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RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 10:49:17 AM

bamabbwsub

Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
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Well said, Michael!!

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 21

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 12:07:50 PM

UberBrat

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/14/2011
Status: offline

My Dom and I have only been in a relationship a relatively short time, however I have never said "no" or used a safeword, and I don't expect I ever will. If my Dom wants to do something to me, or wants me to do something - regardless of whether I like it or not - i find it very difficult to think of a situation in which I would downright refuse him, or safeword. I trust him to look after me, mentally and physically, and not have me doing anything that would damage me. I know I'm not going to like everything he tells me to do, and some things I'll probably really hate - but, ultimately, he's in control, and I'm okay with that.

However, my desire to please and never to refuse/safeword is maybe not realistic. Last week, I was being suspended when I began to lose circulation in my hands - i stupidly didn't safeword, and when he realised that, he was annoyed with me for not doing so. But, honestly, he was happy, and so I wasnt really thinking of how safe my wrists were.

(in reply to bamabbwsub)

Post #: 22

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 12:38:07 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Lots of ways to deal with your issue but the one I tell people is look at it this way. If someone freezes, it means they have an issue and that issues hasn't been solved with past partners. Here is your chance to stand head and shoulders above all she has been with before, be understanding, be constructive, help her through it and she is going to look at you in a whole new way. Be the same dick her ex partners are and well, you are likely to be though of as another of her ex partners...

I agree, but it isn't always about past partners. Sometimes people get mentally/emotionally tripped up about the present, and that can impede an ability to freely go forward with something, without dealing with the issue, first.

But yes, how it's handled (by everyone involved) is everything.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 23

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 3:47:33 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I don't say no to him. Obedience is the most important aspect of our relationship.
BTW...I'm in a relationship with him for many reasons.
One of the top ones is that he makes great decisions in all aspects of his life.
He's not a douche. He cares for me. He wouldn't ever purposefully cause me harm, either mentally or physically.
So I'm not ever worried that the next words out of his mouth are going to be anything along the lines of "jump" or "go grab me that old bone saw that I have in the closet".
Therefore...my answer to whatever he wants is always yes.

Do you consider having someone with strong enough judgement that you never "need" to say "No" to to be same as forfeiting the right to say "no"?

No. I purposely looked for someone who had great judgement. It was clear as day when we started this relationship that saying no was not part of it.
It is never a competition between us to get me to do things just because he can.
When he tells me to do something he expects it done. When he tells me to do something it means that it is important to him and it is now my top priority.

I can't imagine anything physically that he could request of me that I would say no to.
Emotionally either.

_____________________________

(in reply to DecadentDesire)

Post #: 24

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 4:02:28 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Let me pare this down to it's bare essence: I do not say no to him, he does say no to me.

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 25

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/25/2011 4:22:27 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
If I can't trust someone to tell me NO when she needs to, how can I trust her when she says YES?

You know, this used to be true for Carol and I. But at some point it needed to change. At some point I had to take responsibility for the "no" if I wanted the additional authority. If you consider the implications of Carol's 3 rules...

What Jeff thinks is right, IS right.
What Jeff thinks is good, IS good.
What Jeff thinks is proper, IS proper.

you'd see that it isn't a question of honesty... it's a question of getting so far into the submission that she isn't going to necessarily see when "no" should've been said. She'll turn it into a "What Jeff thinks is right, IS right." moment. So if I want that type/degree/level/whatever of submission then I must take the corresponding responsibility. This was actually a sticky wicket for us but in the end we decided to remove the safety nets and see how things went.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 26

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 12:51:24 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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But that wasnt overnight, right Jeff?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 27

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 12:56:26 AM

avena

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/4/2010
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I have several times now found myself in a position where I was unable or unwilling, for whatever reason, to do something that D had asked of me. Generally, the look on my face and my body language as I froze and stared at him in shock and apprehension were enough that I didn't NEED to say no. He knew instantly that he'd asked for something beyond my ability and comfort zone, and we either worked through it, or he redirected me to something else.

