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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/4/2011 7:55:54 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"It isn't stretching things at all to describe the Israeli Govt as an organised crime operation. "

And ours.

T^T

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/5/2011 7:46:45 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Two other posters recently offered a link to the same story: Jewish Dems losing faith in Obama.

A very funny thing about the politico article that started all this
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148373/Solid-Majority-Jewish-Americans-Approve-Obama.aspx

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 12:54:57 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


A very funny thing about the politico article that started all this
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148373/Solid-Majority-Jewish-Americans-Approve-Obama.aspx


I'm amazed DK, that you are unwilling or unable to nominate a single benefit that the US derives from its Israeli alliance. I was under the impression that you were quite talented at thinking up reasons for promoting Israel and its interests. You're not having second thoughts about it are you?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/7/2011 12:57:58 AM >

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 1:17:44 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Tweaky, he can't. Nobody can. Consider their influence since 1967, don't even bother to go back to 1948. They sunk our ship goddammit. And even our asshole President cowered at their money. Except for a little bit of success here and there, things have been going downhill ever since.

And it's not all Jews in any atretch of the imagination. Understand that for one the average Jew on the street sees little or nothing of our foreign aid. It goes to the military. They do not all support their government, just like we do not here. Just ask the hundreds of Israeli reservists in their jails for refusing another tour of duty on the west bank, etcetera.

It's a fucking class war. The upper class wants more. It really is that simple and THAT is what makes it an "unholy" alliance, not what Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Wiess says, nor the Neutra whatever. It is bad for the planet. I am fucking sick of it. They made the problem, they wanted the problem, let them deal with the problem. Just like we did with the Natives here.

And next time, tell us to pull our recon ship(s) out and not fucking sink the motherfuckers like they did in 1967. OH, I dwell on that ? Well they fucking all want to dwell on INJUSTICE, like the supposed six million. Well why do they deserve justice but nobody else ? They want money now. I say call fucking J. G. Wentworth.

T^T

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 2:22:06 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		T ^ T, I wasn't aware of the USS Liberty incident until you mentioned it. It's horrifying! I came across this account from a survivor, who is now part of the freedom for Gaza flotilla, a few days ago:

"I am one of the Americans waiting in Athens for the Freedom Flotilla
to get underway in our effort to deliver humanitarian supplies to the
people of Gaza. I was also on the Flotilla last year and was aboard
the USS Liberty when the ship was attacked by Israel on June 8, 1967.

A few years ago at my request you issued a proclamation honoring the
crew of the USS Liberty.

When I submitted the request I ensured you were aware of the
atrocities that were committed against us. I made sure you were
aware that we were attacked by unmarked aircraft; that our radios were
jammed on both US Navy tactical and international maritime distress
frequencies; that our life rafts were deliberately machine gunned in
the water by the attacking Israeli torpedo boats; that when they
ceased their attack the Israeli torpedo boats departed the scene for
over an hour leaving the crew of a torpedoed and sinking ship with no
chance of survival had our ship gone down.

I also ensured you were aware that two flights of rescue aircraft that
had been launched from nearby Sixth Fleet aircraft carriers were
recalled while we were still under attack and calling for help which
allowed the Israelis to continue their attack unhampered by the threat
of Sixth Fleet intervention."

Excerpt from "Open letter to Gov. Rick Perry on the flotilla from a survivor of the USS Liberty attack" Jul 03, 2011 Joe Meadors

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961&id=e5be7eaef3&e=033310bb29

I have to wonder why all those Congress people who so cravenly fawned on Netanyahu and embarrassed their President, and their country in the eyes of the world recently, are silent about this. I wouldn't offering unconditional support and standing ovations to the PM of the country who did that.

And if the Israelis are prepared to commit war crimes against the USA, which isn't exactly defenceless, just imagine what they're going to do to the Palestinians, who are virtually defenceless. Some ally! With friends like this who needs enemies?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/7/2011 2:29:49 AM >

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 5:14:15 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"It isn't stretching things at all to describe the Israeli Govt as an organised crime operation. "

And ours.

T^T


"What done by one man is called crime, done by many is called government"
Robert Anton Wilson.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 5:45:15 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

And if the Israelis are prepared to commit war crimes against the USA, which isn't exactly defenceless, just imagine what they're going to do to the Palestinians, who are virtually defenceless. Some ally! With friends like this who needs enemies?



that's kinda my thought on it, yeah.


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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 6:41:14 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Support for Blowboy amongst Jews has dropped 22 points since the election which, assuming propotional turnout, cuts his margin in Fla in half. Yoiu can only fool all of the people some of the time.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 7:04:18 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


A very funny thing about the politico article that started all this
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148373/Solid-Majority-Jewish-Americans-Approve-Obama.aspx


I'm amazed DK, that you are unwilling or unable to nominate a single benefit that the US derives from its Israeli alliance. I was under the impression that you were quite talented at thinking up reasons for promoting Israel and its interests. You're not having second thoughts about it are you?

You do know that sometimes people don't feel like dealing with your bullshit?

But to answer your silly and bigoted inquiry:
We share intelligence gathering with Mossad.
We benefit from Israels thriving R&D industry (particularly in electronics).
We make bigots angry (which is always a plus).

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:02:00 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:


You do know that sometimes people don't feel like dealing with your bullshit?


I do hope you are aware what you call tweakabelle's bullshit, is the same question many are asking, but tweakabelle here has the eloquence and academic ability to stand forth and ask, what many others seek to know, for many do wonder.

