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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 3:40:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ah. So all this is over that one event?

I think I'll stick to my original assessment of the depth of your political analysis.


No, that is the particular incident only. You asked the question.

It has been the hallmark of his entire administration to shut out the GOP whenever he can.

"Elections have consequence"
"Back of the bus"

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:19:58 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

Israel matters in American elections.



That's definitely true, FDD, and that's what's troubling me. Shouldn't people be voting for the good of the U.S., not putting another country first?


They are.....What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:21:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

Israel matters in American elections.



That's definitely true, FDD, and that's what's troubling me. Shouldn't people be voting for the good of the U.S., not putting another country first?


They are.....What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America




enter Tweetybelle......

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:22:21 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama wont sit down with the GOP but he will sit down with the Muslim Brotherhood. And HS puts Israel on the list of sponsors of terrorism. Any Jew who votes for Obama is brain dead.


You didnt say anything about Bush talking to the Muslim brotherhood. Hypocrisy springs to mind as a reason.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:23:26 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America


100 percent of the time? That seems an extraordinary alignment of interests.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:25:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama wont sit down with the GOP but he will sit down with the Muslim Brotherhood. And HS puts Israel on the list of sponsors of terrorism. Any Jew who votes for Obama is brain dead.


You didnt say anything about Bush talking to the Muslim brotherhood. Hypocrisy springs to mind as a reason.


No, unfamiliarity. Of course knowing your MO they probably are nowhere near analagous, just some asinine spin. But if he did state that they would be treated as a legitimate party that doesnt embrace violence, I'd criticize him just as harshly.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:32:26 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, unfamiliarity. Of course knowing your MO they probably are nowhere near analagous, just some asinine spin. But if he did state that they would be treated as a legitimate party that doesnt embrace violence, I'd criticize him just as harshly.


Just to help you understand spin, I have quoted an example of spin and backtracking, sweety.

Like i said, I saw no complaints from you, FDD or Sanity regards Bush talking to the Muslim Brotherhood. They have ducked the issue but you have decided to make yourself look stupid by claiming infamiliarity.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:38:39 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America


100 percent of the time? That seems an extraordinary alignment of interests.


Pretty much

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 5:59:53 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America


100 percent of the time? That seems an extraordinary alignment of interests.


Pretty much



You'll have to explain to me how the US benefits from say, the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank.... Or the precise interest and benefit the US has in alliance with a State that is widely regarded as a rogue State.... Or how the US gains from Israel's decades long refusal to implement UN Resolutions .... Or the precise US interest or benefit in antagonising virtually the entire Muslim world ..... Or the US interest or benefit in designing US Middle Eastern policy to favour one small resourceless nation of c7 million and alienating the hundreds of millions in every other State in the region ....

I for one am unable to see any US interest or benefit in any of the above (and that's just for starters - there's a lot more).

To me it appears self evident that, in realpolitik terms, US policy in the region would regard ensuring the supply of oil to the US as its top priority. Are you suggesting that the Israeli alliance achieves this? If so how? If not, then US and Israeli interests are far from identical aren't they?

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 6:17:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, unfamiliarity. Of course knowing your MO they probably are nowhere near analagous, just some asinine spin. But if he did state that they would be treated as a legitimate party that doesnt embrace violence, I'd criticize him just as harshly.


Just to help you understand spin, I have quoted an example of spin and backtracking, sweety.

Like i said, I saw no complaints from you, FDD or Sanity regards Bush talking to the Muslim Brotherhood. They have ducked the issue but you have decided to make yourself look stupid by claiming infamiliarity.




I didnt "claim" anything untrue.

Edit: And I still dont see anything you posted.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/1/2011 6:19:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 6:20:10 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

Israel matters in American elections.



That's definitely true, FDD, and that's what's troubling me. Shouldn't people be voting for the good of the U.S., not putting another country first?


They are.....What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America



The big question is why, why is what is good for Isreal , is also good the the United States of America ?