I have, however, used the phrase "I'd really rather not" as well as "I don't want to, but you want me to, so I will". In the first case, depending on the situation, he usually either wants to know why I don't want to do something and then tells me to do it anyway, or else just simply gives me that look - the one where he makes me feel about an inch and a half tall, that tells me he knows I'm more than capable of doing what he's asked me to do, and if I don't get off my arse and do it, then I won't be sitting on my arse at all for a while. In the second case he usually waits until I'm done whatever it is, then thanks or praises me. It's not quite second nature for me to go against what I want, just to please him. But it's getting there.

I can count on three fingers the number of times I have actually used the word NO with D, and meant it. The first time he trod over the line of a hard limit for me. It was early in the relationship and he was using it as a mind fuck, with no intention of actually following through. He's a lot more careful about that kind of 'teasing' now. I don't react well to it...

The second time I told him no, I was so physically exhausted from a long day, and then several hours of play, that I couldn't actually physically do what it was he asked. I don't even actually remember this particular incident. He told me about it the next morning. Apparently I opened one eye, looked at him, blinked, said no quite clearly, then fell deeply asleep. He had to physically move me so I wasn't hogging the bed, since he couldn't even wake me up enough to get me to roll over.

The third time (which actually happened quite recently) I was ill. Giving a blow job with sinuses congested, nose completely blocked and running at the same time...just the thought was enough to make me flat out say no. How in the heck am I supposed to breathe??? Besides, the thought of snot running down my face and down his cock as I was swallowing his cock was enough to make me gag, repeatedly.

As for how he reacted each time I actually said no...well, there was a reason each time. He accepts that I have limitations, some of the are short term and some will need to be worked on for a long period if they're ever to be overcome. He's not here to push me harder than I can handle. He wants me happy and healthy with him, so even though he's 'the boss' and he 'makes the rules', he's still human and he acknowledges that he makes mistakes. We talk, we cuddle, then we move on.

My reaction to not obeying, either immediately or at all, tends to be one of self-reproach and recrimination. I'm much harder on myself than D ever is on me. I'm human and I make mistakes, but the driving force in my life right now is the need to see that pleased little smile on D's face. Doing something that puts the opposite expression - the disappointed frown, on his face devistates me.

(in reply to Asherscorp1)

Post #: 28

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 6:12:51 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
I can't imagine anything physically that he could request of me that I would say no to.
Emotionally either.

I suffer occasionally from vertigo. Usually if my sinuses are acting up. He can't tell that from looking at me. So on one of those days when I can feel it looming, I can't even lay flat on the bed with my head hanging down. I've had to say no to that, explain why, and then let him decide what other position he would prefer.

It's not a big thing, but it happens.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 29

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 9:07:30 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
But that wasnt overnight, right Jeff?

Uh... NO :)

It was over the second 2 years of our 4 year long collar and it's still an ongoing process to settle in. I personally would think anyone who'd contemplate such a thing overnight (read that as... with insufficient reason to trust/respect) is asking for trouble.

My point to Micheal was only that while I think his comment is generally sound, there are other ways to view it and, at least for us, that mode of thinking became an impediment more than a boon at some point along the way. Carol doesn't need to protect herself from me... I need to protect her.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 30

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 9:35:17 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

She ain't allowed to say no.
She can, has, and will (I expect) plead extenuating circumstances, which I may or may not agree with, depending on the situation. But a flat out no is disobedience, period.
Now if I'm stupid enough to ask her something when she's asleep and she fails to comply,or something equally impossible, that's on me for being a moron.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 31

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 7:10:19 PM

aromanholiday

Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1
Do you sometimes find yourself unable to obey an order, not out of willfull disobedience, but because you are simply too scared, revolted, shocked to do so?

Not so far, but I expect that situations that tempt me to say No will eventually come up, as I have have at least one phobia. When they do, I think a good way to handle them will be to remember that there are far worse things than whatever I want to say No to. Things like immediate dismissal. I find that putting things in their proper perspective helps me when trying accomplish anything difficult, bdsm-related or not.

"My question is, has anyone else had this experience and how did your Master handle it?"