But in not wishing to answer someones question by calling it bullshit, it is clear, either one does not know the answer, or one is ashamed of it and wishes it not to be brought into the light.

Which is it ?

And furthermore, will this irrational alliance with a rogue state be America's undoing ?


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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:25:45 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"But to answer your silly and bigoted inquiry: "

In that line you gave more answers than was in your best interest.

"We share intelligence gathering with Mossad. "

Yes, especially when they spy on us. They've been caught at it. Do you think then that they share everything with us ?

"We benefit from Israels thriving R&D industry (particularly in electronics). "

For free ? I doubt it. We don't do it for free.

"We make bigots angry (which is always a plus). "

If that's true then that means that I am not a bigot. Or have you made a false statement ?

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:33:33 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"I made sure you were
aware that we were attacked by unmarked aircraft;"
 
From the accounts I've read the planes were marked. One crewman said that some of the crewmen on deck were waving at them. And an account from an Iraeli pilot stated that some of them questioned the order to attack thinking that is was a mistake, and that one actually refused and got court matialled for it, or whatever they call it.

Perhaps what you read was from someone down below ? Or maybe a watered down version. Hard to say, but I read what I read.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:44:19 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"I do hope you are aware what you call tweakabelle's bullshit, is the same question many are asking, but tweakabelle here has the eloquence and academic ability to stand forth and ask, what many others seek to know, for many do wonder. "

The more the better. If it is bigoted to question and/or condemn the actions of a governemt, does that apply to one who does it in relation to the actions of one's own government ? I'll be watching. Notice we did have something called an anti-sedition act a long time ago. And note the laws in Germany.

One day it will be time to reveal the nefarious acts of the JDL, and a few by the ADL. Not to mention the Rosenbergs. So allies spy on one another ? Do allies plot to bomb things in their ally's countries ? Do allies attack their ally's ships ? Do allies break into government offices of their ally's ? They have been caught doing all these things to the US. What have they done for you lately ?

When it comes to questions, I have plenty.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 7/7/2011 3:45:17 PM >

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:47:58 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Yoiu can only fool all of the people some of the time. "

Yes, that is true. And it is a good thing. Run.

T^T

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 3:50:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Yoiu can only fool all of the people some of the time. "

Yes, that is true. And it is a good thing. Run.

T^T


and the Jewish vote is starting to run...in the right direction.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 4:09:31 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

But to answer your silly and bigoted inquiry:
We share intelligence gathering with Mossad.
We benefit from Israels thriving R&D industry (particularly in electronics).
We make bigots angry (which is always a plus).


Is that it? Is that really the best you can do? Two suggestions - one of which doesn't count - is all the reward the US gets for its alliance with Israel?

Intelligence sharing is the norm across the West in the post 9/11 world. Western Europe and others share intelligence with Mossad. It's not a product of the US-Israel alliance.

The claim was made earlier in the thread that US and Israeli interests were 'pretty much identical'. We can safely throw that claim out of the window now.

And if anyone argues that minor gains from technology sharing justifies the huge cost the US pays for its Israeli alliance - in military, economic political diplomatic and US personnel lives - I'll openly question their sanity.

On the information to date, the only possible conclusion is the US and in particular the US taxpayer is getting taken for a colossal ride by Israel.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/7/2011 4:13:05 PM >

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 4:10:02 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Their lobbying and financial contributions to various causes (normally though not always 'left') aside, since there are only about 7 million Jewish people in the United States, I doubt their vote in any election counts for near as much as some of you claim.They barely outweigh the LDS in terms of population, and at least the Mormons actually control one state, for better or worse.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 4:11:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

And if anyone argues that technology sharing justifies the huge cost the US pays for its Israeli alliance - in military, economic political diplomatic and US personnel lives - I'll openly question their sanity.



Question whatever the fuck you want. There is no question about your bigotry. And you might actually look at how much aid we give Israel compared to Arab countries.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 4:14:36 PM   
FirstQuaker


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Status: offline 		tweakabelle

The neocon 'republicans,' our neoliberals and the corporate 'democrats' aims and those of the Zionist Israelis might be nearly identical but as for the rest of the US , no.

The United States is not nearly the monolithic bloc some people in other countries think.

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RE: Israel: A Lens for Viewing Obama? - 7/7/2011 4:25:13 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I made sure you were
aware that we were attacked by unmarked aircraft;"
 
From the accounts I've read the planes were marked. One crewman said that some of the crewmen on deck were waving at them. And an account from an Iraeli pilot stated that some of them questioned the order to attack thinking that is was a mistake, and that one actually refused and got court matialled for it, or whatever they call it.

Perhaps what you read was from someone down below ? Or maybe a watered down version. Hard to say, but I read what I read.

T^T

I wouldn't know T ^ T. I don't pretend to have a thorough and full account of the incident. (If you have some links handy I'd appreciate them)

Whether the planes were marked or not doesn't seem to me to be the most important issue. From a US perspective, I'd be far more concerned about the US planes already airborne and en route to the defence of the Liberty being ordered to return to base and leaving the Liberty defenceless. That seems to suggest high-level US collusion doesn't it? High level US military collusion in an attack on a US warship should be unthinkable, shouldn't it? The reports of machine gunning the lifeboats are of great concern too - that's a flagrant war crime.

And the basic questions: Why did Israel deliberately attack a US warship? What kind of ally behaves like this? remain unanswered.

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