I defy you to answer.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 8:29:39 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It is not. Any idiot can see that. The Arabs, their enemies, have the oil. So why does our government suck their ass and wipe it off after ? Mail me, because the only fucking thing that is going to come out here in the forum is an organization called AIPAC. Read their website and their stated goals and get back to me.

And what about the link ? Guy is from Harvard after all. Dismissed ? Well then I can dismiss other things.

You think you're dealing with an asshole here you are sadly mistaken. Despite my not so great financial situation, I am trumptight. And yes the word trump was a word before Trump. I know the fucking game. They got seven Queens and we got four Pawns. It's really not that hard to figure out.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 8:54:02 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America


100 percent of the time? That seems an extraordinary alignment of interests.


Pretty much

Quite simply.....bullshit,but no big surprise coming from you.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 9:26:21 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		But you won't respond to ME.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 9:28:57 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"It has been the hallmark of his entire administration to shut out the GOP whenever he can."

And that is the basis for his support.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 10:58:25 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		"For starters, many Americans recognize that one-sided support for Israel is a problem for the United States, and that figure is even higher among "opinion leaders." A Pew survey in November 2005 found that 39 percent of Americans saw the special relationship as a "major source of global discontent," and 78 percent of the news media, 72 percent of military leaders and 69 percent of foreign affairs specialists believed that backing Israel seriously damages America's image around the world. A 2003 survey by the University of Maryland reported that over 60 percent of Americans would be willing to withhold aid to Israel if it resisted pressure to settle the conflict with the Palestinians, and 73 percent said the United States should not favor either side. In fact, a survey conducted by the Anti-Defamation League in 2005 found that 78 percent of Americans believed that Washington should favor neither Israel nor the Palestinians. A 2010 survey by the Brookings Institution found similar results: although 25 percent of Americans thought the United States should "lean toward Israel" in its efforts to resolve the conflict, a healthy 67 percent believed the United States should "lean toward neither side.""
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28248.htm (T ^ T's link)

This would seem to suggest that the support for Israel among the American people is far more nuanced than AIPAC would have us think. Possibly it might reflect more the millions AIPAC 'donates' to candidates than the view of the populace. It's difficult to argue that AIPAC has not been one of the more effective lobby groups.

But that's a very different thing to arguing that the US's unconditional support of Israel is in the US's interests ..... or as some here have argued, that US and Israeli interests are "pretty much" identical.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 11:02:21 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		There is ALOT more.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 11:11:37 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


They are.....What is good for Israel is also good for The United States of America




enter Tweetybelle......


I've been here since page 1 Willbur (post #9 if you want to check).

Speaking of checking, your claim that "HS puts Israel on the list of sponsors of terrorism" was news to me. Is there any chance of you supplying a link to back it up? Or is this another instance of phantasmic machinations of your unique personal brand of political analysis?

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/1/2011 11:24:53 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Tweaks, they also stand in ignorance of the forty some UN resolutions Israel stands in violation of, as if it doesn't matter. But it seems to matter to the other signatories. Oh well, they are SPHESHIUL.

One day someone is going to get something into the compound in the Negev Desert and shit will happen. We will have our glass parking lot, and it couldn't be a better location.

Pretty much centraly located and all that, home to numerous airports and all that. Nothing would be better.

If you think I'm kidding, you have no idea how the world works. Alliances can change overnight, and if not for the efforts of the Israeli based groups in the US, we would've dropped them like a hot fucking potato in 1967, Remember 1967 ? I was seven years old. I don't remember it, how do you expect anyone else to remember it ? But the old Men TALKED. (USS Liberty)

Let them die by the history that they will never know. Unholy alliances, or those with bad intent. It's been the downfall of many societies, and I am ready. The ain't. The will do the suffering.

Let it be, let it be. Whisper words of wisdom, let it be. Hear the sounds of Mother Nature, coming down for thee, and realize that it's not for me, not for me. It's for thee.

(not you)

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/2/2011 3:12:04 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I didnt "claim" anything untrue.

Edit: And I still dont see anything you posted.


A simple search will show you that the Bush administration made contact with the MB in Egypt.

Why do you give him a free pass and not President Obama ?  Its a multiple choice answer, arrogance, stupidity or ignorance.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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