Although I haven't experienced this yet, I would hope that, should it happen, a master would help me by standing firm and reminding me of what I had committed to. I think a brief reminder about this would be enough to shake me out of my own inwardly-focused spiraling fears, and do the right thing.

_____________________________

"Isn't it odd how we misunderstand the hidden unity of kindness and cruelty?"

My profile is not turned off. It is broken and I am too lazy to make a new one.

(in reply to Asherscorp1)

Post #: 32

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 8:07:58 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

~nods nods

Knew that. Sometimes, at least to me, its just good to spell that out every once in a while for the noobies who read.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 33

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/26/2011 8:09:06 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

OK Kana... I just gotta ask. What if the appropriate answer IS no?

~grins

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 34

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 2:54:00 AM

AneNoz

Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline

Please forgive my weakness of English. I am Her Beloved Helena

As the request is to the slave, My Love and My Life has to me given a chance to respond directly.

Her Beloved Miryam and I have not the right to refuse, we can not say no.

In case of a not sexual or sadomaso but a controlling command I will say with no begging, when I feel I not will be able to perform what was told, because I do not want to fail My Love and My Life. I feel no guilty because it is my duty to inform My Love and My Life if is not within my abilities. My limitation are me, this is how the Goddess has created me. If the order is beyond my abilities, and to accept without making this clear would be misleading. The desires of My Love and My Life are to be satisfied, and if myself are not able to do so, She deserve to know this, so She can make arrangements to do otherwise.

If the work is a nature of sexual or sadomaso, then is simply obeyed, regardless of what it means. But here I am often asking to be spared, for when I am afraid, But obey still with the begging. Once more again I not feel guilty, the Goddess of My Love and My Life was make me with weaknesses and gaps as was chosen for me. I see and accept these, also does My Love and My Life the same.

I wish you will understand what I try to mean.

(in reply to Asherscorp1)

Post #: 35

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 3:03:49 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

OK Kana... I just gotta ask. What if the appropriate answer IS no?

~grins

Example please...

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 36

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 3:25:34 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
I can't imagine anything physically that he could request of me that I would say no to.
Emotionally either.

I suffer occasionally from vertigo. Usually if my sinuses are acting up. He can't tell that from looking at me. So on one of those days when I can feel it looming, I can't even lay flat on the bed with my head hanging down. I've had to say no to that, explain why, and then let him decide what other position he would prefer.

It's not a big thing, but it happens.

Oh come on now. You know that we're not talking about stuff like that.
I've made it pretty clear over the last three years that I'm in a realistic relationship with a grounded guy who doesn't request unrealistic stuff.
I have a torn rotator cuff. He knows I can't be tied with my arm over my head or my shoulders pulled back too far.
But if he does tell me to do something that I have no physical reason not to, I better be doing it.
And if he tells me to shut it, I better shut it.
I can't be in a relationship where I trust him half ass or only when it's convenient.
I either trust him completely even when things make me uncomfortable or I don't.
If I don't, then we're both out of there.

_____________________________

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 37

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 3:32:21 AM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

I'm with Aileen here!

I went into my relationship knowing that eventually he wants full control. We're working towards that, but one of the first steps was to remove the word 'no' from my vocabulary in response to his commands.

Yet I have used that word 3 times. All 3 times were because I was unable to do as he asked for good reason.

The first, I had an unexpected call about my sick father and had to dash over to see him instead of doing what Master told me to do. He was supportive and understanding.

The second time, we were playing and I wasn't feeling well. That was not acceptable. Not because I was ill, but because I didn't tell him beforehand, as soon as I knew. We stopped play, he looked after me, and when I was well a few days later I was punished.

The third time, I forgot to tell him I was due a pap smear so had to go light on the bruising. Again, I was punished at a later date for not telling him.

He had clearly told me that I needed to keep him updated about stuff like that, and it was my bad because I failed to do so.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 38

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 3:57:43 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Be the same dick her ex partners are and well, you are likely to be though of as another of her ex partners...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 39

RE: No such thing as "no" - 6/27/2011 9:46:13 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Example please...

Do you want pizza for dinner?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 40

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