(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 3:30:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		While I agree that it does seem unusual to label oneself as an "expert" in face-slapping, it does take practice to do it right without injury and without leaving marks that will not be easily explained the next day at work.

As Sinergy has noted, it is easy to cause TMJ problems, other dental problems, hearing problems, and a contre-coups injury.  I have seen cases where I would have sworn the person had been in an auto accident or some sort of fall where they struck their head only to have the person tell me that "No, they had not been".  In going back through old notes and texts, I found the answers.  I then applied it to my own playing field.

It can be a hell of an attention getter...it can be a hell of a lot of fun...it can certainly be an instant means of physical discipline...and it can certainly cause injury if not done properly.  Like anything else, I practice with it on other things besides humans when I have not been at play for awhile and I would always start out slowly and carefully when I have not used it in awhile.  That's MOO...take it for what it is worth to you.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Face Slapping. Your an Expert!? - 3/10/2007 5:10:35 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I really don't think about this in terms if I am an expert or not.  I always take into consideration that I could fuck things up.  Over confidence, tends to lead to situations that get out of control.

I take into consider thing like timing, and care in what the fuck I am doing. I like to get inside the bottoms head, and imagine what they are going through.  I acutally think this is 9 10th's of the trick anyways.

For me, the whole experince to that of creating a song or drawing a picture.  Every moment and action counts for something. The pressure and techniques used matters.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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